Question Setting memory speed for Ryzen - best practice question, and is 3200Mhz RAM unrealistic with my setup, or is something wrong?

Ok, so, I alluded to this in another thread, but I did some further testing, to see what I can come up with.

Specs are listed in the spoiler in my sig, the PC called ChromaTron.

The BIOS in the motherboard only allows memory voltage to be altered in 0.05V increments.

Right now, everything seems to be stable setting the RAM to 3066MHz, and using only 1.25V, and Memtest86 can makes four full runs of all tests (the ones available with the free version) with no failures.

At 3200MHz, I get failures at the default 1.35 voltage. It also fails at 1.40, and 1.30, and the system will make 3 attempts at restarting if I attempt 1.25V at that speed, until it gives up and automatically resets to 2133 after the third try.


My questions are:
  • Given the specific version of the 1600 I have (seems like it's closer to a slightly slowed down 2600 than to an original 1600), my motherboard, and RAM, does this indicate that there's a hardware problem (not-quite-up-to-spec RAM, or something else), or is 3200 generally considered particularly ambitious for a B450 motherboard combined with a Ryzen 1600 or 2600?
    • If 3200 should be easily doable, then what am I doing wrong?
    • Side note: I don't know what flaws or imperfections make a 2600 into an F-stepping 1600? Not quite able to hit the same speeds? A memory controller that's not quite as good? Some other thing(s)? I honestly have no idea, and I'm not sure AMD has revealed that info.
  • Assuming 3200Mhz is out of the question for me, and 3066 is the best that I can do, then is that speed ideal? I know I read somewhere that (at least with regard to the 3000 series Ryzen), that RAM speed in multiples of 266.66Mhz are preferred. Is this also the case for Ryzen 1600 and 2600?
    • If so, then since the next step down from 3200 (12x266.66) is 2933Mhz (11x266.66) am I actually better off setting the RAM speed to 2933 than I am setting it to 3066?
 
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I am on a ASRock b350 with Corsair RAM running stable at 3200MHz with Ryzen 5 1600 (see signature below).
I set the timing and voltage manually as per RAM specs.
I wasn't able to go above 2666MHz at the beginning but after a BIOS updates I was able to hit 2933MHz then another BIOS update and it reached 3200MHz.
The RAM was not listed in the QVL for ASRock or Corsair.
 
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alceryes

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As @jojesa alludes to, try adjusting the RAM timings manually. Also, you may need to adjust the memory controller voltage slightly (think it's CLDO_ VDDP - Ryzen users, please confirm).
From what I've read, anything up to 3600Mhz memory is ideal. Go above that and the infinity fabric speeds will probably drop from a 1:1 ratio, introducing latency.
 
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prophet51

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My 2600 isn't stable with the 2 x 16gb Patriot xmp 3200mhz ram I bought a month ago no matter what I did. Eventually I got it stable with 1.49v@cl14-18-19-3133mhz.
The zen+ cpu's start struggling with ram above 3000mhz and the max possible on zen+ is only 3600mhz once in a blue moon.
I would recommend downloading typhoon burning to see what ram sticks you actually have
 
Thanks - I should add in that, while the RAM wasn't on the QVL for the motherboard, it was listed on the Memory Finder portion of Corsair's website, when doing a lookup by motherboard.

Additionally, according to CPU-Z, the DIMMs I have are showing up as single-rank, if that makes a difference in what I should do.

I'm on the latest BIOS (ver 2.90) for the board. While I set the overall memory speed and voltage manually, I didn't try manually setting the timings, so, while it might be a couple of days, I'll give that a try, and the controller voltage as well, and report back.


side note: I see in this article the mentions of memory speeds in multiples of 266.6 being ideal (not sure if Ryzen 3000 specific or not), which is why I wondered if I should fall back to 2933 if I can't get 3200 to play nicely. I could've sworn I read it in another article as well, but can't recall. Can anyone confirm that this "multiples of 266.6MHz" situation is the case for all Ryzens?

Though we prefer to set our memory in multiples of 266.667 MHz, none within this range would serve the same matched-latency function.
For the most part, the best configurations for DDR4 (and even DDR3) performance have been at multiples of 266.6x MHz, but DDR4-3600 doesn’t fit that scheme.
 
Thanks - I should add in that, while the RAM wasn't on the QVL for the motherboard, it was listed on the Memory Finder portion of Corsair's website, when doing a lookup by motherboard.
My Corsair RAM is not listed on the motherboard QVL nor on Corsairs's website.
Manually entering timing and voltages worked for me.

Additionally, according to CPU-Z, the DIMMs I have are showing up as single-rank, if that makes a difference in what I should do.
AMD Ryzen officially supports Single-Rank and Dual-Rank up to 3200 MHz
AMD Ryzen 3rd Gen officially supports Single-Rank and Dual-Rank up to 4600 MHz

there is not a huge difference between them with regards to DDR4 memory performance and that is actually a good thing for the community!

side note: I see in this article the mentions of memory speeds in multiples of 266.6 being ideal (not sure if Ryzen 3000 specific or not), which is why I wondered if I should fall back to 2933 if I can't get 3200 to play nicely. I could've sworn I read it in another article as well, but can't recall. Can anyone confirm that this "multiples of 266.6MHz" situation is the case for all Ryzens?
If you are stable at 2933MHz, I would leave it at that, since there isn't any noticeable difference in real world applications between 2933MHz and 3200MHz.
After I updated the BIOS, I rebooted and reset the BIOS to default settings, then manually entered timing and voltages. I also selected the XMP profile.
A BIOS update could allow you to run it at rated speed later on.
 
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prophet51

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Yes I've heard of that 266.66mhz thing before but haven't noticed any performance benefit from following it(wasn't looking that hard though). Either way falling back to 2933mhz would be easiest to do, maybe lower your cas to 14 to compensate a little.
Above 3000mhz increasing procodt to 68ohm helped me with stability and enabling geardown mode.
 
If you are stable at 2933MHz, I would leave it at that, since there isn't any noticeable difference in real world applications between 2933MHz and 3200MHz.
After I updated the BIOS, I rebooted and reset the BIOS to default settings, then manually entered timing and voltages. I also selected the XMP profile.
A BIOS update could allow you to run it at rated speed later on.
Yes I've heard of that 266.66mhz thing before but haven't noticed any performance benefit from following it(wasn't looking that hard though). Either way falling back to 2933mhz would be easiest to do, maybe lower your cas to 14 to compensate a little.
Above 3000mhz increasing procodt to 68ohm helped me with stability and enabling geardown mode.
Actually, I'm currently stable at 3066, I was just wondering if 2933 would actually be better than 3066 due to that 266.66mhz guideline. I'll see if Corsair notes any specific/recommended timings at the lower speeds for this kit.

Ryzen 5 1600 - AMD - WikiChip
See memory configuration table for officially supported speeds.

You don't have a 2000 or 3000 Series Ryzen along with their improved memory controllers that allow higher memory frequencies to be officially supported.
Actually, I'm not sure. I do have a 1600, but it's the 12nm refresh of it, and is described as a Pinnacle Ridge (which CPU-Z confirms, also calls it Stepping 2, and Revision PiR-B2). Now, I notice the link you posted does in fact list a few part numbers, including the one I have (YD1600BBAFBOX) - however, the rest of it all refers to the 14nm package.

I have no idea if the memory controller on this version of the CPU is the same as the original 1600, or is the same as the 2600.
 
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prophet51

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I bet you have the zen+ controller therefore should be able to run ram at whatever zen+ can do.
Aida64 includes a ram benchmark for you to compare 2933mhz to 3066mhz if you like. I think 3066mhz at the same timings as 2933mz will be faster.
 
Ok, so the memory is 3200MHz, official timings at that speed of 16-18-18-36. It runs just fine at 1.25V at 3066Hz.

Noting that 2933 is about 9% less than 3066, testing thus far:
  • 2933MHz at 1.2V not stable, 1.25V is still required, as is the case for 3066Mhz.
  • Setting all timings to auto at 2933MHz causes the motherboard to set some crazy values, as I recall 18-21-21-40 or something along those lines
  • 2933MHz at the standard 16-18-18-36 is, weirdly, faster in the AIDA64 tests than 15-18-18-36
  • 2933MHz at 16-18-18-36 compared to 3066 at 16-18-18-36, according to AIDA64 Memory Benchmarks:
    • Memory Read: 1% slower
    • Memory Write: 0.5% slower
    • Memory Copy: 5% faster???
    • Memory Latency: 2.9% greater.
I have no idea how to explain that faster memory copy result. I might try dropping all the memory timings by 1 to see what happens (ie: 15-17-17-37 . . or should the last one always be double of the numbers before it?), but frankly, given AIDA64's results, It looks like it's a wash overall between 2933 and 3066. The copy result is the only thing making me hesitate about just sticking with 3066.
 

prophet51

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3066mhz feels much faster to me than 2933mhz, I didn't pay much attention to the benchmarks besides memory latency which is better with 3066mhz.
You might want to try getting to cl14@3066mhz, I can get that even though 3200mhz isn't stable no matter what.
I don't think running cas 15 will work unless you disable geardown mode.
 

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