[SOLVED] Seasonic 620W with RX 5700 XT

TMIlja

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Sep 4, 2014
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Hi all,

Currently I have PSU Seasonic S12 II - 620W Bronze. I would like to know...will this PSU able to handle Sapphire RX 5700 XT Pulse? I have checked official specs and there says 600W is minimum for this GPU. I was wondering will be this enought or not.

PC build maybe will be like this:

CPU: i7-8700 (non-k)
MB: B360M or B365M
RAM: 2666mhz 8x2GB (16 Gb total)
GPU: Sapphire RX 5700 XT Pulse
PSU: Seasonic 620W S12 II Bronze
HDD: 1TB 7200 rpm
SDD: 1TB

PC mostly for gaming, no overclocking/no streaming/no RGB.

Thanks in advance for you answers.
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Actually, the MINIMUM recommendation is for a 600w unit. The RECOMMENDED capacity is 650w. On a 620w unit like that older platform group regulated model, I would suspect that you are pushing the boundary a bit. Yes, it could technically handle it but if the unit has a few miles on it it is probable that it can no longer supply it's full rated capacity. Power supplies diminish over time, and since that unit lacks some essential protections, that might be a bad thing.

How old is your S12II?
 

TMIlja

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Sep 4, 2014
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replace it now.
the warranty is gone if it goes poof now...
unit has a working life of 5 years, and we are beyond that now.
Well, it's still working with my current old PC:
i5-2500 (non k), RAM 1333mhz (4Gbx2), MSI R9 270X Gaming 2gb, 500Gb
 

R_1

Splendid
Herald
and it MAY continue to work with the new card, but as has been stated they age. capacitors, relays, solder.
there is no reason why it shouldn't work apart from the age of the unit.
You could, your choice. the new card consumes less than the old but I would not risk fancy and new on old and unwarranted.
 
Nov 15, 2019
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I had to register just to comment on this. The "replace it now" comment is insanity. The power supply is fine, yes electronics degrade with age but it's not even close to the rate that is being implied here. The Seasonic platform in that power supply is very solid and even after 5 years you should not be concerned. This sky is falling attitude is nonsense.
 

Mezoxin

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I had to register just to comment on this. The "replace it now" comment is insanity. The power supply is fine, yes electronics degrade with age but it's not even close to the rate that is being implied here. The Seasonic platform in that power supply is very solid and even after 5 years you should not be concerned. This sky is falling attitude is nonsense.
Reliability engineering isnt nonsense, Sure there is a higher probabibility of faliure after the warranty period , but the real problem is when considering the consequences of a PSU faliure into the equation, offering an advice as ''replace it now'' isnt ''insanity''
 
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Nov 15, 2019
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Reliability engineering isnt nonsense, Sure there is a higher probabibility of faliure after the warranty period , but the real problem is when considering the consequences of a PSU faliure into the equation, offering an advice as ''replace it now'' isnt ''insanity''
Sure there is a higher probability just like anything. How about a TV that is over 5 years old? Would you stop using it because of the age of the power supply? What about a stereo? No, you wouldn't even though they generally use far more inferior components than that Seasonic unit. No normal person would. It is a bit insane to have a "replace it now" attitude. What about vintage computers or those in industrial applications that have 10-20+ years of usage? Those power supplies are used all of the time. The warranty is not a shelf life nor is it an indicator of the lifespan of the unit. It is how long they will cover it if it fails. That's all. If it has been well maintained the power supply is completely fine to use and it's poor advice to suggest to someone that they should replace a unit just because it is outside of a warranty period.
 

Mezoxin

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far more inferior power supplies than that Seasonic unit. No normal person would. It is a bit insane to have a "replace it now" attitude. What about vintage computers or those in industrial applications that have 10-20+ years of usage? Those power supplies are used all of the time. The warranty is not a shelf life nor is it an indicator of the lifespan of the unit. It is how long they will cover it if it fails. That's all. If it has been well maintained the power supply is complete
The issue is not the probability of faliure alone , its the consequence of that faliure , sure a tv when it fails its fine it wouldnt damage other equipment connected to it , but when a psu fails it could damage your entire system wether gradually or suddenly , its called making a risk based decision taking in consideration the probability and consequences of that faliure event
the same thing you do for your viehcle tires , you dont just run them till they fail , you should change them every xxkm or years , because the consequences of them failing could lead to catastrophic incident
warranties durations are determined by reliability engineering studies and not just some random guesses
 
Nov 15, 2019
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The issue is not the probability of faliure alone , its the consequence of that faliure , sure a tv when it fails its fine it wouldnt damage other equipment connected to it , but when a psu fails it could damage your entire system wether gradually or suddenly , its called making a risk based decision taking in consideration the probability and consequences of that faliure event
the same thing you do for your viehcle tires , you dont just run them till they fail , you should change them every xxkm or years , because the consequences of them failing could lead to catastrophic incident
warranties durations are determined by reliability engineering studies and not just some random guesses
I am sorry but this shows a gross misunderstanding of things. It is nothing like the tires on a vehicle, replacing thermal paste after a period of time would be the comparison you could make there. This would be more like replacing the ECU/TCU/infotainment power delivery which again, nobody replaces after 5 years as a maintenance precaution. This is not risk decision making, it's borderline OCD behavior. The safe and functional lifespan of the power supply =/= the warranty period. Even if it WOULD they would be engineering them to exceed that by a fair margin to avoid risking replacing every unit they have sold within a certain timespan. Let's not even start factoring the waste that such a practice would create. OP unless you have abused your power supply you are fine to continue using it.
 

Mezoxin

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I am sorry but this shows a gross misunderstanding of things. It is nothing like the tires on a vehicle, replacing thermal paste after a period of time would be the comparison you could make there. This would be more like replacing the ECU/TCU/infotainment power delivery which again, nobody replaces after 5 years as a maintenance precaution. This is not risk decision making, it's borderline OCD behavior. The safe and functional lifespan of the power supply =/= the warranty period. Even if it WOULD they would be engineering them to exceed that by a fair margin to avoid risking replacing every unit they have sold within a certain timespan. Let's not even start factoring the waste that such a practice would create. OP unless you have abused your power supply you are fine to continue using it.
PSU faliures in PC's have catastrophic consequences same as tire faliures in viehcles
spending an average of an extra 10% of the total cost for a newly built system is a reasonable investment to protect against bricking one or more of its components , not ''OCD '' neither ''insane''
Predicting the future based on reliability analysis and not wishfull thinking is not insanity
Registering exclusively to comment about it though ....

**also remember this is an old platform and is also missing alot of protection systems
 
Nov 15, 2019
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PSU faliures in PC's have catastrophic consequences same as tire faliures in viehcles
spending an average of an extra 10% of the total cost for a newly built system is a reasonable investment to protect against bricking one or more of its components , not ''OCD '' neither ''insane''
Predicting the future based on reliability analysis and not wishfull thinking is not insanity
Registering exclusively to comment about it though ....

**also remember this is an old platform and is also missing alot of protection systems
That platform is still on sale today and is not lacking protection systems, please let me know which ones it is missing! CHEAP and CRAPPY power supplies result in those kinds of failures, not reputable and reliable ones like the one OP has. The argument that you are making is something that gets repeated like an old wives tale. Replacing a power supply at a certain interval of time is borderline OCD like making sure you lock your door 10 times.

Have you heard of johnnyguru.com? It's pretty much the authority on power supplies. Check out this thread for example...

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?11911-At-What-Age-do-You-Replace-a-Top-Grade-Power-Supply

Do you notice people mentioning that that the OP should replace the unit? No. Because it's absurd. Check out some of the comments too, some include industry people.

Check out this specific post by the man himself.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?11911-At-What-Age-do-You-Replace-a-Top-Grade-Power-Supply&p=109049#post109049



"I keep them until they die.

A lot of people think that capacitor aging is going to be the death of a PSU and also your other parts, but like Phaedrus said: Good caps in a well designed unit can easily last a decade.

Other parts in the PSU are likely to fail first. " - Jon Gerow, Site Founder

If you don't know who that is, he is THE guy when it comes to power supplies. The guy that now works for Corsair, the guy that has been in videos with guys like Gamers Nexus.

Here is him commenting on the rarity of such issues too, if the timestamp doesn't work start at 21:30...


Anyway, I have provided the information. Again... OP you are fine unless you feel compelled to spend the money on something new. Otherwise keep on trucking!
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
The GB platform isn't all that old, it's been revamped several times and has more than the basic 3 ATX required protections, and is covered by others being single rail. (OPP, OVP, UVP, SCP, OCP)

The original design is old. But aged design doesn't make it useless. It's solid. As is, the GB platform is a sleeper platform. The 520w has been proven tested by reliable sources at over 580w before falling out of spec. Not something many new designs can accomplish. It's solid enough that is about the only platform I'd consider as a recommendation in budget areas and especially in outlying areas with little but junk for competition.

5 years isnt all that much to that psu. Are there better? Yes, even some cheaper. In some places, no there isn't. Would I use one today? Yep, sure would, new isn't always necessarily better. And I just sold my 7yr old M12-II 520w that still purred like day 1, even after powering a i5-3570k OC and gtx660ti @ 124% OC for 7 years, 24/7 use.

The original automatic drip coffee maker designed by Mr. Coffee was in 1972, and is still in production today, with very little change. Because some designs are that good.
 
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Mezoxin

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the PSU Platform is old and is not optimal for how moderngraphics card operate , you can check johny guru's explanation in the same video you linked @ 8:46

View: https://youtu.be/QJ_VV3UjEBY?t=528


Apart from that The S12 II platform was a really good one at that point in time , i own the 520w model in my old q9550 build and i bought it in 2010 based on johnyguru's review , this platform though lacks lacks OTP and OCP , OTP over temperature protection which means if the fan fails (which is actually very common after 5+ years of usage) the power supply would overheat and easily go out of spec and wont shutdown , OCP which is over current Protection meaning if there is a short (failed component or Pinched wires) it would continue to provide power to that failed part causing it to overheat
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
It's a group regulated single rail, it has OCP by default, not by design or added circuitry. And I personally don't need the video, Jon and I have had several discussions over this exact platform. The OTP I'll give you, it doesn't have that.

SCP is Short Circuit Protection, so pinched wires are covered. Failed components are rarely shorted out, usually the component is blown like a fuse and will not pass power across. OCP is Over Current Protection, which is when the rail is driven harder than its rating, which doesn't happen in better single rail designs as other protective circuitry like OPP (Over Power Protection (power = volts x amps)) and OVP (Over Voltage Protection) will kick in long before Amps become an issue. Both of which the GB platform contains.

Not Optimal says everything. You'll also note Jon didn't say it wouldn't work just fine, all he said was not optimal. As in there's better psus with better ripple, better transient responses, better cross loads (that's when power fluctuations in 12v rail affect the +5v rail which is important for storage drives and USB, dc-dc psus have a +5v rail that's not as dependant, group regulated 12v rails drive the +5v rail, that's the group regulation).

Optimal just means best, and even modern gpus will work just fine on group regulated designed psus. If you are worried about output ripple affecting lifespan, don't, it's pointless. Software will render a gpu obsolete long before psu outputs will kill it.
 
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Nov 15, 2019
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the PSU Platform is old and is not optimal for how moderngraphics card operate , you can check johny guru's explanation in the same video you linked @ 8:46

View: https://youtu.be/QJ_VV3UjEBY?t=528


Apart from that The S12 II platform was a really good one at that point in time , i own the 520w model in my old q9550 build and i bought it in 2010 based on johnyguru's review , this platform though lacks lacks OTP and OCP , OTP over temperature protection which means if the fan fails (which is actually very common after 5+ years of usage) the power supply would overheat and easily go out of spec and wont shutdown , OCP which is over current Protection meaning if there is a short (failed component or Pinched wires) it would continue to provide power to that failed part causing it to overheat
You managed to take that quote out of context because he even said you could use something like their CX series (inferior to the Seasonic in question) shortly before that in the complete answer.


You are also moving the goalposts by talking about potential issues with the platform now? I thought we were discussing age of units? I'm done here, you will just dig and dig and dig for something no matter what.

You should stop using your TX-750W V2 right now as well because lacks over temp protection and the design is a decade old.
 
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Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Oh, I forgot to mention on the OTP. Fans very, very rarely ever suddenly quit working. 99% of failures are due to bad bearings, which you can take for granted will make all sorts of noise before they seize up. Bad bearings in any fan, be it double ball, rifle, liquid or sleeve are not quiet by any means. If you fail to notice that particular racket coming from the bottom of the pc, you have bigger issues.
 
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Mezoxin

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Optimal just means best, and even modern gpus will work just fine on group regulated designed psus. If you are worried about output ripple affecting lifespan, don't, it's pointless. Software will render a gpu obsolete long before psu outputs will kill it.
yeah actually that is one of my major concerns that has been pushing me toward considering upgrading my current Corsair TX-750w v2 to something like a seasonic focus plus ,

you are right about the bearings sound , my current psu fan is making a very slight chirping noise , seems like it dried out a bit , and i am torn between opening up the case and lubing the fan bearings or just getting a new psu
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
So, I'm not going through all these replies, but suffice to say that if it's a 5 year old S12II, it NEEDS to be replaced. It was questionable enough for use with that configuration if it was one year old. At five years old, you are just asking for trouble by continuing to use that unit. Especially with the lack of a couple common protections due to it's much older design. If it was brand new, I'd say it was probably worth trying, but not at five years old. I have three of those units in the cabinet over my workbench that were pulled out of systems at exactly five years old. They are still ok for use with a low draw system, but two others just like them were thrown away even though they were still working because you could visibly see abnormality with a few of the caps when the cover was taken off, which by the way, you should not do unless you know exactly what you are doing. Opening a PSU and poking around can have very bad results for your health.

Anyhow, if you are going to spend almost five hundred dollars on a graphics card, do yourself, and IT, a big favor, and spend another 75-100 bucks on a high quality power supply that you won't likely have to even think about again for another 7-10 years since that's about the average warranty period for any of the higher quality units these days.

It's not worth the risk to your hardware because when the power supply goes "night, night", it doesn't always do it alone. Sometimes it puts a friend down with it, which costs you more money that it should have if that happens.
 
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Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
and it MAY continue to work with the new card, but as has been stated they age. capacitors, relays, solder.
there is no reason why it shouldn't work apart from the age of the unit.
You could, your choice. the new card consumes less than the old but I would not risk fancy and new on old and unwarranted.
How do you figure an R9 270x pulls more power than an RX 5700 XT? It doesn't. 500w is the recommendation for the 270x. 650w is the recommendation for the 5700XT. So the problem is potentially there even IF it is working with your current graphics card. We see 100 threads per week where the PSU is working fine with an older card but as soon as a new, higher tiered card is installed. Poof the magic dragon.
 

R_1

Splendid
Herald
How do you figure an R9 270x pulls more power than an RX 5700 XT? It doesn't. 500w is the recommendation for the 270x. 650w is the recommendation for the 5700XT. So the problem is potentially there even IF it is working with your current graphics card. We see 100 threads per week where the PSU is working fine with an older card but as soon as a new, higher tiered card is installed. Poof the magic dragon.
cause I mistook it for the 280x. only human. thanks for the correction.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Don't get me wrong, I do agree totally with Darkbreeze that the psu should be replaced, it is 5 years old and has worked upto now with its current pc. Changing to the 5700XT will put a harder draw on it, and while it's one of the (if not the) best of the group regulated designs, it's got more cons vs pros with that setup.

There is a need for replacement, but not as others have insinuated that 'it's 5 years old, and is going to burn down your house any minute because it's an old design'. It's preventative maintenence no different than getting an oil change before taking a long road trip.
 
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Mezoxin

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There is a need for replacement, but not as others have insinuated that 'it's 5 years old, and is going to burn down your house any minute because it's an old design'. It's preventative maintenence no different than getting an oil change before taking a long road trip.
yeah i didn't presume anything about burning down a house , i just said that the consequences of faliures of the PSU are catastrophioc for the system, thus it should be a relatively intuitive and reasonable investment to buy a new one that is fit for the task , I dont know much about electrical components and its faliure modes and mechanisms , but its much more complex and harder to predict , detect and analyze than those that are cooncerned with potential mechanical faliures such as the effects of changing motor oil.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Actually, there are a lot of similarities. Old oil starts having a cumulative detrimental effect on the engine by not lubricating as well as it used to, which causes premature or accelerated wear of engine bearings and other moving parts. It also loses it's ability to effectively clean and carry away carbon deposits and other particulates that occur as a byproduct of the combustion process. Since the oil is also responsible for about 40% of engine cooling that becomes diminished as well. All of these things conspire to reduce the life of the engine and cause damage in ways that are unforeseen by the average vehicle owner.

Old power supplies tend to have diminished capacity for reducing ripple and electrical noise as well as not regulating voltage as well as they used to due to internal parts which degrade or fail as a result of time and age. That as well has a cumulative effect, not only on the imminent failure of the power supply but on the rest of your hardware as well. Increases in ripple tend to increase the rate at which capacitors on your motherboard and graphics card tend to fail and poor voltage regulation can have a damaging effect on pretty much every component. These are not usually the sort of thing you'll see overnight, it will take an extended period of use with that degraded power supply for problems related to it's age to begin showing up on other hardware and in most cases the average person would never put the two together and have any idea that the failures or problems they are seeing are in any way related to an old PSU. Mostly, people just think power supplies either work, or don't, which is far from the truth.

So you can see, there are a lot of similarities in the comparison drawn by karadjgne.
 

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