News Scramble to Validate Superconductor Breakthrough Confirms Zero Resistance, With a Catch

[Admin]

Chinese researchers have announced in a video that they've verified LK-99's ability to conduct current with zero resistance, but questions still linger.

Scramble to Validate Superconductor Breakthrough Confirms Zero Resistance, With a Catch : Read more

 

[JTWrenn]

Sounds like a one step forward but not an incredible leap. That is how these things usually go so we should be happy about this not sad that we didn't get some crazy breakthrough. They will learn from this, and iterate and get it closer and closer to room temp.

 

[InvalidError]

Sounds like a one step forward but not an incredible leap. That is how these things usually go so we should be happy about this not sad that we didn't get some crazy breakthrough. They will learn from this, and iterate and get it closer and closer to room temp.

I'm not too sure about the "learning" part as a massive chunk of material science is just throwing everything at the wall and see if anything useful comes out of it. Many a material revolution were simply due to forgetting/neglecting to clean up after an experiment and coming back to a surprise or a failed experiment for which someone happens to have an idea for like 3M's super-glue failure that became the famous Post-It adhesive. Once something promising pops up, the real science of figuring out how to make it cost-effectively at-scale begins.

 

[Deleted member 2731765]

I like the concept. But first thing to be noted is that, LK-99 comes from the two arXiv papers, which have not been peer-reviewed.

Both papers include a data plot detailing LK-99’s magnetic properties. Both plots were sourced from the same dataset and should thus be identical—but the plot in one paper has a y-axis with a scale that is about 7,000 times larger than the other. So there is kind of inconsistency here.

We just need to exercise caution here.

[2307.12008] The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor

arxiv.org

[2307.12037] Superconductor Pb$_{10-x}$Cu$_x$(PO$_4$)$_6$O showing levitation at room temperature and atmospheric pressure and mechanism

arxiv.org

And, as you can see in this video demonstration, the researchers position a piece of LK-99 over a magnet. One edge of the flat disk of LK-99 rises, but the other edge appears to maintain contact with the magnet.

Naturally, one would expect a superconductor to display full levitation and also “quantum locking” which keeps it in a fixed position relative to the magnet. But the behavior I see in the video may be due to imperfections in the sample, meaning only part of the sample becomes superconductive.

Observe the LK-99 material, it is actually not completely floating over the magnet, and only one side is being repelled. It is not totally clear if the other side is magnetic, or dropping down from gravity since it is not superconductive.

This is a point of contention.

So it is too early to say we have been presented with compelling evidence for room-temperature superconductivity. There rises a concern that some of the results could be explained by errors in experimental procedure combined with imperfections in the LK-99 sample.

I mean, although, while the LK-99 crystal does exhibit "diamagnetism", its magnetic levitation capability is relatively weak and does not possess complete “zero resistance.”

The behavior is kind of reminiscent of a semiconductor curve. But in any case, even if LK-99 demonstrates superconducting properties, they likely exist in trace amounts and cannot form a continuous superconducting path.

Some of the recent research findings which I just read online, indicate that the material’s resistance at room temperature is not zero, and magnetic levitation has not been observed. So does LK-99 exhibits characteristics more akin to a semiconductor rather than a superconductor ??

Though, superconductors aren’t the only things that float above magnets—graphite, for example, also levitates.

Or, it might be possible that the "partial" magnetic levitation illustrated in the paper is just an illusion generated by another magnet that’s outside the frame of the image, pointing to the fact that the object isn’t fully levitating, most likely due to imperfections in the LK-99 material, where parts of the substance are in a superconductive state while other parts are not ?

https://sciencecast.org/casts/suc384jly50n

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Even at -163 °C, that's something.

That's not too bad if it's at normal Atmosphere.

Liquid Nitrogen Cooling that OC enthusiasts tend to use for OC benchmarks can get down to -195 °C.

And LN² isn't all that hard to acquire.

If you need to super charge a small specific core to get SuperConductivity, you could probably incentivize a group to make a Constantly running server PC with a LARGE LN² tank.

 

[InvalidError]

Even at -163 °C, that's something.

If it does work at -163C, then its biggest benefit would be not requiring any exotic materials assuming it can withstand the current and magnetic flux densities for a given application.

If you need to super charge a small specific core to get SuperConductivity, you could probably incentivize a group to make a Constantly running server PC with a LARGE LN² tank.

If you are going to run something constantly under LN2, it may be cheaper long-term to get an appropriate heat pump to re-condense your LN2 like some MRI operators do to lower their LHe costs.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Both papers include a data plot detailing LK-99’s magnetic properties. Both plots were sourced from the same dataset and should thus be identical—but the plot in one paper has a y-axis with a scale that is about 7,000 times larger than the other. So there is kind of inconsistency here.

In one of the papers, they Y-axis units are listed as 10^(-4) emu/g. In the equivalent plot in thr other paper, the units are just emu/g.

Putting units + numerical labels together, the difference in Y axis values between the plots in the two papers is only ~50%.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The main reason specialty fiber cables cost so much is low volume. The cable itself would likely come down to $15-20 if everyone needed some for everything.

I concur, most of the cost are the transceivers on either end for lengthy connections.

If it does work at -163C, then its biggest benefit would be not requiring any exotic materials assuming it can withstand the current and magnetic flux densities for a given application.

Yup, if it works at normal atmosphere but at -163 °C, I'd be pretty stoked that it doesn't need a specialized pressure vessel. LN² is already common enough as is, somebody is going to make it work running on a consistent LN² supply.

If you are going to run something constantly under LN2, it may be cheaper long-term to get an appropriate heat pump to re-condense your LN2 like some MRI operators do to lower their LHe costs.

Or MRI's can move over to this new SuperConductor material and only have to use LN² instead of LHe.
That's on top of using the Heat pump to Re-Condense the LN².

Helium is getting rarer over time and is going to become a critical resource farely soon.

The world is running out of helium. Here's why doctors are worried.

The fate of America’s largest supply of helium is up in the air

Helium Shortage 4.0: What caused it and when will it end?

 

[evdjj3j]

I concur, most of the cost are the transceivers on either end for lengthy connections.


Yup, if it works at normal atmosphere but at -163 °C, I'd be pretty stoked that it doesn't need a specialized pressure vessel. LN² is already common enough as is, somebody is going to make it work running on a consistent LN² supply.


Or MRI's can move over to this new SuperConductor material and only have to use LN² instead of LHe.
That's on top of using the Heat pump to Re-Condense the LN².

Helium is getting rarer over time and is going to become a critical resource farely soon.

The world is running out of helium. Here's why doctors are worried.

The fate of America’s largest supply of helium is up in the air

Helium Shortage 4.0: What caused it and when will it end?

There are already high temp low pressure superconductors that work with LN2.

High-temperature superconductivity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[InvalidError]

There are already high temp low pressure superconductors that work with LN2.

And most of those require either rare elements like Strontium, Lanthanum, Titanium or Cerium, or absurdly high pressure (1000+ atmospheres) that you cannot really use anywhere outside a lab. Neodymium will likely join the list of unaffordable metals that need to be avoided as much as possible soon enough.

For a superconductor revolution to really occur, we need it to be relatively affordable and not require exotic cooling like a constant supply of LN2. If a refined version of LK-99 can be made to work at -40C - high enough that normal coolants and heat pumps can be used - then the superconductor age may really take off.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There are already high temp low pressure superconductors that work with LN2.

You're right, but the formulations for the existing ones seem more complex & expensive in terms of raw materials than what is being proposed.

Hg12Tl3Ba30Ca30Cu45O127 {Mercury Thallium Barium Calcium Copper Oxide}
Bi2Sr2Ca2Cu3O10 (BSCCO) {Bismuth Strontium Calcium Copper Oxide}
YBa2Cu3O7 (YBCO) {Yttrium Barium Copper Oxide}

vs

As a reminder, LK-99 is a compound of lanarkite [Pb₂SO₅] and copper phosphide [Cu₃P] baked within a 4-day, multi-step, small batch, solid-state synthesis process that was nevertheless also achieved over a Russian kitchen counter.

Lead, Sulfur, Oxygen, Copper, Phosporus

If this formulation could lead to "Cheap to Mass Produce" 'High Temp Ambient Room Pressure' SuperConductors that can work with LN2, I'd be happy.

It's a step in the right direction.

 

[Johntron_]

The scientific community is still scrambling to confirm the recent revolutionary claim by Chinese scientists that they have created a room-temperature, ambient-pressure superconductor.

This first sentence is misleading or at least confusing. LK-99 was conceived and supposedly created by South Korean researchers. Many other researchers are now trying to replicate. The paper you linked to is not the original source of LK-99's formulation.

 

[evdjj3j]

And most of those require either rare elements like Strontium, Lanthanum, Titanium or Cerium, or absurdly high pressure (1000+ atmospheres) that you cannot really use anywhere outside a lab. Neodymium will likely join the list of unaffordable metals that need to be avoided as much as possible soon enough.

For a superconductor revolution to really occur, we need it to be relatively affordable and not require exotic cooling like a constant supply of LN2. If a refined version of LK-99 can be made to work at -40C - high enough that normal coolants and heat pumps can be used - then the superconductor age may really take off.

Most but not all. There are a few that don't require high pressure. LN2 is not exotic, overclockers play with it all the time and MRIs use it every day.

 

[InvalidError]

Most but not all. There are a few that don't require high pressure. LN2 is not exotic, overclockers play with it all the time and MRIs use it every day.

It is exotic in the sense that it requires specialized equipment to supply it in meaningful quantities. You won't be slapping an LN2 generator/condenser on an EV, plane or even train any time soon. You aren't going to be running one at home to self-supply the amount you would be consuming if you had to operate all your stuff at -170C either.

BTW, MRI machines still use liquid helium for the primary field magnet because the properties of low-temperature superconductors are better known, metallic superconductors are easy to shape in whatever shapes are needed and don't require as exotic materials as "high-temperature" ones. If you read about an MRI machine using LN2, it is usually for the phase array and accessories.

 

[lmcnabney]

Expensive material components + operating temps that require liquid N2 = nothingburger.
There are obviously benefits to superconducting traces, but just adding more parallel processing can deliver the same boost for much less money. Maybe they can find some applications in space/orbit.

 

[TechyIT223]

In one of the papers, they Y-axis units are listed as 10^(-4) emu/g. In the equivalent plot in thr other paper, the units are just emu/g.

Putting units + numerical labels together, the difference in Y axis values between the plots in the two papers is only ~50%.

Nope. Wrong. That's not how you calculate. What Metal Messiah wrote is perfectly correct.

 

[TJ Hooker]

Nope. Wrong. That's not how you calculate. What Metal Messiah wrote is perfectly correct.

Maybe I didn't explain clearly

In one paper, the data points range from approximately -4.5E-4 to -7.5E-4, and the text label lists the units as emu/g. In the other paper, the data points range from approximately -3.0 to -5.2, but the text label lists the units as 10^(-4) emu/g. So the actual values for the points in the 2nd paper would be -3.0E-4 to -5.2E-4 emu/g. So the points in the 1st paper differ from those in the 2nd paper by a factor of about 1.5. The x-axes in both papers span approximately the same temperature range (although again in different units).

It'd be like having two charts, one with the y-axis in centimeters (cm), the other in millimeters (mm). In the first chart the there is a data point (called Point A) with a y-value of two, in the 2nd chart there is a data point (Point B) with a y-value of 30. Is the point B 15 times larger than Point A? No, it's only 1.5 times as large, because Point A is measured in cm while Point B is measured in mm. Same idea as the charts in the two LK99 papers.