Science at deity level.

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

Anyone got any tips for managing science at deity level.

The start of the game seems straightforward.

Research the first few techs at 90% science. As soon as you have contact
with several AI civs put the slider to 10% science and accumulate cash. When
you have a decent cash stockpile, (500+ gold), trade cash + world map to as
many civs as possible during one turn. This nets about 4 - 5 techs each time
and keeps you in touching distance of the AI during the early game.

After this the AI seems to gallop over the horizon. I can't generate enough
cash to keep up in techs. I can't research fast enough to keep up with the
AI, and I'm not usually militarily strong enough to extort techs as part of
a peace deal. I've not really experimented with turning citizens into
scientists.

Thoughts welcome.

Phil.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Phil Wells" <phil-m.wells@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:BGl2d.290$YE3.41@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...

> Research the first few techs at 90% science. As soon as you have contact
> with several AI civs put the slider to 10% science and accumulate cash. When
> you have a decent cash stockpile, (500+ gold), trade cash + world map to as
> many civs as possible during one turn. This nets about 4 - 5 techs each time
> and keeps you in touching distance of the AI during the early game.
>
> After this the AI seems to gallop over the horizon. I can't generate enough
> cash to keep up in techs. I can't research fast enough to keep up with the
> AI, and I'm not usually militarily strong enough to extort techs as part of
> a peace deal. I've not really experimented with turning citizens into
> scientists.

From my point of view it's not that bad a thing that AI if far ahead of me
until the arrival of Modern Era. Whenever I need a new tech for the next
city improvement it's already available for sale at discount price. I can
even choose who gets my money. Admittedly, I could probably never pull off
diplomatic victory, and always never space race victory. I simply turn them
off. But again, IMHO deity is for full scale modern wars, because at
lower levels AI is completely out of steam before they could get to Stealth
or Robotics.

Being the whole era behind in science is not the end of the game, not even close.
It's far more important if world powers could still be balanced.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:18:57 GMT Phil Wells <phil-m.wells@ntlworld.com>
wrote in message <BGl2d.290$YE3.41@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>...

> Anyone got any tips for managing science at deity level.
>
> The start of the game seems straightforward.
>
> Research the first few techs at 90% science. As soon as you have contact
> with several AI civs put the slider to 10% science and accumulate cash.
> When you have a decent cash stockpile, (500+ gold), trade cash + world map
> to as many civs as possible during one turn. This nets about 4 - 5 techs
> each time and keeps you in touching distance of the AI during the early
> game.

I normally put the slider on the lowest it can be to give me my one
lightbulb per turn - That's usually 20-30% at game start, dropping to 10%
later. I also research the most expensive tech available to me, usually
alphabet or a second level tech for which I have the prerequisites.

During the rapid expansion phase, you don't need tech, as you can make do
with warriors and need build no improvements, although spearmen, temples,
and granaries are nice if you have them.

When rapid expansion ends, you should have made contact, and can trade for
tech.

> After this the AI seems to gallop over the horizon. I can't generate
> enough cash to keep up in techs. I can't research fast enough to keep up
> with the AI, and I'm not usually militarily strong enough to extort techs
> as part of a peace deal. I've not really experimented with turning
> citizens into scientists.
>
> Thoughts welcome.

Let them gallop. While in despotism, accumulate cash. Use it to buy
workers whenever they are available, and tech *only when you need it*, i.e.,
when you run out of improvements to build. As soon as you change
governments, use your cash to rushbuild improvements, concentrating on those
that most improve the shield- and commerce-productivity of your cities.
Note that this includes improvements that help your cities to grow, and
support them when they get larger. In fact, it includes all improvements
except science and military. Scientific improvements are valuable for the
culture, and should be built next (or perhaps earlier in culturally
vulnerable border cities). Military not at all, unless you are planning a
war, (see below).

Treat your civ like a corporation that reinvests all its profits into
increasing it's productivity - squeezing every last dime out of its current
technical knowhow, before acquiring new knowledge.

Depart from this plan if a neighbour is on the ropes and you decide you want
a piece of the action. Also keep an eye on even distant civs to see if any
are on the brink of elimination. (The easy way to check this, if you can't
see all of their cities, is to see what cities they have on the trade
screen.) Then 1. Renegotiate the peace, and see what you can extort. 2.
Buy as much tech from them as possible, paying by the turn. Chances are you
won't have to pay for very many turns.

Also depart from this plan if the next available city improvement is many
techs away, for example, after you've acquired monotheism. As each city
completes it's cathedral, build walls (on your borders) and barracks, then
switch to your best mobile attacking unit, which at this stage is horsemen
(or an equivalent or better UU) in preparation for attacking a powerful
neighbour.

Here's where all that investment pays off. Your high shield productivity
enables you to ramp up military production. Your high commerce productivity
means you can buy allies. You may have to hunker down for several turns
until his offensive capability is eliminated. Then you start taking him
out, one city at a time. A dozen horsemen will easily take out cities
defended by pikemen. Fifteen or so will take out most defended by
musketmen. Most of your losing units will survive and you will easily be
able to replace the rest.

Don't eliminate him. Make peace before he is eliminated (even if it means
blockading your allies from his last city, until you can cancel your
alliance). Then you can extort. You've got two choices. If he's not at
war with anyone, or if he is, and you're prepared to maintain the blockade
to keep him alive, then you can keep him as a tech cow, for as long as you
can continue to milk him. Alternatively you can buy as much as possible
from him, paying by the turn, then leave him to his fate.

The techs you want during the middle ages are all along the top branch of
the tree. Banking is crucial. Democracy is wonderful, though C3C has
trimmed its benefits to a considerable degree. Education will give give you
a useful cultural boost. When this branch is exhausted, you may want to go
to war again. If you have managed to acquire Chivalry, then use knights,
which in sufficient number are good against even riflemen. Otherwise limit
yourself to an opponent who has only musketmen, and get chivalry from him.

> Phil.

--
Daran

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James D. Nicoll


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Phil Wells" <phil-m.wells@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:BGl2d.290$YE3.41@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Anyone got any tips for managing science at deity level.
>
> The start of the game seems straightforward.
>
> Research the first few techs at 90% science. As soon as you have contact
> with several AI civs put the slider to 10% science and accumulate cash. When
> you have a decent cash stockpile, (500+ gold), trade cash + world map to as
> many civs as possible during one turn. This nets about 4 - 5 techs each time
> and keeps you in touching distance of the AI during the early game.
>
> After this the AI seems to gallop over the horizon. I can't generate enough
> cash to keep up in techs. I can't research fast enough to keep up with the
> AI, and I'm not usually militarily strong enough to extort techs as part of
> a peace deal. I've not really experimented with turning citizens into
> scientists.

As a result of some experiments on Deity level I come to the conclusion
that my best friend is what I call "incomplete trade". I play peacefully
first half of the game and can only trade. When I trade, I attach certain
strings to technology purchase, and choose those attachments so that
AI will probably forfeit the deal before I paid the full price.

Consider a trade:

They give me: I give them
Furs 250 gold per turn
Education
Gunpowder

If the AI is unable to deliver Furs on the next turn, the deal is off,
and nobody blames me. The only result in this case is that I promised
to pay 250 gold/turn x 20 turns = 5000 gold, but paid only a fraction.
Of course, it is possible to interrupt trades by simply
destroying the roads, say around my capital. That would be
plain cheating from my point of view.

Instead, I dispatch an observer (a scout or a horsemen) to the theatre
of military action and wait till a city which controls the supply of Furs
is about to change its owner. Then I make a deal like the one described above.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:55:43 GMT alex <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
message <Pkn9d.8190$nj.5057@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...

> Consider a trade:
>
> They give me: I give them
> Furs 250 gold per turn
> Education
> Gunpowder
>
> If the AI is unable to deliver Furs on the next turn, the deal is off,
> and nobody blames me...

My understanding is that they do blame you no matter what the reason for the
broken trade.

However a similar exploit is to buy techs from a civ, just before it is
eliminated.

--
Daran

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James D. Nicoll
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Daran" <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote in message news:h64m32-ia9.ln1@wheresmeshirt.clara.net...
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 02:55:43 GMT alex <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> message <Pkn9d.8190$nj.5057@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>...
>
> > Consider a trade:
> >
> > They give me: I give them
> > Furs 250 gold per turn
> > Education
> > Gunpowder
> >
> > If the AI is unable to deliver Furs on the next turn, the deal is off,
> > and nobody blames me...
>
> My understanding is that they do blame you no matter what the reason for the
> broken trade.

Nope. They do blame me if I failed to deliver my part of the trade for
whatever reason. Would I promise to trade, say silks for furs, and lost
trade connection, then indeed, my reputation will take a deep dive. You are
right, in this case it would not matter if roads and harbors were
destroyed on AI side and it was not my failure at all. But should this
trade be cancelled due to inability of AI to deliver furs because
they lost their entire suuply of furs, and not due to trade route
interruption, then I am not the one to be blamed. Note that unlike in
the former trade I was _still able_ to deliver what I promised.

> However a similar exploit is to buy techs from a civ, just before it is
> eliminated.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:41:56 GMT alex <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
message <oDdad.1634$6q2.525@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...

> "Daran" <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote in message
> news:h64m32-ia9.ln1@wheresmeshirt.clara.net...

> > My understanding is that they do blame you no matter what the reason for
> > the broken trade.
>
> Nope. They do blame me if I failed to deliver my part of the trade for
> whatever reason. Would I promise to trade, say silks for furs, and lost
> trade connection, then indeed, my reputation will take a deep dive. You are
> right, in this case it would not matter if roads and harbors were
> destroyed on AI side and it was not my failure at all. But should this
> trade be cancelled due to inability of AI to deliver furs because
> they lost their entire suuply of furs, and not due to trade route
> interruption, then I am not the one to be blamed. Note that unlike in
> the former trade I was _still able_ to deliver what I promised.

Have you tested this? I remember asking the very same question and getting
a reply to the effect of my comment above.

If they indeed do not blame you if you are the one buying the resource, then
this would be very easy to exploit.

--
Daran

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
unconscious and riffle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James D. Nicoll


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.civ3 (More info?)

"Daran" <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote in message news:cpto32-7og.ln1@wheresmeshirt.clara.net...
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 16:41:56 GMT alex <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> message <oDdad.1634$6q2.525@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>...
>
> > "Daran" <daranSPAMg@lineone.net> wrote in message
> > news:h64m32-ia9.ln1@wheresmeshirt.clara.net...
>
> > > My understanding is that they do blame you no matter what the reason for
> > > the broken trade.
> >
> > Nope. They do blame me if I failed to deliver my part of the trade for
> > whatever reason. Would I promise to trade, say silks for furs, and lost
> > trade connection, then indeed, my reputation will take a deep dive. You are
> > right, in this case it would not matter if roads and harbors were
> > destroyed on AI side and it was not my failure at all. But should this
> > trade be cancelled due to inability of AI to deliver furs because
> > they lost their entire suuply of furs, and not due to trade route
> > interruption, then I am not the one to be blamed. Note that unlike in
> > the former trade I was _still able_ to deliver what I promised.
>
> Have you tested this? I remember asking the very same question and getting
> a reply to the effect of my comment above.

Yes, I have tested it (c3c 1.22). The simplest way to verify it, is to
wait till all your export obligations expired, then place a stack of workers
and warriors on a tile next to your capital. Destroy all other roads around
your capital in advance.

Now purchase tech+luxuiry for gpt. Wake a warrior and destroy the last
road. The deal is immeditely off. Wake as many warkers as you need to
rebuild the road. Trade connection reappears, now you can 'buy' your next
tech. AI is eagerly willing to repeat the deal, does not blame you
at all. Repeat until you are out of workers. On the next turn the
craziness will continue, in fact AI attitude toward you will rapidly
improve because it thinks that you trade with them a lot (indeed you do).


> If they indeed do not blame you if you are the one buying the resource, then
> this would be very easy to exploit.

In real game of course I do not want to acquire techs this way
(although it's very tempting I must admit). However there are several
situations when I believe that such a purchase is perfectly legal,
namely when I take no action whatsoever to interrupt the trade.
Some of them include:

Ancient trade over volatile seashore routes.
(they did such things to me all the time. I abandoned the practice
of selling my own resources over such routes long time ago)

Loss of resource by AI in war
(hey, I defend my resources, or refrain from selling them if I can not)

Nuclear age trade
(I refrain from export agreements unless AI does have both harbor
and airport in the capital. The opposite case of land-locked capital
with no airport and aluminum next to it begs for exploiting).