Save scumming...

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Hi!

Personally I'd never be able to play a roguelike while save-scumming -
I hate it because for me it takes _all_ the excitement out of the
game. On the other hand I can understand that folks can get very
frustrated when losing a character after many hours of play due to a
bug or stupid mistake - so I would never actively try to prevent them
from save-scumming.

My only reaction is to not include a "save game and continue" feature
- if you want to play against the rules of roguelikes, please do so,
but live with the fact that you have to take a little extra effort to
preserve your saved game. AFAIC roguelikes are basically games without
a second chance - which makes for a very different experience compared
to standard RPGs.

Thomas Biskup
ADOM Maintainer
http://www.adom.de
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Thomas Biskup" <thomas.biskup@gmx.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:3885dfa5.0502090338.3d04710a@posting.google.com...

The Creator!

/me prays

> Personally I'd never be able to play a roguelike while save-scumming -
> I hate it because for me it takes _all_ the excitement out of the
> game. On the other hand I can understand that folks can get very
> frustrated when losing a character after many hours of play due to a
> bug or stupid mistake - so I would never actively try to prevent them
> from save-scumming.

I savescummed a lot in ADOM ... It was mainly for the first 10-12 char...
Just to learn!

> My only reaction is to not include a "save game and continue" feature
> - if you want to play against the rules of roguelikes, please do so,
> but live with the fact that you have to take a little extra effort to
> preserve your saved game. AFAIC roguelikes are basically games without
> a second chance - which makes for a very different experience compared
> to standard RPGs.

Quote...

So ther won't be any SS control inside the game?
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

IMHO it's kind of annoying to lose 4 consecutive 90% sure winners to
blackouts or system crashes. But maybe thats just me. 🙁



"Thomas Biskup" <thomas.biskup@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:3885dfa5.0502090338.3d04710a@posting.google.com...
> Hi!
>
> Personally I'd never be able to play a roguelike while save-scumming -
> I hate it because for me it takes _all_ the excitement out of the
> game. On the other hand I can understand that folks can get very
> frustrated when losing a character after many hours of play due to a
> bug or stupid mistake - so I would never actively try to prevent them
> from save-scumming.
>
> My only reaction is to not include a "save game and continue" feature
> - if you want to play against the rules of roguelikes, please do so,
> but live with the fact that you have to take a little extra effort to
> preserve your saved game. AFAIC roguelikes are basically games without
> a second chance - which makes for a very different experience compared
> to standard RPGs.
>
> Thomas Biskup
> ADOM Maintainer
> http://www.adom.de
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

rutku wrote:
> Thomas Biskup wrote in message
>> Hi!
>>
>> Personally I'd never be able to play a roguelike while save-scumming -
>> I hate it because for me it takes _all_ the excitement out of the
>> game. On the other hand I can understand that folks can get very
>> frustrated when losing a character after many hours of play due to a
>> bug or stupid mistake - so I would never actively try to prevent them
>> from save-scumming.
>>
>> My only reaction is to not include a "save game and continue" feature
>> - if you want to play against the rules of roguelikes, please do so,
>> but live with the fact that you have to take a little extra effort to
>> preserve your saved game. AFAIC roguelikes are basically games without
>> a second chance - which makes for a very different experience compared
>> to standard RPGs.
>>
> IMHO it's kind of annoying to lose 4 consecutive 90% sure winners to
> blackouts or system crashes. But maybe thats just me. 🙁

Yeah, that's just you, cause I never had a winning character ;-) I agree
that it can be annoying, but on the other hand the reason why I still play
adom is that I was never able to win up to now. I lost some PCs to
blackouts and to bugs, but still I like it the way it is right now, makes
it really challenging.

PS: Please put the post you are referring to on the top of your message.

--
If today is the first day of the rest of your life, what the hell was
yesterday?

rgra bug list: http://adombugs.100free.com/
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On 9 Feb 2005 03:38:13 -0800, Thomas Biskup wrote:

> My only reaction is to not include a "save game and continue" feature
> - if you want to play against the rules of roguelikes, please do so,
> but live with the fact that you have to take a little extra effort to
> preserve your saved game. AFAIC roguelikes are basically games without
> a second chance - which makes for a very different experience compared
> to standard RPGs.

Bear in mind that ADOM is due to bugs (as any software product, it is
not supposed to by any nitpicking thing or whatever) and crashes from
time to time. It is very frustrating to lose a character (independently
on his/her level and lucky rolls during the game) because of the game
crash.

How about an auto-save option triggered every, say, 500 turns or every
fifteen minutes IRL; auto saves would, obviously, auto-deleted after one
quits/saves the game successfuly.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

rutku <kaarmejamies@hotmail.com> wrote...
> IMHO it's kind of annoying to lose 4 consecutive 90% sure winners to
> blackouts or system crashes. But maybe thats just me. 🙁

While I've never been so lucky as to have 4 consecutive close-to-sure
winners, I understand how it would be annoying. FWIW, though, no-one
seems to regard it as save-scumming if you back up your character in
case of a crash and then restore it should you suffer a blackout/Signal
291/similar.

Love and coffee,
Frances
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Frances Moffatt wrote:
> rutku <kaarmejamies@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
>>IMHO it's kind of annoying to lose 4 consecutive 90% sure winners to
>>blackouts or system crashes. But maybe thats just me. 🙁
>
>
> While I've never been so lucky as to have 4 consecutive close-to-sure
> winners, I understand how it would be annoying. FWIW, though, no-one
> seems to regard it as save-scumming if you back up your character in
> case of a crash and then restore it should you suffer a blackout/Signal
> 291/similar.

Seconded.

And since I don't think I've said that earlier: Welcome back, Frances.

Malte
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"Frances Moffatt" <torrain@yeahright.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:nZgQd.4408$dZ.236800@news20.bellglobal.com...
> rutku <kaarmejamies@hotmail.com> wrote...
>> IMHO it's kind of annoying to lose 4 consecutive 90% sure winners to
>> blackouts or system crashes. But maybe thats just me. 🙁
>
> While I've never been so lucky as to have 4 consecutive close-to-sure
> winners, I understand how it would be annoying. FWIW, though, no-one
> seems to regard it as save-scumming if you back up your character in
> case of a crash and then restore it should you suffer a blackout/Signal
> 291/similar.
>

No amount of back-up helps a HD crash! I had a cornucopia of characters
created on The Creator's birthday (Is that wrong? I don't care.) Lost them
all to HD crash.

I agree with Frances. Back-up is not save-scumming. In the end, the player
is the harshest judge.

As to scumming to learn/finish the game: I scummed five years ago with that
intent and felt "dirty" from it. Like Thomas said, roguelikes are games
without a second chance. I've yet to experience a RPG that gets my geek
adrenaline pumping like ADOM does.

As to finishing the game...still on a quest to do so.

BTW, glad to see some familiar faces here mixed in with all the newcomers!
Best NG!

Greg Howard
5YQ
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:42:16 -0800, Greg Howard wrote:

> No amount of back-up helps a HD crash! I had a cornucopia of characters
> created on The Creator's birthday (Is that wrong? I don't care.) Lost them
> all to HD crash.

If you have valuable data backups are precisely what helps after a HD
crash! Backups of the HD, not your ADOM savegames that is.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

"frobnoid" <frobnoid@orders2.tmok.com> wrote in message
news😛an.2005.02.18.23.49.29.335917@orders2.tmok.com...
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:42:16 -0800, Greg Howard wrote:
>
>> No amount of back-up helps a HD crash! I had a cornucopia of characters
>> created on The Creator's birthday (Is that wrong? I don't care.) Lost
>> them
>> all to HD crash.
>
> If you have valuable data backups are precisely what helps after a HD
> crash! Backups of the HD, not your ADOM savegames that is.
>
Yeah. Learned that lesson! Zip drive installed. Burn data to CD now
monthly.

Greg Howard
5YQ
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

> How about an auto-save option triggered every, say, 500 turns or every
> fifteen minutes IRL; auto saves would, obviously, auto-deleted after one
> quits/saves the game successfuly.
>

Well, actually i -DO- save at almost regular intervals and backup my
savegame. The only thing you have to do is adhere to the rules of
Roguelike games and delete your savegame backup when your char dies or
you quit. Savegame backups, IMO, are STRICTLY done to avoid ADOM crashes
or bugs. That's my point of view, and i've savescummed a lot of times,
both to get good results from pools and to "revive" my char after he
died. My first victory was without savescumming, and it felt -good-...
After all, adhering to the rules in a game that allows for cheating
(both in savegame backups and in item duplication through file
overwriting) is a matter of personal freedom. I choose not to do it, and
i feel better whenever i can beat the game. I cheated, scummed
savefiles, duplicated items, used adombot (recently), but it is a
flavorless victory... I love it much more whenever i can beat the game
on its terms...

Well, forgive me for the bad english, but as usual i'm half-drunk...
Hope someone can get some insight from what i've written...

Madriker
 
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