Question Serious Internet Issues At Home

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
Hello,
I was wondering if there is anyone out there that would be able to attempt to help me figure out how to solve my problem with my network. I live in a rural area so I have wireless internet sent from a tower to a dish on my roof that runs into a PoE device in my house that then sends an ethernet into my router for internet access. Ever since I have got this internet I have had serious packet loss issues when trying to play a game like call of duty cold war I can play for maybe 1-5minutes in a match but my ping fluctuates between 20ms-2000ms and then eventually my packet loss % hits around 30% and disconnects me from the game entirely I have never been able to finish a game.

This is just one example of the packet loss I have had to deal with this for nearly 7 months now and I am going out of my mind trying to solve this as whenever I have contacted my ISP about it they claim that none of their other customers have any issues so I shouldn't be either. This issue is persistent to a lesser or greater extent depending on time of day and or what game I am playing as I have noticed some games don't seem to behave as terribly with packet loss issues. I have ran ping plotter and shown the packet loss to the isp and they claim that they can't control the packet loss on hops to other connections.

My average amount of packet loss on the main connection is almost 70%. Is there any way at all that I can definitively prove to them there is a serious issue and maybe get them to do something about it. If anyone has any ideas/advice on what I can do I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. For example as I write this many websites simply won't load just connection time outs even though I am in discord with my friend. Also in discord my ping will be 38 and then hits 5000ms then 38 then 600 ms then 38 again, they claim this happens because everyone is home because of covid and servers are being overloaded but I don't get how only me out of all my friends has any sort of issue that are all using internet connections albeit wired connections and in town.

My computers motherboard was recently replaced it shouldn't be anything to do with that I have tried multiple ethernet cables to no difference I even tried wifi connection and it does the same thing, same behavior is present on my phone as well. The thing that baffles me is my plan is 30mbps download 10mbps upload, but I get far above that speed for both. Doesn't seem to even want to let me connect to a vpn just takes forever to load into the connection. That is a speed test I just ran and my ping plotter going on right now.
 
"I live in a rural area so I have wireless internet"

This is highly likely the cause. It depends on the system they use. If they are just using normal wifi the problem pretty bad because wifi does not have anyway to control when end device transmit and they may transmit at the same time interfering with each other. The better systems designed for WISP actually control the remote radios, the newest version actually use the same LTE that cell companies use just on unlicensed radio bands.

It appears your problem is very intermittent because pingplot is not really showing a consistent problem. This would actually imply that the problem was with google.com server.

So they are correct that they can not control things outside their network....BUT hop 2 is likley the radio connection between your house and the ISP and it show some small packet loss.

This is somewhat confusing since the latency is so low to hop 2. This might be the radio itself on your roof but most do not act as routers so it should not have a IP address. In any case that should be their responsibility.

What I would do is open a number of command windows and leave constant ping run to at least hop 1 (your router) and hop 2 (the ISP device). You can do hop 3 and maybe 8.8.8.8 or some other common address.

Your goal is to prove to the ISP that you see no problem to your router but you see issues in their network...in particular hop 2 or hop 3.

This does not mean they can fix this. Wireless internet has this problem and even the very best system like cell companies use have issues.
 
As another thought if you see no problems with ping commands in a background window but the game still claims issues then the problem is not likely a simple network problem it is something more related to the game itself.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
"I live in a rural area so I have wireless internet"

This is highly likely the cause. It depends on the system they use. If they are just using normal wifi the problem pretty bad because wifi does not have anyway to control when end device transmit and they may transmit at the same time interfering with each other. The better systems designed for WISP actually control the remote radios, the newest version actually use the same LTE that cell companies use just on unlicensed radio bands.

It appears your problem is very intermittent because pingplot is not really showing a consistent problem. This would actually imply that the problem was with google.com server.

So they are correct that they can not control things outside their network....BUT hop 2 is likley the radio connection between your house and the ISP and it show some small packet loss.

This is somewhat confusing since the latency is so low to hop 2. This might be the radio itself on your roof but most do not act as routers so it should not have a IP address. In any case that should be their responsibility.

What I would do is open a number of command windows and leave constant ping run to at least hop 1 (your router) and hop 2 (the ISP device). You can do hop 3 and maybe 8.8.8.8 or some other common address.

Your goal is to prove to the ISP that you see no problem to your router but you see issues in their network...in particular hop 2 or hop 3.

This does not mean they can fix this. Wireless internet has this problem and even the very best system like cell companies use have issues.
Well I realize that wireless internet has its problems and all but i used to play on one even further out into a rural area with a speed of 4mbps download and did not experience nearly the same amount of issues I do with the far superior internet speed. My downloads were super slow but was able to play and keep connected to most games barring bad weather and problems. My main thing I was wondering is if the antenna or radio they gave me is messed up somehow since it wasn't brand new when I got it. For example when I hotspot a phone onto my connection the ping/stability is generally far superior to my regular internet. I also was informed via my ISP that our network is doubled natted so it has made playing some games in past quite a nuisance to the point where I would have to VPN. Also there has been a week or two a few months back where the problem seemed to completely disappear for a while almost while using a vpn it got rid of the packet loss issues but then they started up again vpn or not. I just simply refuse to believe this is the normal performance for a wireless network that has no issues given what I have said above in my experience.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
"I live in a rural area so I have wireless internet"

This is highly likely the cause. It depends on the system they use. If they are just using normal wifi the problem pretty bad because wifi does not have anyway to control when end device transmit and they may transmit at the same time interfering with each other. The better systems designed for WISP actually control the remote radios, the newest version actually use the same LTE that cell companies use just on unlicensed radio bands.

It appears your problem is very intermittent because pingplot is not really showing a consistent problem. This would actually imply that the problem was with google.com server.

So they are correct that they can not control things outside their network....BUT hop 2 is likley the radio connection between your house and the ISP and it show some small packet loss.

This is somewhat confusing since the latency is so low to hop 2. This might be the radio itself on your roof but most do not act as routers so it should not have a IP address. In any case that should be their responsibility.

What I would do is open a number of command windows and leave constant ping run to at least hop 1 (your router) and hop 2 (the ISP device). You can do hop 3 and maybe 8.8.8.8 or some other common address.

Your goal is to prove to the ISP that you see no problem to your router but you see issues in their network...in particular hop 2 or hop 3.

This does not mean they can fix this. Wireless internet has this problem and even the very best system like cell companies use have issues.
The radio on my roof i think does act like a router to some extent because when I power down my PoE switch in my house to reset my router and dish on roof when I turn it back on it appears as a wifi connection for 5-10minutes.
 
Games do not really care about download speeds as long as they the small amount of constant bandwidth they need. Things like packet loss and ping spikes cause a huge problem for games no matter how fast or slow the connection is.

You have to collect consistent data to find the problem.

You path ping show packet loss between hop 1 and hop 2. If hop 1 is your router and hop 2 is the radio on the roof then that would imply there is some issue with the cable which is not very likely.

In any case the testing is still the same. Run constant ping to hop 1, hop 2 and hop 3.

Your goal is to show the ISP you have no issues to your router but you see issues to their network.

The huge problem here is it may not be easy for them to fix it. You are competing for the bandwidth on the main tower with all your neighbors. Even if they use the best radios that prevent interference there is only so much total bandwidth. If everyone combined is using it all then the data will be delayed or discarded. If you see the problems vary based on the time of day that is also a very strong clue it is other customers causing the problem.

Maybe it is the radio is misaligned or has been not configured optimally. Since the ISP will deny this until you prove you have a issue you are stuck in effect doing their job for them. Most ISP that have half a brain will agree with the ping test data you collect.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
Games do not really care about download speeds as long as they the small amount of constant bandwidth they need. Things like packet loss and ping spikes cause a huge problem for games no matter how fast or slow the connection is.

You have to collect consistent data to find the problem.

You path ping show packet loss between hop 1 and hop 2. If hop 1 is your router and hop 2 is the radio on the roof then that would imply there is some issue with the cable which is not very likely.

In any case the testing is still the same. Run constant ping to hop 1, hop 2 and hop 3.

Your goal is to show the ISP you have no issues to your router but you see issues to their network.

The huge problem here is it may not be easy for them to fix it. You are competing for the bandwidth on the main tower with all your neighbors. Even if they use the best radios that prevent interference there is only so much total bandwidth. If everyone combined is using it all then the data will be delayed or discarded. If you see the problems vary based on the time of day that is also a very strong clue it is other customers causing the problem.

Maybe it is the radio is misaligned or has been not configured optimally. Since the ISP will deny this until you prove you have a issue you are stuck in effect doing their job for them. Most ISP that have half a brain will agree with the ping test data you collect.
I believe I did the pinging right its been running for a few hours at least here is a screenshot of the results seems fine in the results so far.
 

gggplaya

Distinguished
Looks like you are double NAT'd.
192.168.0.1 is your Dlink Router.
192.168.101.1 is whatever device your ISP gave you.

I would disable the DHCP on your router to see if your ISP router has it's own DHCP. You can use your DLINK as just an access point.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
The issue sometimes is intermittent like the problem is there and then it isn't today so far it has worked pretty decent for the most part.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
Looks like you are double NAT'd.
192.168.0.1 is your Dlink Router.
192.168.101.1 is whatever device your ISP gave you.

I would disable the DHCP on your router to see if your ISP router has it's own DHCP. You can use your DLINK as just an access point.
Yes they have told me we are double natted i dont really exactly know what that means for trying to game on but the device at the ip of 192.168.101.1 i thought was the radio on the roof the only device that they have given me that i have inside is this.
 

gggplaya

Distinguished
That's a Ubiquiti POE injector. So I guess they're using Ubiquiti equipment for distribution: https://operator.ui.com/

The DHCP must be on the server side, so I guess you have no choice but to double NAT.

My guess is they're using one of these 5ghz devices. 5ghz can have plenty of interference sources. Many home routers now operate on 5ghz.
https://operator.ui.com/multipoint

I would try turning off your home router's 5ghz band as a starting point. Use only 2.4ghz until you get this solved.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
Just ran ping plotter for a few seconds and this is normally the amount I will see most times. Trying to ping to the 172.253.67.238 ip address

That's a Ubiquiti POE injector. So I guess they're using Ubiquiti equipment for distribution: https://operator.ui.com/

The DHCP must be on the server side, so I guess you have no choice but to double NAT.

My guess is they're using one of these 5ghz devices. 5ghz can have plenty of interference sources. Many home routers now operate on 5ghz.
https://operator.ui.com/multipoint

I would try turning off your home router's 5ghz band as a starting point. Use only 2.4ghz until you get this solved.
Yeah i believe they said they are using 5ghz
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
That's a Ubiquiti POE injector. So I guess they're using Ubiquiti equipment for distribution: https://operator.ui.com/

The DHCP must be on the server side, so I guess you have no choice but to double NAT.

My guess is they're using one of these 5ghz devices. 5ghz can have plenty of interference sources. Many home routers now operate on 5ghz.
https://operator.ui.com/multipoint

I would try turning off your home router's 5ghz band as a starting point. Use only 2.4ghz until you get this solved.
So what would I even try to tell them or ask what I think is going on if they are using a 5ghz network there is no way they are going to change it all for me if im having issues, these issues aren't issues for the vast majority of there customers probably because they just watch netflix web surf and youtube. If you try and watch any sort of live stream it buffers quite often or live tv.
 
This is why I really hate pingplotter.

They really need to show what a good and bad trace really looks like.

First lets say that really is your problem what do you think you can possibly do about it. That node is owned by google. Your ISP can't fix it and google will just laugh at you if you call them.

BUT it is not a problem. All that means is google has limited the router to respond to ping and trace. They design it to favor using cpu power to pass actual data rather than respond to test data and also place limits so people can't run denial of service attacks try to use up all the CPU.

A actual problem will show issue starting at some hop and then continuing all the way to the end affect thing end node also. So if you get 5% packet loss in hop 5 you will see 5% packet loss or more in every hop past there.

Intermittent issues are going to make testing hard. I mean you can keep adding ping command windows to more nodes in the trace. Again at some point it does no good if it is outside your ISP network. You are in a way running your own pingplot. It just runs all the time. It is not as good but it also does not eat huge amounts of bandwidth like pingplot does when it runs.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
This is why I really hate pingplotter.

They really need to show what a good and bad trace really looks like.

First lets say that really is your problem what do you think you can possibly do about it. That node is owned by google. Your ISP can't fix it and google will just laugh at you if you call them.

BUT it is not a problem. All that means is google has limited the router to respond to ping and trace. They design it to favor using cpu power to pass actual data rather than respond to test data and also place limits so people can't run denial of service attacks try to use up all the CPU.

A actual problem will show issue starting at some hop and then continuing all the way to the end affect thing end node also. So if you get 5% packet loss in hop 5 you will see 5% packet loss or more in every hop past there.

Intermittent issues are going to make testing hard. I mean you can keep adding ping command windows to more nodes in the trace. Again at some point it does no good if it is outside your ISP network. You are in a way running your own pingplot. It just runs all the time. It is not as good but it also does not eat huge amounts of bandwidth like pingplot does when it runs.
Honestly I'm starting to feel like my only real option is attempting to find a new ISP which is basically impossible considering all the other isps have far lower speeds to the point where 10gb downloads take 5 days. Starlink is supposed to come to my area in mid to late 2021 hopefully that service doesn't have any packet loss it is kind of what I was banking on to fix the issue.
I really wish my ISP would care a bit more about me complaining since we pay 160$ per month for service that I can't use it for what I really want to use it for.
 
What we need to hope mostly is starlink forces these ISP to actually provide a good service. Now they have little competition and can charge huge amounts for crap.

Starlink sounds good in theory but even they must have some limit on the bandwidth. If they are too popular there will be too many people competing for the same limited bandwidth. Kinda why cell phone companies don't actually offer unlimited plans.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
After pingplotting for a while the last day or so I have begun to notice that I am getting packet loss on my router and the satellite that gives the internet to the router. I was wondering if this means my router is broken in some way or the ethernet going into it is. I bought this router new like 5 months ago so I wouldnt think this would be the case but you never know.
 
It depends where you are seeing the packet loss. Hop 1 and hop 2 in your trace are connected via ethernet cables. I would tend to be a bad cable in those cases. The end device might be a problem but you seldom see simple packet loss most times you see reboots and other issues.

I would use actual ping commands and not pingplot to test this. Sometime pingplot sends the traffic too quickly and the end device will favor sending actual data to responding to ping commands.

If you think it is the router you should be able to test directly connecting your PC to the device on the roof. From what I can tell that is actually acting as a router.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
It depends where you are seeing the packet loss. Hop 1 and hop 2 in your trace are connected via ethernet cables. I would tend to be a bad cable in those cases. The end device might be a problem but you seldom see simple packet loss most times you see reboots and other issues.

I would use actual ping commands and not pingplot to test this. Sometime pingplot sends the traffic too quickly and the end device will favor sending actual data to responding to ping commands.

If you think it is the router you should be able to test directly connecting your PC to the device on the roof. From what I can tell that is actually acting as a router.
Well part of me thinks pingplotter has to be right in a sense because I experience so many issues while gaming like help me understand this. My isp claims that game servers are the problem game servers are the problem over and over. But EVERY GAME I PLAY has the same issues. All of my friends I try to play with, with different isps playing the same game have no issues whatsoever. I realize I am on a wireless connection I dont expect it to be 100% perfect but it has problems 85% of the time playing stuff and it's fine 15% of the time. I feel like my isp is using the game server thing as a way to deflect any blame off of themselves. I have an isp from a small town that is relatively new and I get the impression sometimes that they don't even know how to manage the network properly. Since they have just always given me generic answers that don't explain their reasoning for thinking whatever way.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
It depends where you are seeing the packet loss. Hop 1 and hop 2 in your trace are connected via ethernet cables. I would tend to be a bad cable in those cases. The end device might be a problem but you seldom see simple packet loss most times you see reboots and other issues.

I would use actual ping commands and not pingplot to test this. Sometime pingplot sends the traffic too quickly and the end device will favor sending actual data to responding to ping commands.

If you think it is the router you should be able to test directly connecting your PC to the device on the roof. From what I can tell that is actually acting as a router.
Like they have never once even looked into my complaints of a issue they just keep saying we are installing daily no issues you are the only customer in the entire network complaining. As if that is a reason to not try and solve my issue for me. It's making me go crazy lol.
 

rpalmz-46

Reputable
May 2, 2017
31
0
4,530
0
It depends where you are seeing the packet loss. Hop 1 and hop 2 in your trace are connected via ethernet cables. I would tend to be a bad cable in those cases. The end device might be a problem but you seldom see simple packet loss most times you see reboots and other issues.

I would use actual ping commands and not pingplot to test this. Sometime pingplot sends the traffic too quickly and the end device will favor sending actual data to responding to ping commands.

If you think it is the router you should be able to test directly connecting your PC to the device on the roof. From what I can tell that is actually acting as a router.
If its a bad cable from satellite on roof to router I feel like that is a best case scenario because they are claiming that the device has no dropped packets on their end. But would they be able to see if the packets are dropping going into my router or just from them to the satellite is what I'm wondering.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS