Question Shorted 4 drives after installing new PSU - Repair/Recovery advice needed.

[adamk2424]

Hey folks, I appreciate in advance any knowledge or advice you can share.

I was upgrading from a Corsair CX600m PSU to an EVGA Supernova 750 P2 PSU. I had 2 SSD's and 2 HDD's as storage, with an M.2 as the boot drive. I replaced the GPU, CPU and Motherboard cables but kept the Sata cables in place on the drives. As I have now learned, you cannot reuse Sata power cables when switching PSU manufacturers. Even though they appear the same and will plug in, apparently the pin-outs are different and it shorted all 4 drives.

I wasn't sure why none of the Sata drives were showing up after starting the system, so I disconnected all the old cables and replaced them with the new EVGA ones. Now the system would not even turn on, just a click from the PSU. I disconnected all but my main 2tb SSD storage drive and hit power. It started, but I quickly noticed that there was smoke and arc light coming from the SSD in my hand and ripped the Sata power out of it. On the drive you can see the melted spot right past the connector on the plastic housing.

Should I even try to connect the other 3 drives to another PC and see if I can get any data off of them, or would that be unlikely to work? I worry that trying it could do more damage that would make data recovery harder/impossible.

How likely is data recovery/drive repair to be able to save the data? My last experience with data recovery was very expensive and they failed to save 99% of the files from a dead disc drive. I found this thread, which makes it look possible but is way beyond my capability.

Question - Mixed Up PSU Cables to Drives: What is Broken?

Hello, I got a new PSU because my old one died out. So being the clueless builder I am, I made a rookie mistake of using the old SATA cables (HDD, DVD Drive, & SSD) with my new PSU (I used the new cables for everything else). After I turned on my computer the first time, there was some smoke...

forums.tomshardware.com

TLDR Used wrong manufacturer sata power cables, drives shorted. Try them on another PC, send to recovery service or no hope?

Thank you.

 

[USAFRet]

A good analogy for these mismatched pinout connectors is, you pull 220V service for your laundry dryer, and terminate with 110V outlet part (because it's cheaper?). Maybe you put a red warning sticker indicating 220V outlet... but at some point your tenant can plug the washer (110V) into it and burn your basement. Can you say that's 100% tenants fault?

Changing plugs like that is against code. 100% the fault of who did that.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Changing plugs like that is against code. 100% the fault of who did that.

you bring up an excellent point. Can we make a code for the PSU modular cable connectors then?

 

[USAFRet]

you bring up an excellent point. Can we make a code for the PSU modular cable connectors then?

Convince them to add it into the ATX standard.

 

[jonnyguru]

Why not just standardize the pin outs on PSU's? They seem like a fairly standard function, not sure why they would benefit from using different arrangements.

Because everyone came out with modular PSUs around the same time and it's not like they got together as a consortium to standardize the pin out. So a good number of PSUs came out with different pinout within a two to three year period.

Ok.. So why not standardize now? Because by doing so, would make cables from old PSUs incompatible with cables from new PSUs within the same brand. Example: If EVGA decided to change their pinout to be like Seasonic, then your old EVGA cables in your new EVGA PSU would still end up frying your drives. So you're still in the same boat as before.

Is there hope? Yes. New comers to the PSU market are adopting existing pinouts. For example: BitFenix and Adata (XPG) use the same pinout as Corsair. EVGA is a relatively newcomer to the market. I have no idea why they opted to create their own pinout instead of adopting either Corsair's or Seasonic's.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Because by doing so, would make cables from old PSUs incompatible with cables from new PSUs within the same brand.

this is a valid point.. hmmm maybe the new standard can move to that SuperFlower 3 by 3 connector (if they give up their IP)
Something has to be done.

 

[DRagor]

Because everyone came out with modular PSUs around the same time and it's not like they got together as a consortium to standardize the pin out. So a good number of PSUs came out with different pinout within a two to three year period.

Wait a sec ... doesn't Corsair have 2 or 3 cable types that are not compatible between them?

In any case, a warning "Do not use cables from other models" printed in big letters on modular panel should be enough, and some models do have those. If somebody is stubborn enough to ignore that ...

OP - I would not put those drives into another PC. In current state that might be dangerous.

 

[mdd1963]

such returns are accepted no question asked these days. At least with amazon and newegg.

They would not accept the returns if someone dares mention the truth, "I killed my drives using incompatible modular cables with wrong pinouts from PSU to drives"...

Ethics are another debate entirely.

 

[USAFRet]

such returns are accepted no question asked these days. At least with amazon and newegg.

Within the first 30 days, yes.

After that, it goes through the manufacturer.

And this is just for the drives.
The PSU is probably NOT damaged.

 

[Pextaxmx]

They would not accept the returns if someone dares mention the truth, "I killed my drives using incompatible modular cables with wrong pinouts from PSU to drives"...

Ethics are another debate entirely.

PC connectors are 99% Poka-Yoke'd and standardized allowing mix and match. The PSU modular connectors are pretty much the only exception. People will return the PSU mostly without even realizing it was a user error. This is not a clear cut ethics issue.

In automotive industry, if someone dies due to a user error, but the user error was due to failure of proper Poka-Yoke, the manufacturer takes all the blame.

 

[jonnyguru]

Wait a sec ... doesn't Corsair have 2 or 3 cable types that are not compatible between them?

Nope. Only difference between Type 3 and Type 4 is that there's a 10+14 and 10+18, respectively, on the 24-pin. And even if you manage to jam the 10+14-pin into the 10+18-pin, you won't hurt anything. The 8-pin and 6-pin connectors are all the same regardless of Type 3 and Type 4.

AX1200 is different, but you can't physically plug it into a Type3/Type 4 socket. Same with the old AX from a decade ago.

In any case, a warning "Do not use cables from other models" printed in big letters on modular panel should be enough, and some models do have those. If somebody is stubborn enough to ignore that ...

You mean like this?

https://imgur.com/a/nuRT3Iy

View: https://imgur.com/a/nuRT3Iy

 

[USAFRet]

PC connectors are 99% Poka-Yoke'd and standardized allowing mix and match. The PSU modular connectors are pretty much the only exception. People will return the PSU mostly without even realizing it was a user error. This is not a clear cut ethics issue.

Returning the PSU to the manufacturer will show zero fault of the device in their analysis.
And that same PSU is returned to the customer.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Returning the PSU to the manufacturer will show zero fault of the device in their analysis.
And that same PSU is returned to the customer.

yes but amazon, newegg, bestbuy will refund the money within the return period, no questions asked.

 

[USAFRet]

yes but amazon, newegg, bestbuy will refund the money within the return period, no questions asked.

Yes, as mentioned above.

 

[DSzymborski]

PC connectors are 99% Poka-Yoke'd and standardized allowing mix and match. The PSU modular connectors are pretty much the only exception. People will return the PSU mostly without even realizing it was a user error. This is not a clear cut ethics issue.

In automotive industry, if someone dies due to a user error, but the user error was due to failure of proper Poka-Yoke, the manufacturer takes all the blame.

I suspect Corsair, EVGA, etc. know exactly what they're responsible for and what they're not without your legal advice. Where did you get your JD again?

If your idea made any financial sense to companies, it would already be done. You're making up all the benefits and ignoring all the costs. Pretty much anything can look like a good using that recipe.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Where did you get your JD again?

from Harvard obviously LOL I am not talking about their legal responsibility by any means. I am just speculating users may return PSUs without knowledge and cost manufacturers as a result (hence maybe some motivation for companies to take action).

The automotive line is just to highlight the fact that having a warning sign on the PSU, and relying on consumers to follow the instructions without fool-proof design won't work, and won't give basis to fully blame fool customers when something goes wrong.
Again, I am not talking about any legal stuff or comparing human fatality to fried-SSD hazard.

Keep in mind, we are not in a corporate strategy meeting or anything... we are posting stuff on a internet forum. That said, I don't think points I made here today are complete nonsense. Actually quite valid in my opinion.

EDIT: wait a minute.... I assume this forum is supposed to be a voice of consumers mostly. Why do I feel like arguing with an army of corporate representatives? Are you guys corporate undercover agents????

 

[fzabkar]

I'm on the consumer's side. In my opinion these non-standardised modular cables were a foreseeable problem. The industry should have got together and agreed upon a standard, whatever the cost. Unfortunately nothing will change until lawyers get involved, and that will only happen when someone is hurt.

 

[jonnyguru]

The automotive line is just to highlight the fact that having a warning sign on the PSU, and relying on consumers to follow the instructions without fool-proof design won't work, and won't give basis to fully blame fool customers when something goes wrong.
o I feel like arguing with an army of corporate representatives? Are you guys corporate undercover agents????

Even in automotive, you can have the same connector type do two different things, so it's a poor analogy.

I'm on the consumer's side. In my opinion these non-standardised modular cables were a foreseeable problem. The industry should have got together and agreed upon a standard, whatever the cost. Unfortunately nothing will change until lawyers get involved, and that will only happen when someone is hurt.

Again, you change the connector type now, where everyone is using the same connector, and you still have a problem, only on greater magnitude since you then end up with the same brand product using different connector types because they changes to meet some sort of standardization.

 

[Pextaxmx]

Even in automotive, you can have the same connector type do two different things, so it's a poor analogy.

it was about user operation, not about assembly. If the design cannot prevent user errors, automotive companies recall cars at their expense. So this analogy was valid.

Cars are pre-assembled. PSU is basically a DIY kit - assembly is rather user operation

Again, you change the connector type now, where everyone is using the same connector, and you still have a problem, only on greater magnitude since you then end up with the same brand product using different connector types because they changes to meet some sort of standardization.

introducing entirely different, physically incompatible connector form for the new standard will eliminate the issue you described.

 

[USAFRet]

introducing entirely different, physically incompatible connector form for the new standard will eliminate the issue you described.

Currently, a label that says "Don't do that" is far less expensive.

Eventually, some commonality may evolve and be subsumed into the ATX standard.
We ain't close to there yet.

 

[jonnyguru]

it was about user operation, not about assembly. If the design cannot prevent user errors, automotive companies recall cars at their expense. So this analogy was valid.

Cars are pre-assembled. PSU is basically a DIY kit - assembly is rather user operation

In the eyes of a DIY person. The antiquated certification system currently in place in every country views PC components as something that is "assembled by a professional". That's why you need to have < 3mm exhaust holes on your exhaust (so nobody can poke something in there AFTER it's assembled), but internal (intake) holes are fair game.

introducing entirely different, physically incompatible connector form for the new standard will eliminate the issue you described.

Except nobody wants to pay for tooling.

 

[Pextaxmx]

In the eyes of a DIY person. The antiquated certification system currently in place in every country views PC components as something that is "assembled by a professional". That's why you need to have < 3mm exhaust holes on your exhaust (so nobody can poke something in there AFTER it's assembled), but internal (intake) holes are fair game.

this is an interesting bit of information. Basically, DIYing a PC is like doing DIY electrician or plumbing work for my house. If there is a fire or flood, I may not be covered because the work was done by a non-professional with no proper license.