Setting All Abilities to 13

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.

For example, if you choose the default fighter abilities they are set
to 16, 13, 16, 10, 10, 9. If you add all these you get 74. If you set
all your abilities even at 13 you get 78 (13x6). By using the latter
you actually achieve 4 more points than the former.

I'm wondering if it'd just be better to set all Abilities to 13 and
raise them when leveling up, that way you don't have the penalty of
using two or more points to raise an Ability just one point. When
creating your character, once you try raise an Ability to 15 it costs
you two points. To raise an Ability to 17 it costs three points. So
precious Ability points are consumed if you're not careful.

A PC with all his abilities set to 13 isn't going to be strong in any
one particular abilitiy. But then again, overall, he is the most
balanced. I would think that having the exact same Ability point
values early in the game would be a minor deficit, but as you
character goes epic the "extra" ability points can only help.

I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.

Any comments?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

"Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4f29559e.0410102202.5d644b79@posting.google.com...
> I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
> points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.
>
> For example, if you choose the default fighter abilities they are set
> to 16, 13, 16, 10, 10, 9. If you add all these you get 74. If you set
> all your abilities even at 13 you get 78 (13x6). By using the latter
> you actually achieve 4 more points than the former.
>
> I'm wondering if it'd just be better to set all Abilities to 13 and
> raise them when leveling up, that way you don't have the penalty of
> using two or more points to raise an Ability just one point. When
> creating your character, once you try raise an Ability to 15 it costs
> you two points. To raise an Ability to 17 it costs three points. So
> precious Ability points are consumed if you're not careful.
>
> A PC with all his abilities set to 13 isn't going to be strong in any
> one particular abilitiy. But then again, overall, he is the most
> balanced. I would think that having the exact same Ability point
> values early in the game would be a minor deficit, but as you
> character goes epic the "extra" ability points can only help.
>
> I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
> newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
> Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
>
> Any comments?

That is certainly one fun way of playing a character, to set all his
abilities to 13 to get the most for your money.

I think the defaults give you points where they are most useful for that
character...in the opinion of the designers...which are not necessarily
right, as you seem to know.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying to
make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
strength)

So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that has
average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance, what
the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to choose
classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one ability,
you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference in
the long run.


Regards

Jeroen


Mark Earnest wrote:
> "Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4f29559e.0410102202.5d644b79@posting.google.com...
>
>>I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
>>points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.
>>
>>For example, if you choose the default fighter abilities they are set
>>to 16, 13, 16, 10, 10, 9. If you add all these you get 74. If you set
>>all your abilities even at 13 you get 78 (13x6). By using the latter
>>you actually achieve 4 more points than the former.
>>
>>I'm wondering if it'd just be better to set all Abilities to 13 and
>>raise them when leveling up, that way you don't have the penalty of
>>using two or more points to raise an Ability just one point. When
>>creating your character, once you try raise an Ability to 15 it costs
>>you two points. To raise an Ability to 17 it costs three points. So
>>precious Ability points are consumed if you're not careful.
>>
>>A PC with all his abilities set to 13 isn't going to be strong in any
>>one particular abilitiy. But then again, overall, he is the most
>>balanced. I would think that having the exact same Ability point
>>values early in the game would be a minor deficit, but as you
>>character goes epic the "extra" ability points can only help.
>>
>>I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
>>newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
>>Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
>>
>>Any comments?
>
>
> That is certainly one fun way of playing a character, to set all his
> abilities to 13 to get the most for your money.
>
> I think the defaults give you points where they are most useful for that
> character...in the opinion of the designers...which are not necessarily
> right, as you seem to know.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

> Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying to
> make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
> abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
> strength)
>
> So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that has
> average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance, what
> the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to choose
> classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one ability,
> you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference in
> the long run.

I agree. Overall the abilities should be distributed the way the chosen
class benefits best. Still setting nothing higher than 14 (or 16 if you plan
to specialize in one attribute) is a good idea, so save points. Spending the
3 to get to 17 is something I avoid. Chars with all attributes set to 13 at
the start will have much trouble later to gain feats that require 20+ in a
certain attribute.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Aquilonious a écrit :
> I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
> points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.
....

> I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
> newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
> Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
>
> Any comments?

Don't you think it'll be boring if everyone has the same abilities? I
rather like having a character with very strong points, and some bad
ones. Let's say you want a very powerfull warrior. If you start at 13,
how long will it take to raise your strengh ability up to 18?
A "most balanced" character is not suitable for everyone. At least, not
for _me_...

Vincent Guichard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Some good and logical feedback here.

The reason why I originally asked the Ability=13 question is that I
have multi-classing in mind.

What Ability settings would you all recommend for, say, Ftr/Bar/Rog?

I'd plan on having about 30 levels of ftr and 5 each of bar and rog. I
don't necessarily have to have high strength due to the bar's rage
2/day.


"Dirk Dreidoppel" <dirk.dreidoppel@deadspam.com> wrote in message news:<ckdhnk$h14$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
> > Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying to
> > make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
> > abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
> > strength)
> >
> > So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that has
> > average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance, what
> > the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to choose
> > classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one ability,
> > you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference in
> > the long run.
>
> I agree. Overall the abilities should be distributed the way the chosen
> class benefits best. Still setting nothing higher than 14 (or 16 if you plan
> to specialize in one attribute) is a good idea, so save points. Spending the
> 3 to get to 17 is something I avoid. Chars with all attributes set to 13 at
> the start will have much trouble later to gain feats that require 20+ in a
> certain attribute.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Aquilonious wrote:

> I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
> points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.
>
> For example, if you choose the default fighter abilities they are set
> to 16, 13, 16, 10, 10, 9. If you add all these you get 74. If you set
> all your abilities even at 13 you get 78 (13x6). By using the latter
> you actually achieve 4 more points than the former.
>
> I'm wondering if it'd just be better to set all Abilities to 13 and
> raise them when leveling up, that way you don't have the penalty of
> using two or more points to raise an Ability just one point. When
> creating your character, once you try raise an Ability to 15 it costs
> you two points. To raise an Ability to 17 it costs three points. So
> precious Ability points are consumed if you're not careful.

While this is true, its also true that raising your ability that
-matters- does you a lot more good than raising an ability that your
class/class combo rarely uses.

In particular, your idea of raising abilities to 13 is an enormous
waste, because there is no difference in effect in an ability of 13
versus 12; this means that you have wasted 6 points in an effort to save
some.

If you make three of your abilities 12, you have enough points to make
three more 14; thats the same for the 12s but another +1 each in effect
for the 14s.

If you make 4 of your abilities 12, you have enough points left over to
make one 14 and one 15; one stat raise from a 16.

Or you can make 5 abilities 12 and have enough points to make one stat
16 straight off... you'll be in the same situation with the five at 12
as you were with them at 13, but you have one ability that is an extra +2

Its likely you won't be raising more than one or two stats; now I'll
admit that having a stat at 13 means that raising it just one point gets
you an immediate effect, but unless you intend to raise them all, any
you don't raise have a wasted point plunked into them waiting.

This isn't true of an ability which controls your max spell level, of
course, you'll see a higher max spell level with each point. There are
some other similar effects that aren't grainy at an "every two points"
level, but the principle effect is the one you only get on odd numbers.

Lance

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Aquilonious wrote:
> I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
> newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
> Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
>
> Any comments?


Another way to accomplish the same thing (most overall attribute points)
is to have three abilities with 14 and three with 12. I've made a few
characters with exactly that distribution, but starting everything off
at 13 doesn't maximize your points as well as a 14/14/14/12/12/12 split.

In any case, unless I'm designing a character that needs decent ability
scores in almost everything (paladin/WM springs to mind: needs decent
STR, CON, WIS and CHA for paladin and at least 13 DEX and INT for WM
required feats), I'll leave one or more attributes at 10 or below at
character creation in order to maximize the strengths of my character.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Gosh, now why didn't I think of that? @:-/

I might consider the 14/12 route because it would actually divide the
points up better. This, of course, depends on the chr I plan on
building. I really want to build a chr with strong fighting skills and
some rogue skills to boot for solo play. I really don't like using
henchperson unless the relationship develops into something really
good (Anera in Shadowlords/Dreamcatcher is one example), and then
*only* one henchperson. Using a henchperson really reduces the XPs
gained and so you level up a bit slower. I like to level up a tad
quicker.



Barry Scott Will <nwn_usenet@cavecreations.net> wrote in message news:<hVwad.241279$3l3.48494@attbi_s03>...
> Aquilonious wrote:
> > I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
> > newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
> > Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
> >
> > Any comments?
>
>
> Another way to accomplish the same thing (most overall attribute points)
> is to have three abilities with 14 and three with 12. I've made a few
> characters with exactly that distribution, but starting everything off
> at 13 doesn't maximize your points as well as a 14/14/14/12/12/12 split.
>
> In any case, unless I'm designing a character that needs decent ability
> scores in almost everything (paladin/WM springs to mind: needs decent
> STR, CON, WIS and CHA for paladin and at least 13 DEX and INT for WM
> required feats), I'll leave one or more attributes at 10 or below at
> character creation in order to maximize the strengths of my character.

 

[MadDog]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Mark Earnest wrote:

> That is certainly one fun way of playing a character, to set all his
> abilities to 13 to get the most for your money.
>
> I think the defaults give you points where they are most useful for that
> character...in the opinion of the designers...which are not necessarily
> right, as you seem to know.

That works...

But only because most module designers lack the imagination or
dedication to make modules where it wouldn't work.

Take a fighter. You build one with high strength, high con, low intel
and low wis. Will that work - yeah - in most cases but it wouldn't work
in a module built for a fighter that had to be smart for example. With
some imagination and stat checking a module could be made where unless
the character was smart enough he wouldn't be able to figure out certain
puzzles or maybe the NPC's don't like dummies or with a low wis he gets
smacked down more easily by MU's and the like.

Still all in all building a munchkin character will work in 99% of modules.

--
Maddog
======
Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of
the unhappy people.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Lance Berg wrote:


> This isn't true of an ability which controls your max spell level, of
> course, you'll see a higher max spell level with each point. There are
> some other similar effects that aren't grainy at an "every two points"
> level, but the principle effect is the one you only get on odd numbers.
>
Er, even numbers, that is

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On 10 Oct 2004 23:02:44 -0700, aquilonious@yahoo.com (Aquilonious) wrote:

>
>I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
>newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
>Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.

Unless you really know what you're doing, it's a great way to gimp your
character.


--
Hong Ooi | "I like snowballs."
hong@zipworld.com.au | -- CA
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ |
Sydney, Australia |

 

[Vellu]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Dex/Con/Cha emphasis then....if no need for strength.

"Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:4f29559e.0410111039.30791bd2@posting.google.com...
> Some good and logical feedback here.
>
> The reason why I originally asked the Ability=13 question is that I
> have multi-classing in mind.
>
> What Ability settings would you all recommend for, say, Ftr/Bar/Rog?
>
> I'd plan on having about 30 levels of ftr and 5 each of bar and rog. I
> don't necessarily have to have high strength due to the bar's rage
> 2/day.
>
>
> "Dirk Dreidoppel" <dirk.dreidoppel@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> news:<ckdhnk$h14$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
>> > Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying to
>> > make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
>> > abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
>> > strength)
>> >
>> > So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that has
>> > average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance, what
>> > the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to choose
>> > classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one ability,
>> > you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference in
>> > the long run.
>>
>> I agree. Overall the abilities should be distributed the way the chosen
>> class benefits best. Still setting nothing higher than 14 (or 16 if you
>> plan
>> to specialize in one attribute) is a good idea, so save points. Spending
>> the
>> 3 to get to 17 is something I avoid. Chars with all attributes set to 13
>> at
>> the start will have much trouble later to gain feats that require 20+ in
>> a
>> certain attribute.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

How about Int?

Shouldn't Int be just as important, if not more, than Dex because of
Int's affect on skill points when leveling up? I like to max out use
the Use Magic Item skill and also make use of the Persuasion and
Tumble skills (my PC almost always wears light armor to get the
benefit of Tumble on AC). Less important to me are the trap and craft
item skills because I can bash all doors and chests open. If the chest
is trapped, then I just use throwing weapons to bash it open. As far
as detecting a trap, most traps are not deadly so even if I do run
into one I can most always rest or heal via a potion or spell (use
magic device).

"Vellu" <velimala@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ckemjm$qc0$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>...
> Dex/Con/Cha emphasis then....if no need for strength.
>
> "Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
> viestissä:4f29559e.0410111039.30791bd2@posting.google.com...
> > Some good and logical feedback here.
> >
> > The reason why I originally asked the Ability=13 question is that I
> > have multi-classing in mind.
> >
> > What Ability settings would you all recommend for, say, Ftr/Bar/Rog?
> >
> > I'd plan on having about 30 levels of ftr and 5 each of bar and rog. I
> > don't necessarily have to have high strength due to the bar's rage
> > 2/day.
> >
> >
> > "Dirk Dreidoppel" <dirk.dreidoppel@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> > news:<ckdhnk$h14$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
> >> > Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying to
> >> > make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
> >> > abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
> >> > strength)
> >> >
> >> > So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that has
> >> > average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance, what
> >> > the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to choose
> >> > classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one ability,
> >> > you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference in
> >> > the long run.
> >>
> >> I agree. Overall the abilities should be distributed the way the chosen
> >> class benefits best. Still setting nothing higher than 14 (or 16 if you
> >> plan
> >> to specialize in one attribute) is a good idea, so save points. Spending
> >> the
> >> 3 to get to 17 is something I avoid. Chars with all attributes set to 13
> >> at
> >> the start will have much trouble later to gain feats that require 20+ in
> >> a
> >> certain attribute.

 

[Vellu]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Well, rogue gets a lot of points anyway, but true INT can be of use...Maybe
trade CON for that.

"Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:4f29559e.0410111937.11cc4041@posting.google.com...
> How about Int?
>
> Shouldn't Int be just as important, if not more, than Dex because of
> Int's affect on skill points when leveling up? I like to max out use
> the Use Magic Item skill and also make use of the Persuasion and
> Tumble skills (my PC almost always wears light armor to get the
> benefit of Tumble on AC). Less important to me are the trap and craft
> item skills because I can bash all doors and chests open. If the chest
> is trapped, then I just use throwing weapons to bash it open. As far
> as detecting a trap, most traps are not deadly so even if I do run
> into one I can most always rest or heal via a potion or spell (use
> magic device).
>
> "Vellu" <velimala@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<ckemjm$qc0$1@phys-news1.kolumbus.fi>...
>> Dex/Con/Cha emphasis then....if no need for strength.
>>
>> "Aquilonious" <aquilonious@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
>> viestissä:4f29559e.0410111039.30791bd2@posting.google.com...
>> > Some good and logical feedback here.
>> >
>> > The reason why I originally asked the Ability=13 question is that I
>> > have multi-classing in mind.
>> >
>> > What Ability settings would you all recommend for, say, Ftr/Bar/Rog?
>> >
>> > I'd plan on having about 30 levels of ftr and 5 each of bar and rog. I
>> > don't necessarily have to have high strength due to the bar's rage
>> > 2/day.
>> >
>> >
>> > "Dirk Dreidoppel" <dirk.dreidoppel@deadspam.com> wrote in message
>> > news:<ckdhnk$h14$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
>> >> > Well this obviously depends on what type of character you are trying
>> >> > to
>> >> > make, but as you probably know, different classes have different
>> >> > abilities that you should focus on (sorc charisma, wiz int, fighter
>> >> > strength)
>> >> >
>> >> > So if you take that into account, sure its nice to have a char that
>> >> > has
>> >> > average rankings, but when i go for a fighter class for instance,
>> >> > what
>> >> > the hell do i care if my charisma is 13 ? The best tactic is to
>> >> > choose
>> >> > classes that have synergy between them, and then focus on one
>> >> > ability,
>> >> > you simply don't get to add enough points to make a real difference
>> >> > in
>> >> > the long run.
>> >>
>> >> I agree. Overall the abilities should be distributed the way the
>> >> chosen
>> >> class benefits best. Still setting nothing higher than 14 (or 16 if
>> >> you
>> >> plan
>> >> to specialize in one attribute) is a good idea, so save points.
>> >> Spending
>> >> the
>> >> 3 to get to 17 is something I avoid. Chars with all attributes set to
>> >> 13
>> >> at
>> >> the start will have much trouble later to gain feats that require 20+
>> >> in
>> >> a
>> >> certain attribute.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Assuming a human character, you pay only one point for each stat level
between 8 and 14.

Most of my characters have stats distributed one of two ways: four 14s,
one 12, and one 10; or, one 15, two 14s, two 12s, and one 10. I don't
like raising initial stats above 15 at initial character creation -- it
just seems too wasteful, creating an over-specialized character. The
point costs are different for character races other than human and
half-elf, so that makes a difference. I'd tend to start out an elf with
a 16 DEX, for instance.

As people pointed out, NWN (and 3E D&D) gives bonuses on even-numbered
stat scores, so you'd still be better off with three 14s and three 12s.

There are certain important feats that have stat pre-requisites, and
those tend to be odd numbers. Dodge (and therefore the series of feats
that have Dodge as prerequisite) requires a DEX of 13, and Ambidexterity
requires a DEX of 15. Power Attack requires STR 13, and Expertise
requires INT 13 (a good reason to build "smart" fighters).

When playing on a PW, I wanted to try to create a character who'd be a
smart fighter and an effective leader, but *not* a paladin. (They had
more paladins than you could shake a stick at, at the time.) So, I
created a fighter with STR 14, DEX 12, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 14.
DEX 12 is enough to get you the maximum DEX bonus to AC when wearing
heavy armor. At level 4, I increased her DEX to 13, so she could take
Dodge and its successors. After the Champion of [Torm] PRC came out, I
found it worked well for her to multiclass into that PRC, and take the
rest of her stat increases in CHA.

Anyway, "moderate" stats seem more reasonable to me then "min-maxed"
stats. The super-specialized 40th level one-trick ponies that seem
popular in character build descriptions don't seem to me to have much to
do with D&D or the Forgotten Realms setting.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

On 10 Oct 2004 23:02:44 -0700, aquilonious@yahoo.com (Aquilonious) wrote:

>I've noticed that when you start the game you receive the most ability
>points if you set each ability to 13 instead of differing values.
>
>For example, if you choose the default fighter abilities they are set
>to 16, 13, 16, 10, 10, 9. If you add all these you get 74. If you set
>all your abilities even at 13 you get 78 (13x6). By using the latter
>you actually achieve 4 more points than the former.
>
>I'm wondering if it'd just be better to set all Abilities to 13 and
>raise them when leveling up, that way you don't have the penalty of
>using two or more points to raise an Ability just one point. When
>creating your character, once you try raise an Ability to 15 it costs
>you two points. To raise an Ability to 17 it costs three points. So
>precious Ability points are consumed if you're not careful.
>
>A PC with all his abilities set to 13 isn't going to be strong in any
>one particular abilitiy. But then again, overall, he is the most
>balanced. I would think that having the exact same Ability point
>values early in the game would be a minor deficit, but as you
>character goes epic the "extra" ability points can only help.
>
>I've looked on Bioware forums, NWVault forums, and here in this
>newsgroup and am a bit surprised that that this subject (setting all
>Abilities to 13) hasn't come up.
>
>Any comments?

it also really depends on what kind of character you are playing.
non-spellcasters don't get hurt as much by this, but spellcasters need high
primary stats to increase the DC of their spells and to gain bonus spells.

and, everything except for INT can be amp'd up with equipment. those skill
points lost due to opportunity cost are irreplacable.

eudas
Inside of every silver lining, there's a big, dark cloud.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

I tend to make sure that all stat points at least equate to no negative
bonus, then I would tend to pick at least a 14 for INT just for the 2 extra
skills per lvl, then start to work on the primary skills for the
class/classes for the character i was creating, but trying to stay away from
increases above 14 for any one skill. I also try to keep in mind what are my
pre-reqs are for some feats like, rapid shot for an archer character, Cleave
for multi attacks, that sort of thing.

Thats my 2 cents.