Shieldgun Efficiency

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Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Stephen L Cox:

>> Shieldgun efficiency is worthy of a whole
>> other thread. That weapon/tool needs some
>> serious tweaking to make it worth binding to a key

Please share your gems :)

--
Toby
asktoby.com
BSOD VST & ME
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On 13 May 2004 15:14:55 GMT, Toby Newman <google@asktoby.com> wrote:

>Stephen L Cox:
>
>>> Shieldgun efficiency is worthy of a whole
>>> other thread. That weapon/tool needs some
>>> serious tweaking to make it worth binding to a key
>
>Please share your gems :)

Well, I don't have alot of time right now for a lengthy writeup but
basically I feel the item is flawed on a defensive/offensive
comparison scale. Basically, any defensive weapon needs to be better
at protecting you that what an equivalent offensive weapon would be
capble of dishing out in the same timespan. In other words - why put
up a shield that will only keep you alive for 5 seconds if you could
just kill your opponent in 2 seconds? Defensive items need to be
point-for-point better than their offensive cousins simply to attract
people to use them. For example, base defenses are pretty powerful -
nice damage, infinite ammo, armored. They need to be nice to make up
for their stationary, defensive nature, otherwise you'd just hop in a
vehicle and declare "the best defense is a good offense".

From a game mechanical standpoint, one must make defenses better or
nobody will bother with it.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Steven L Cox" <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1m47a0ht107hiam9ffb1h7220hvbhi26lj@4ax.com...
> On 13 May 2004 15:14:55 GMT, Toby Newman <google@asktoby.com> wrote:
>
> >Stephen L Cox:
> >
> >>> Shieldgun efficiency is worthy of a whole
> >>> other thread. That weapon/tool needs some
> >>> serious tweaking to make it worth binding to a key
> >
> >Please share your gems :)
>
> Well, I don't have alot of time right now for a lengthy writeup but
> basically I feel the item is flawed on a defensive/offensive
> comparison scale. </snip>

what he said :)

k
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Steven L Cox <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1m47a0ht107hiam9ffb1h7220hvbhi26lj@4ax.com:

> In other words - why put
> up a shield that will only keep you alive for 5 seconds if you could
> just kill your opponent in 2 seconds?

You don't always have a weapon capable of hurting the opponent. That's
when I see players using the shield to get away.

[...]
> From a game mechanical standpoint, one must make defenses better or
> nobody will bother with it.

I see them used on public servers not infrequently, and usually by good
players.

-Dan Damouth
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 01:05:24 GMT, Daniel Damouth <damouth@san.rr.com>
wrote:

>Steven L Cox <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:1m47a0ht107hiam9ffb1h7220hvbhi26lj@4ax.com:
>
>> In other words - why put
>> up a shield that will only keep you alive for 5 seconds if you could
>> just kill your opponent in 2 seconds?
>
>You don't always have a weapon capable of hurting the opponent. That's
>when I see players using the shield to get away.

Saying "it was that or nothing" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement
though, is it?

>> From a game mechanical standpoint, one must make defenses better or
>> nobody will bother with it.
>
>I see them used on public servers not infrequently, and usually by good
>players.

Most of the usage I see is from folks who use it to cushion falling
damage. Thats an ok option, but personally my keyboard/mouse config
allows me about 4 weapon quickswap buttons and those are set aside for
Link Gun, Avril, Lightning Gun, and Chain Gun (both of the last for
anti-Raptor fire in case no Avrils are available). The Shield Gun
probably wouldn't make my list if I had a coupla more quickswap
options.

I'd not saying its hideous, but I do think that some fairly minor
tweaks would take it from mediocre to a staple choice.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Steven L Cox <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:r6uaa0dleaptaus0g7s5gn8p63tja1icq9@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 15 May 2004 01:05:24 GMT, Daniel Damouth
> <damouth@san.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Steven L Cox <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:1m47a0ht107hiam9ffb1h7220hvbhi26lj@4ax.com:
>>
>>> In other words - why put
>>> up a shield that will only keep you alive for 5 seconds if you
>>> could just kill your opponent in 2 seconds?
>>
>>You don't always have a weapon capable of hurting the opponent.
>>That's when I see players using the shield to get away.
>
> Saying "it was that or nothing" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement
> though, is it?

Nope. But I suspect the game designers experimented with different
strenghs of the shield, and concluded that it was better to make it
weak. I think that a strong, ubiquitous personal shield would vastly
alter game play and game balance. I believe the kind of game they were
going for, for better or worse, has lots of swift death.

>>> From a game mechanical standpoint, one must make defenses better
>>> or nobody will bother with it.
>>
>>I see them used on public servers not infrequently, and usually by
>>good players.
>
> Most of the usage I see is from folks who use it to cushion falling
> damage. Thats an ok option, but personally my keyboard/mouse config
> allows me about 4 weapon quickswap buttons and those are set aside
> for Link Gun, Avril, Lightning Gun, and Chain Gun (both of the last
> for anti-Raptor fire in case no Avrils are available). The Shield
> Gun probably wouldn't make my list if I had a coupla more quickswap
> options.

I have 10 quick weapon keys, ranging from 0 to 9 on my keyboard, and I
use them all, including alternate fires.

> I'd not saying its hideous, but I do think that some fairly minor
> tweaks would take it from mediocre to a staple choice.

I think so too, but I don't have the foresight to tell whether a game
with a strong personal shield would be better or worse than the game we
have today.

You might be right.

-Dan / :TsT:Tuber
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Steven L Cox wrote:

> In other words - why put up a shield that will only keep you alive for
> 5 seconds if you could just kill your opponent in 2 seconds?

A shield gun can keep you alive for 5 seconds? Wow! That is news to me!
Getting slimed, can kill me instantly with 150 health, 150 shield, and a
shield gun being used.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 04:54:03 GMT, Daniel Damouth <damouth@san.rr.com>
wrote:

>Steven L Cox <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:r6uaa0dleaptaus0g7s5gn8p63tja1icq9@4ax.com:
>
>> Saying "it was that or nothing" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement
>> though, is it?
>
>Nope. But I suspect the game designers experimented with different
>strenghs of the shield, and concluded that it was better to make it
>weak. I think that a strong, ubiquitous personal shield would vastly
>alter game play and game balance. I believe the kind of game they were
>going for, for better or worse, has lots of swift death.

Oh, I'm sure they tested up and down the utility scale (or at least I
hope so), but sometimes game developers don't make the best game
designers. And "ubiquitous" doesn't hafta come into play with a
decreasing-strength shield, the weapon could be made more useful
without a serious impact on gamespeed IMO.

>> Most of the usage I see is from folks who use it to cushion falling
>> damage. Thats an ok option, but personally my keyboard/mouse config
>> allows me about 4 weapon quickswap buttons and those are set aside
>> for Link Gun, Avril, Lightning Gun, and Chain Gun (both of the last
>> for anti-Raptor fire in case no Avrils are available). The Shield
>> Gun probably wouldn't make my list if I had a coupla more quickswap
>> options.
>
>I have 10 quick weapon keys, ranging from 0 to 9 on my keyboard, and I
>use them all, including alternate fires.

That isn't quite what I was speaking of, I don't consider 9 a
"quickkey" when I'm controlling my movement with WASD and the mouse as
its too disruptive to go for that key during gameplay. My quickkeys
are Q and E which can be tagged without serious interference, and my
MS mouse has a coupla extra buttons on the side for two more
quickkeys. The rest of the weapons get scrollwheel-accessed.

>> I'd not saying its hideous, but I do think that some fairly minor
>> tweaks would take it from mediocre to a staple choice.
>
>I think so too, but I don't have the foresight to tell whether a game
>with a strong personal shield would be better or worse than the game we
>have today.
>
>You might be right.

In both our favors, I don't think much foresight is necessary to see
the weapon being generally under-used in much the same way the Link
Gun is too useful. We'd all still use it even if all it could do is
heal nodes/vehicles, but it happens to be a rather potent offensive
weapon as well - good damage against infantry, vehicles, and
nodes/cores.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

: That isn't quite what I was speaking of, I don't consider 9 a
: "quickkey" when I'm controlling my movement with WASD and the mouse as
: its too disruptive to go for that key during gameplay. My quickkeys
: are Q and E which can be tagged without serious interference, and my
: MS mouse has a coupla extra buttons on the side for two more
: quickkeys. The rest of the weapons get scrollwheel-accessed.

Bah. The scroll wheel is far slower and less efficient than reaching for 9
would ever be. I use both the 0-9 keys and the scroll wheel to select
weapons, but I almost never use the scroll wheel.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Sun, 16 May 2004 20:45:29 -0400, "Tweek" <noway@jose.com> wrote:

>: That isn't quite what I was speaking of, I don't consider 9 a
>: "quickkey" when I'm controlling my movement with WASD and the mouse as
>: its too disruptive to go for that key during gameplay. My quickkeys
>: are Q and E which can be tagged without serious interference, and my
>: MS mouse has a coupla extra buttons on the side for two more
>: quickkeys. The rest of the weapons get scrollwheel-accessed.
>
>Bah. The scroll wheel is far slower and less efficient than reaching for 9
>would ever be. I use both the 0-9 keys and the scroll wheel to select
>weapons, but I almost never use the scroll wheel.

It is slower, but when used for the lesser-needed weapons it rarely
matters. Quickkeys for the commonly needed (Link) or rapid-response
(Avril) weapons. Seldom do I have a split-second need for the Goop
Gun.

If you use WASD and you're taking your hand off all movement controls
to stab for 9... thats more control than I'd want to lose for even a
split-second.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Toby Newman <google@asktoby.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94E8A5616E94googleasktobycom@127.0.0.1>...
> Stephen L Cox:
>
> >> Shieldgun efficiency is worthy of a whole
> >> other thread. That weapon/tool needs some
> >> serious tweaking to make it worth binding to a key
>
> Please share your gems :)

In can be useful in Assualt game when you need to stand stationary
over an objective to complete it. The extra 1 second can help flip
that lever...