Question Safe timings for 4x16GB?

SpinningFan

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Dec 23, 2019
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So the issue went as follows: originally, I had a kit of 2x16GB, Ripjaws V 16-18-18-18-38, 3200 MHz RAM. 32 wasn't enough so I bought the very same kit now, a year later (same timing, frequency, just different batch).

At first it wouldn't boot, but that's normal (these kits are not sold as 4x16, so technically, I'm mixing a bit, but it's the very same kit, so, chances are, it's compatible - and it is!), so I troubleshooted a bit. I first disabled XMP which got me safely into Windows. Enabling XMP would get me to Windows only if there's just 3 sticks, 4th stick would prevent it from booting. My final setting after shuffling around the sticks is: new sticks in A1, B1, the old ones in A2, B2. XMP enabled, but the timings increased to 20-20-20-20-40, which I did as a "safe bet" (i.e. being "a much more than the guaranteed timing").

Now I wonder: how can I start decreasing the timings? Which ones are crucial for speed and how am I supposed to do it without having to always turn off the power, take out the last RAM, go to bios, put it back, and put the last stick back? The problem is, that the computer won't even boot if the timings are too tight, so I would always have to take out one stick to get it to boot so I can adjust the settings. I assume this puts some wear on the ram slot and the golden plating on the pins, so I definitely don't wanna do that, but at the same time, I'd like to use it with as tight timings as it allows without instabilities. Is there any tool that would automatically set it to the last "working" number if it doesn't boot?

I hope it's clear what kind of problem I want to solve. If I can't adjust the timings without constantly having to put the stick in and out, I'm good with 20-20-20-20-40.

Maybe, alternatively, I can increase the voltage slightly, and use the marketed timings 16-18-18-18-38 and see if that works. I wasn't able to find out how to increase the voltage in bios. I guess that's not something one should mess around with too much (perhaps it lowers the lifespan of the sticks?)

By the way, I've never heard of this, but in my bios, there's this..."parameter" (?) called "DRAM MFG ID". The older sticks say "Samsung", newer say "Hynix". I guess that would be the manufacturer for that particular kit?
 

Zerk2012

Titan
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So the issue went as follows: originally, I had a kit of 2x16GB, Ripjaws V 16-18-18-18-38, 3200 MHz RAM. 32 wasn't enough so I bought the very same kit now, a year later (same timing, frequency, just different batch).

At first it wouldn't boot, but that's normal (these kits are not sold as 4x16, so technically, I'm mixing a bit, but it's the very same kit, so, chances are, it's compatible - and it is!), so I troubleshooted a bit. I first disabled XMP which got me safely into Windows. Enabling XMP would get me to Windows only if there's just 3 sticks, 4th stick would prevent it from booting. My final setting after shuffling around the sticks is: new sticks in A1, B1, the old ones in A2, B2. XMP enabled, but the timings increased to 20-20-20-20-40, which I did as a "safe bet" (i.e. being "a much more than the guaranteed timing").

Now I wonder: how can I start decreasing the timings? Which ones are crucial for speed and how am I supposed to do it without having to always turn off the power, take out the last RAM, go to bios, put it back, and put the last stick back? The problem is, that the computer won't even boot if the timings are too tight, so I would always have to take out one stick to get it to boot so I can adjust the settings. I assume this puts some wear on the ram slot and the golden plating on the pins, so I definitely don't wanna do that, but at the same time, I'd like to use it with as tight timings as it allows without instabilities. Is there any tool that would automatically set it to the last "working" number if it doesn't boot?

I hope it's clear what kind of problem I want to solve. If I can't adjust the timings without constantly having to put the stick in and out, I'm good with 20-20-20-20-40.

Maybe, alternatively, I can increase the voltage slightly, and use the marketed timings 16-18-18-18-38 and see if that works. I wasn't able to find out how to increase the voltage in bios. I guess that's not something one should mess around with too much (perhaps it lowers the lifespan of the sticks?)

By the way, I've never heard of this, but in my bios, there's this..."parameter" (?) called "DRAM MFG ID". The older sticks say "Samsung", newer say "Hynix". I guess that would be the manufacturer for that particular kit?
Increase the voltage to 1.4 and try the advertised speed and timing.

Samsung and Hynix are who made the chips for the memory.
 

SpinningFan

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Dec 23, 2019
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I guess I should add that I use aorus x570 elite (wifi). The trouble is, that I cannot find how to up the voltage in my bios. Is it in the same section where I change the timings?
 

SpinningFan

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Dec 23, 2019
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Update: I found the voltage setting (right on the main page about RAMs). I raised it to 1.4V but actually, the lowest timing with which I managed to boot is still 20-20-20-20-20-40. Even 18-20-20-20-20-40 won't post. I guess what I found initially is really the best I can get, so I put the voltage back to 1.35V (no reason to run at a higher voltage if the system is stable with default xmp).
 

Zerk2012

Titan
Ambassador
Update: I found the voltage setting (right on the main page about RAMs). I raised it to 1.4V but actually, the lowest timing with which I managed to boot is still 20-20-20-20-20-40. Even 18-20-20-20-20-40 won't post. I guess what I found initially is really the best I can get, so I put the voltage back to 1.35V (no reason to run at a higher voltage if the system is stable with default xmp).
Yes you have 2 different types of memory that's just not playing nice together.
 

SpinningFan

Prominent
Dec 23, 2019
46
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540
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Yes you have 2 different types of memory that's just not playing nice together.
But they are both essentially the same: timings, little codes, frequency...except two modules say "January 2020" and the other "December 2020". Is this such a difference that it can't run at the advertised timings anymore?
 
Dec 26, 2020
22
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15
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So the issue went as follows: originally, I had a kit of 2x16GB, Ripjaws V 16-18-18-18-38, 3200 MHz RAM. 32 wasn't enough so I bought the very same kit now, a year later (same timing, frequency, just different batch).

At first it wouldn't boot, but that's normal (these kits are not sold as 4x16, so technically, I'm mixing a bit, but it's the very same kit, so, chances are, it's compatible - and it is!), so I troubleshooted a bit. I first disabled XMP which got me safely into Windows. Enabling XMP would get me to Windows only if there's just 3 sticks, 4th stick would prevent it from booting. My final setting after shuffling around the sticks is: new sticks in A1, B1, the old ones in A2, B2. XMP enabled, but the timings increased to 20-20-20-20-40, which I did as a "safe bet" (i.e. being "a much more than the guaranteed timing").

Now I wonder: how can I start decreasing the timings? Which ones are crucial for speed and how am I supposed to do it without having to always turn off the power, take out the last RAM, go to bios, put it back, and put the last stick back? The problem is, that the computer won't even boot if the timings are too tight, so I would always have to take out one stick to get it to boot so I can adjust the settings. I assume this puts some wear on the ram slot and the golden plating on the pins, so I definitely don't wanna do that, but at the same time, I'd like to use it with as tight timings as it allows without instabilities. Is there any tool that would automatically set it to the last "working" number if it doesn't boot?

I hope it's clear what kind of problem I want to solve. If I can't adjust the timings without constantly having to put the stick in and out, I'm good with 20-20-20-20-40.

Maybe, alternatively, I can increase the voltage slightly, and use the marketed timings 16-18-18-18-38 and see if that works. I wasn't able to find out how to increase the voltage in bios. I guess that's not something one should mess around with too much (perhaps it lowers the lifespan of the sticks?)

By the way, I've never heard of this, but in my bios, there's this..."parameter" (?) called "DRAM MFG ID". The older sticks say "Samsung", newer say "Hynix". I guess that would be the manufacturer for that particular kit?
" Which ones are crucial for speed and how am I supposed to do it without having to always turn off the power". Answering this.The first timming, the CL timming (what i understand) are the numbers of cycles that the memory delays to deliver a data. So if you have a memory working at 3200 Mhz you will have (3200x10^6)/20 = 160x10^6 datas delivered in a second. Working at the xmp timmings, you'll have (3200x10^6)/16=200x10^6 datas delivered in a second. So you would be working 25% faster than a 20 CL timming.I think this is the most important timming where you should look at. What i understand and what i have read in other cases, you maybe should look to get some 4 x 16 kit that works at CL 16 (the first timming) to keep the same speed as your 2x16 GB kit with cl 16. In this case you would be working 25 % slower with that 20CL speed.
Also i don't i dont really know if that 25% faster data deliver will traduce in a big improve in perfomance. Maybe someone that have tested it can tell you. Talking in "theorical"terms you have 25% more of data deliver.
But they are both essentially the same: timings, little codes, frequency...except two modules say "January 2020" and the other "December 2020". Is this such a difference that it can't run at the advertised timings anymore?
Answering this. I think if the manufacture tested those memorys with 2x kits working at that advertised memory and looking that you just have bought those 2x16 kits x 2 with a difference of 12 months and you mixed them and you can't make them work at the advertised timmings then i think there is something in the way they manufacture the memorys that it doesn't let you mix 2 kits of 2x16 gb and work at the advertised timmings. The real thruth you maybe can get it from an electronic engineer that works with hardware. I am not the right one. I think thats why there exists 2x kits and 4x kits. You never can manufacture exactly the same thing in 2 different process.

I hope this helps you
 
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