[SOLVED] Should i get this Ups?

[bigjohnny]

I'm looking for a pure sinewave UPS for my PC and this is the cheapest i can find.But the reviews kinda worries me
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N18S/?th=1&psc=1

 

[jonnyguru]

Why do you need a pure sinewave UPS?

 

[bigjohnny]

Why do you need a pure sinewave UPS?

I have read that i need a pure sinewave UPS if i have an active PFC or 80+ power supply which i have

 

[jonnyguru]

I have read that i need a pure sinewave UPS if i have an active PFC or 80+ power supply which i have

Only if you have a garbage PSU. What PSU do you have?

 

[bigjohnny]

Only if you have a garbage PSU. What PSU do you have?

Antec Earthwatts 650w green 80+bronze

 

[jonnyguru]

Antec Earthwatts 650w green 80+bronze

You should be fine with a simulated sine wave UPS.

 

[bigjohnny]

You should be fine with a simulated sine wave UPS.

Okay thanks.So should i get one with same or higher watt than my PSU?

 

[jonnyguru]

Okay thanks.So should i get one with same or higher watt than my PSU?

Are you plugging more than your PC into the UPS? Like your monitor, etc?

 

[bigjohnny]

Are you plugging more than your PC into the UPS? Like your monitor, etc?

Yes

 

[jonnyguru]

Yes

Ok.. Well... everything you plug into the UPS uses power, so you shouldn't be looking at just how much power the PC uses, right?

 

[bigjohnny]

Ok.. Well... everything you plug into the UPS uses power, so you shouldn't be looking at just how much power the PC uses, right?

Right,also ive read that old PSU need pure sinewave and i could not find the exact release date for the Antec but have seen reviews as old as 9yrs.

 

[jonnyguru]

Right,also ive read that old PSU need pure sinewave and i could not find the exact release date for the Antec but have seen reviews as old as 9yrs.

Then you should be more concerned with getting a new PSU than getting an overpriced UPS.

 

[Karadjgne]

Shopping for a UPS that'll work for your pc is a pain in the rear. You really have to do some homework as to what the requirements are and what the needs are and what the differences are.

I have a Minuteman 700Pro. Very good little UPS, simulated sinewave. Worked great on my old Seasonic M12-II pc, no issues. That's an old, group regulated psu. Doesn't work on the newer pc with a Evga G2 550w, even though that was a very highly rated psu at the time. Reason being, the Minuteman has a switchover time of 15ms, but the Evga only has a holdup time of 12ms. So when the power goes off, the psu shuts down before the UPS kicks in.

For my psu, I'd require a line interactive UPS, where it always on battery supplement, not the cheaper ups that is only on AC power until power goes off.

Also have to figure how much life you want once power dies go out vs power usage by the pc. Pure sinewave UPS generally have very short battery life, maybe 10-15 minutes, whereas full loads on simulated sinewave UPS can be 30 minutes or more. So you'll need a somewhat accurate guess as to the power use of your pc, so can guage full load times, amount of watts needed etc.

Anyone can just buy something cheap and get a decent voltage output, but if full load sucks it dry in 3 minutes and you are expecting 30minutes, you wasted your money.

Reviews are a decent source of info, if professionally done, but wiki and Google will be of more use, just figuring out exactly what a UPS is, what are the different kinds, what you'll need etc.

 

[jonnyguru]

For my psu, I'd require a line interactive UPS, where it always on battery supplement, not the cheaper ups that is only on AC power until power goes off.

Line interactive is not always on battery. That's an online UPS you're thinking of. VERY expensive. All line interactive means is that it has an AVR built into the UPS.

https://community.fs.com/blog/line-interactive-vs-online-vs-offline-ups.html

 

[Karadjgne]

Right. The Inverter is always on, it's connected to the output, the battery is either charging or discharging, a single switch. Very fast switchover, 2-6ms on average. With a more standard standby ups, it's nothing more than a surge suppressor that has to turn everything over to discharge circuitry first before the battery will discharge. A lot slower. My Minuteman is @ 17 years old, on its 3rd or 4th battery, and isn't line interactive nor have AVR.

I'd need line interactive to get under the holdup time of that G2. I've tried a few different standby models, none have worked with any kind of consistency, so I'm not entirely accepting of the 2-10ms claims in the article since the G2 has a 12ms holdup, so should work every time, according to the math. That's assuming it's actually 12ms, and I didn't purchase a unit that far different from tested samples.

 

[jonnyguru]

Right. The Inverter is always on, it's connected to the output, the battery is either charging or discharging, a single switch. Very fast switchover, 2-6ms on average. With a more standard standby ups, it's nothing more than a surge suppressor that has to turn everything over to discharge circuitry first before the battery will discharge. A lot slower.

The DC to AC inverter is not always on. The AVR is on the mains. Not after the battery.

And actually, a standby UPS is literally a line interactive UPS without the AVR. A line interactive UPS is simply a standby UPS with an AVR.

A good standby UPS can switch over just as quickly as a line interactive. Line interactive just gives you the added feature of bucking and boosting the mains if they're +/- out of spec.

 

[Karadjgne]

Hmm. I've talked with you for years and never known you to be mistaken, so that's a little confusing.

From the article you posted :
Standby : The energy storage components—battery charger, battery, and inverter are off-line as far as the load is concerned,
It's a seperate circuit, the Inverter is not connected to the output unless power is interrupted.

Line interactive: This design offers additional filtering and yields reduced switching transients since the inverter is always on and connected to the output.
Inline circuit, the Inverter is the charger, doing double duty as AC to DC or DC to AC depending on the transfer switch.

Which is pretty much how I've known the difference, AVR just adds extra circuitry to involve the Inverter in a Standby, if necessary. With line interactive, AVR changes the inverters function, either dumping over voltage into charger or opening the battery output during under voltage.

Either one of those only happening during out of spec voltages.

 

[jonnyguru]

Line interactive: This design offers additional filtering and yields reduced switching transients since the inverter is always on and connected to the output.
Inline circuit, the Inverter is the charger, doing double duty as AC to DC or DC to AC depending on the transfer switch.

I missed that part. Maybe it's only true with certain UPS's. Perhaps server PSUs. The charger does not use AC, so it doesn't make sense to keep the DC to AC inverter charged. It would be horribly inefficient to do so. It would also cause the battery to fail prematurely.

All of the APC, CyberPower, etc. consumer level UPSs I've dealt with have AC converted to DC to charge the batteries. Then nothing comes from the batteries until there is a sense of loss of mains power. The AVR resides between the mains and the transfer switch, but AFTER the AC to DC conversion that charges the batter. And the DC to AC inverter remains dormant until the transfer switch is energized.

This might be more of what I'm used to seeing: https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/blog/how-does-a-ups-work/

 

[Karadjgne]

Charger has its own inverter, exactly no different to an auto battery charger, as the battery hits a % of charge, usually @ 90%-95% range, it goes into trickle mode.

Mains powers the charger, charger maintains the battery, battery hits the Inverter only at power loss/low voltage, according to AVR needs. Undervolts the battery engages to supplement the mains, overvolts get lost in the battery from the charger.

Exactly the same as line interactive, except where the final inverter is placed/used.

My apologies if this appears as an argument, not my intention at all, it just seems there's a lot of misunderstanding about UPS and like the Op, I'd like to know that what I'm buying is actually going to do the job intended and not be a hyped up waste of money. I do appreciate your thoughts on this, a lot.

 

[bigjohnny]

Shopping for a UPS that'll work for your pc is a pain in the rear. You really have to do some homework as to what the requirements are and what the needs are and what the differences are.

I have a Minuteman 700Pro. Very good little UPS, simulated sinewave. Worked great on my old Seasonic M12-II pc, no issues. That's an old, group regulated psu. Doesn't work on the newer pc with a Evga G2 550w, even though that was a very highly rated psu at the time. Reason being, the Minuteman has a switchover time of 15ms, but the Evga only has a holdup time of 12ms. So when the power goes off, the psu shuts down before the UPS kicks in.

For my psu, I'd require a line interactive UPS, where it always on battery supplement, not the cheaper ups that is only on AC power until power goes off.

Also have to figure how much life you want once power dies go out vs power usage by the pc. Pure sinewave UPS generally have very short battery life, maybe 10-15 minutes, whereas full loads on simulated sinewave UPS can be 30 minutes or more. So you'll need a somewhat accurate guess as to the power use of your pc, so can guage full load times, amount of watts needed etc.

Anyone can just buy something cheap and get a decent voltage output, but if full load sucks it dry in 3 minutes and you are expecting 30minutes, you wasted your money.

Reviews are a decent source of info, if professionally done, but wiki and Google will be of more use, just figuring out exactly what a UPS is, what are the different kinds, what you'll need etc.

So how do i know the exact power my pc uses?

 

[Karadjgne]

Power use fluctuates, so there is no exact number, but you can get a general idea by your components. Most pc's average @ 75w for the motherboard, storage, fans ram etc. Add to that the power consumption (you can look up reviews that'll give you those numbers) of the cpu and the gpu (most ppl just use the TDP). That'll give you a maximum number, which is about physically impossible to hit as you'll never maximize power usage on every single component simultaneously.

But that's the number you need, most high end pc's will see 75mobo + 100cpu + 250gpu. Meaning a minimum of 425w capable ups. Uber serious pc's will see a 100w mobo, + 200cpu and 350gpu or a 650w minimum. But they'll go larger as that'll put the full load pc value at closer to half the value of full load according to the ups. So if a 1100w ups is 30min at half load and 10mins at full load, a 500w Ioad might be max pc, but it's half of ups, or 30 minute runtime ±.

 

[JoBalz]

I'm looking for a pure sinewave UPS for my PC and this is the cheapest i can find.But the reviews kinda worries me
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N18S/?th=1&psc=1

I'll speak for the Brand. I currently use the 1000VA and it has done a first rate job, very dependable. Power in our area has a tendency towards occasional momentary brownouts as well as power going down. The UPS has always switched over by the time I realize the power had gone off. Software is fairly good, no complaints for this personal user. Price on the one you mentioned very good. Others have great comments here so it's just going to depend on your needs and rig's power draw. I always plan for a minimum of my computer and the monitor, since you'd need a monitor to be able to shut down if you don't have it set up for automatic shutdown (mine does if I'm away from desk, but pefer to manually save work and shut down if I can. I also use a Cyberpower UPS for my TV and DirecTV box (of course, w/out the additional software).