Sempron vs. Barton?

[rocketpack]

Well, since I'm on an unusual budget compared to many other people here (one with boundaries) I have to take special care in selecting my components.

Though underfunded, I am still an enthusiast of performance, even if all I ever do is read about it. I will have a little bit of money to spare, however, and I am looking to step up my CPU.

Right now I have an Athlon XP 1700+, FSB O/Cd to 155MHz (Internal clock @ ~ 1710MHz as a result), and it does a pretty decent job for most things I do... which is totally irrelevant, back to the point:

I've been looking into replacements for my CPU which would, essentially, max out my mobos capabilities (an old MSI K7N2-L). The maximum standard FSB is technically 166/333MHz, though the BIOS lets you set it up to 233/466MHz, but I'm certain my SB Audigy2 Pt and Radeon 9600 would fry at that pace given the amount of OC that would do to my PCI bus.

Again, I'm just jabbering on about useless details. I digress!

I was origionally tempted by the shiny big numbers on the top Athlon XPs @ 333MHz FSB, but I soon came ot realize that a lot of older benchmarks showed the Thoroughbred 2800+ was faster in a lot of cases than the Barton 3000+/333FSB. The reason being the higher clock (tbred) vs. the not very useful extra L2 cache [given the architectural confines of an "exclusive" L2 cache] (barton). Since then, the Sempron has replaced the XP 2800+ in the retail market, and I've also read several reports of Semprons outpacing the predecessor XPs at matched PRs. I also read a lot of reports of Semprons OCing even better than the critically acclaimed TBreds.

So, as it stands, my deductive reasoning has left me with two options:
- Athlon XP 3000+ / Barton / 333MHz FSB
or
- Sempron 2800+ / 333MHz FSB

As far as the "what", I am an occasional gamer (Lineage II, CStrike, CS:S, etc), I watch movies, listen to mp3s, do lots of browsing, and other simple stuff (web design/photoshop/php/etc).

In either case I would most likely be overclocking at least a little.

Do remember that I am limited to these two options as I am tied to most of the rest of my hardware, specifically the motherboard (Socket A / nForce 2 SPP), and wish to get the most I can out of my outdated platform.

So then I ask you, which chip would more please me?

I appreciate any comments and suggestions you may have for me! Thanks for reading,

-Scott

 

[Crashman]

You could use a Mobile XP2500+, since those are unlocked and overclock the best, and set it at the highest stable FSB and multiplier your board will run it stabley at.

After all, these things hit 2.2GHz very easily, 2.4GHz with a small amount of effort, and sometimes go as high as 2.6GHz.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[endyen]

Nice try, but no cigar. The barton would kill the sempron, but neither are in the same league as the xp-m processors.
Get one like this <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-401&depa=0" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-401&depa=0</A>. It has unlocked multipliers, so set it as you like. If your board has 6:2:1 agp,pci dividers, 200 X 12 works nice, at 166, a 14.5 multiplier is good. Then see how high you can OC it.
Yes, the chip will run in s462 boards, though it will not be recognized in bios.
These are the most versatile and OCable chip for socketA boards.

 

[pat]

Well, if I was you, I wouldnt update just the CPU. If you dont have the money for more than just a CPU, then wait.

Yes a faster CPU will help you a bit, but you'll still be behind compared to new tech. You dont say what kind of memory you have. If it is not at least ddr333, then upgrading the CPU is wasted money. What if you sell your cpu/board to have spare cash and get a socket 754 mobo (soltek k8an2e-gr can be found at 90$ at newegg) and A64 2800+ (131$ at newegg, 150$ for the 3000+ )which will outperform any barton, except the most overclocked out there. To get that kind of performance with a barton, you'll need faster memory, which wont help your budget.

The 2800+ barton retail is at 139$ ...and the barton 3000+ even more...With the mobile one or OEM, you'll have to add a HSF and that will cost you more, unless you go real cheap and regret it later.

Looks like the CPU cost about the same here,so, if you could sell your mobo and CPU, that could well cover for the price of a new motherboard for your A64 and if you need a bit more money, wait after christmas for price to go down and have a bit more money. And best of all, even if your memory is only ddr333(pc2700), that wont slow you down really much because the on-die memory controller of the A64 will help to perform good anyway.

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[rocketpack]

Interresting.

I had read that the mobile processors were excellent for overclock, but mostly I only read this in articles proclaiming the sempron was better than the mobile processors. Though, I can't really argue with 240 5-star reviews out of 242 reviews total, the other 2 being 4-star reviews.

Would you recomend the mobile to *anyone* stuck with the socket A platform (who has enough competency to overclock), over all other processors?

Also, when you say "Yes, the chip will run in s462 boards, though it will not be recognized in bios"...? What exactly do you mean (how does a system boot if as far as the chipset can tell there is no CPU?), and what are the possible consequences of this?

One concern I have is that my mobo doesn't support variable PCI dividers, I think they are fixed for its 3 operating FSBs (100/133/166). I wasn't really aiming for a OC monster, but if this is clearly the best way to get all the performance I can out of my Socket A, then I will definately look into it.

Thank you very much for your great information! I hope to hear back from you on my question.

-Scott

 

[rocketpack]

That's an interesting idea.

However, I'm doubting I will get much for this mobo and cpu.

As for memory, well... I left that out on purpose because its the most embarassing part. I a pair of off-brand 256Mb sticks and a absolute no-brand (I know I know! don't shoot me! quantity..quality... whatever? >.<) stick of 512Mb. All of them are DDR333. To be honest though, I have not had any problems with this memory, and have rather enjoyed the performance boost of the extra memory, despite the latency.. but we won't even go into details on the latency... Let's just say, some people would feel ill if they saw the numbers =).

ANYWAY, if I *did* upgrade I am only willing to move to the socket 939, as I feel it would be a waste to move up to an already obsolete platform (754).

But perhaps if I do a little bit of research, some bragaining, and sell of some stuff on eBay I could make it happen. We'll see!

Thank you for your suggestion!

-Scott

 

[pat]

"ANYWAY, if I *did* upgrade I am only willing to move to the socket 939, as I feel it would be a waste to move up to an already obsolete platform (754)."

According to what you say the socket 754 is obsolete?

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[pat]

common....he's on a tigh budget and you want him to buy all expensive stuff?

Sorry, but, a 754 A64 3200+ with standard RAM will cost way less and outperform the 3200+ Winchester. He'll probably be able to keep that system long enough before he really need SLI of faster stuff.. And no, the 754 is not outdated...only because of the hype created by the FX CPU, people doesnt want to look at the performance/price ratio of socket 754. As for SLI, well, by the time games really need it, well, I would have upgraded my computer twice... he dont say what kind of video card he has...what if he has a ATI 9600 serie card or equivalent? What will be the bottle neck?

You guys always want other to have the dream system you'd like to have...easy to spend other's money! He dont have really more money to spend on his system than the price of a CPU and want to do it now, there is no 56 solutions!


-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[sobelizard]

Amen on the 754. Really, how obsolete is 64 bit technology when Intel doesn't even mass produce a working desktop 64 bit chip yet?

754 Owner, operator, and damn proud of it.

<font color=green><b><i>Lizards</font color=green></b> do <b>not</b> taste like <b><font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b>,<b> <font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b> tastes like <font color=green><b>lizard.</b></font color=green></i>

 

[rocketpack]

Hello,

I don't mean to start an argument by any means. And Pat, I appreciate your advice and I don't mean to say that the 754 is obsolete, just that everyone is calling 939 "the future of AMD processors", so I'd like to go to the platform with the highest degree of upgradabilitiy in the future. I think you understand what I mean by that; it's not performance, its upgradability. On a side note, isn't 939 the only 64 (non fx, just regular 64) platform that supports dual channel ddr? I thought 754 had a single channel and was regular 64 only, 940 had dual channel and was 64-fx only, and 939 was 64 and 64-fx, both supporting dual channel?

Anyway, I like the suggestion about the mobile processor. I can't remember who said it, but yes it is one of the first nForce2 boards, but I think your info is a little incorrect as for the rest of it. The vCore is adjustable in bios (it's over stock right now actually), and the FSB can be adjusted in 1MHz increments from 100 to 233 (DDR equiv. 200-466), as well as all memory timings, AGP voltage and clock, etc. It's got a rather impressive array of OC features for how inexpensive it was.

Again, though, I digress. I have a Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis/256Mb; not exactly the "mighty bull" of video cards but what, honestly, would I do with 220fps in CS:S? SLI is, quite simply, **WAY** out of my budget (even for just ONE of the cards).

I looked into selling my current mobo+proc+ram, and figured I could get $170-$200 for it (based on equivelant component sales) on eBay, and the replacement parts would be between $570-$600, meaning I would have to fork out $375-$425 to cover the difference, which is why I'm learning toward sticking with my current system and just getting a new processor.

However, we have to wait until after christmas to see what gets replaced and what doesn't ;-) But I thank everyone for their suggestions, and I really appreciate all the great ideas.

 

[pat]

Dual channel on AMD is not as important as on the intel.Design difference in CPU. The long pipeline in Intel CPU make the need for high bandwidth need as opposed to AMD's shorter pipeline that only need the data fast (low latency thanks to the on die memory controller).

On AMD, dual channel give about 5% speed increase. The 939 3500+ is clocked at 2.2 GHz with dual channel while the 754 3400+ is clocked a 2.4 GHz. It wins most benchmark due to its higher clock. If you look <A HREF="http://www.presence-pc.com/article-178-4.html" target="_new"> here </A>you will see what I mean.

"so I'd like to go to the platform with the highest degree of upgradabilitiy in the future"

What that mean is that you sacrifice performance now to be sure to be yet behind when you'll upgrade next time...so you wont ever be up to date. The only thing you can be sure is that your brand new stuff will be outdated in 1 year.


"I looked into selling my current mobo+proc+ram, and figured I could get $170-$200 for it (based on equivelant component sales) on eBay, and the replacement parts would be between $570-$600, meaning I would have to fork out $375-$425 to cover the difference, which is why I'm learning toward sticking with my current system and just getting a new processor."

if you keep your memory, then, buying a 150$ A64 CPU and a 90$ board means that if you sell your current cpu/mobo 70$- 90$ and you were already willing to spend
around 150$ on a xp cpu, then I dont see why you'll want to spend much for not significant more cpu power...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!

 

[Cybercraig]

Again, though, I digress. I have a Sapphire Radeon 9600 Atlantis/256Mb; not exactly the "mighty bull" of video cards but what, honestly, would I do with 220fps in CS:S? SLI is, quite simply, **WAY** out of my budget (even for just ONE of the cards).
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CS is a pretty easy game to run. Junior's VNF3-250 w/A64-3000+ hits those frame rates with a 9600XT. I wouldn't want a socket 754 right now either.

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