Should I have just purchased a Ryzen 1800X over the 1700?

[R3xT3x]

Hello everyone. Super new so I am going to try to give as much (maybe too much???) information so maybe someone can answer more efficiently.

MAIN ISSUE: Why are my programs running so slow between simply opening and running each one?! Is it just the limitations that I signed up for when I purchased the Ryzen 1700? I can't figure it out at all. CPU Usage is only 3%. Boot time is fantastic due to being on SSD.

MY OLD SYSTEM COMPONENTS: Was a mid-range gaming rig that is of non-importance. It now sits on my daughter's desk. I needed a serious workstation upgrade.

MAIN REASON FOR UPGRADE: I needed a great computer for 4k editing; for many years to come. This system is strictly for editing purposes. Games will not be installed on here.

BACKGROUND INFO: I researched for months what I wanted and MADE SURE that all components played well together.

WHAT I SPENT: upwards of $3000 :/ (Thanks to mining operations...ugh)

WHAT I GOT:
Motherboard: Asrock X370 Taichi
Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 1700 Eight-Core Processor
Speed 3.0 GHz (3.6 GHz turbo)

DRIVES:
#1) 1TB WD Black (Mass Storage)
#2) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Boot Drive)
#3) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Storage)

RAM 32GB G.Skill Flare (2400) - Most Stable with this setup.

Video Card: ASUS Radeon RX 580 Series 4GB *PROBLEM #1* (Have two GTX 1070 ti's on their way as we speak)

Windows 10 64-bit (Fresh Digital Install)

PS: 850W EVGA (plenty)

Monitor (Doesn't matter right???)

After updating everything imaginable in this machine including a BIOS update to get my RAM to run stable and be recognized I am now just experiencing slow processing with simple freaking opening of programs! Or am I? Did I just think that the Ryzen 1700 was going to be faster than it really is? I am not that technical to know the ins and outs of what I should expect or have expected. Does this make sense?

But I can say that when I did my research, the Ryzen 1700 was supposed to be very promising for editing 4k video. After realizing I had shot my self in the foot by going with the wrong GPU for the job; I purchased two GTX 1070 ti's. That will fix my rendering problem within Adobe products but I am still besides myself on the overall poor performance. Maybe an 1800X is in order???

Any help on this matter would be great.
Al

 

[unclebun]

You give all kinds of equipment info, but when it comes to your problem, you are very vague. "my programs" "so slow". What programs? How slow? How are you quantifying this slowness?

That said, I will say that something in the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update cause one of my systems (also using a Ryzen, but a 1500) to go from being very fast to very slow at certain operations, in one application. It would make file saving, and copying to the clipboard take forever (relatively speaking), such as 20-30 seconds instead of less than 1 second. I narrowed the problem down to a combination of the Creators Update and the latest AMD video card driver. Any combination of rollback either of Windows version or of AMD video driver version to before a certain date fixed the problem. Neither Microsoft nor AMD or Corel were helpful. But it was a repeatable problem and workaround I confirmed through several days of wiping SSD's and reinstalling various versions of Windows 10 and AMD video drivers.

You may be experiencing something similar.

 

[cryoburner]

I agree that some better examples might help. Maybe it's just a result of not having the proper drivers installed or something. Specs-wise, it seems like it should be a fairly fast system. Have you verified that all the hardware is being recognized by the system properly, and that nothing is overheating and throttling performance? Maybe run some benchmarks and verify that everything is operating within a typical range for that hardware.

As for the 1800X over a 1700, they're ultimately pretty much the same CPU. They all start as the same chips, but AMD tests them and selects the ones that overclock slightly better, and assigns those to be sold as the 1800X, giving them faster stock clocks. However, pretty much all 1700s are capable of running at speeds comparable to an 1800X. They just need to have those clock rates and corresponding voltages manually assigned, aka overclocking. Even the bundled Wraith Spire cooler that comes with the 1700 should be capable of a decent amount of overclocking, being a cooler rated to handle 95 watt CPUs, on a CPU with a 65 watt TDP, though its effectiveness may depend on your system's overall cooling setup, and a third-party tower cooler may be a bit quieter and more effective with a higher overclock.

 

[R3xT3x]

You give all kinds of equipment info, but when it comes to your problem, you are very vague. "my programs" "so slow". What programs? How slow? How are you quantifying this slowness?

That said, I will say that something in the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update cause one of my systems (also using a Ryzen, but a 1500) to go from being very fast to very slow at certain operations, in one application. It would make file saving, and copying to the clipboard take forever (relatively speaking), such as 20-30 seconds instead of less than 1 second. I narrowed the problem down to a combination of the Creators Update and the latest AMD video card driver. Any combination of rollback either of Windows version or of AMD video driver version to before a certain date fixed the problem. Neither Microsoft nor AMD or Corel were helpful. But it was a repeatable problem and workaround I confirmed through several days of wiping SSD's and reinstalling various versions of Windows 10 and AMD video drivers.

You may be experiencing something similar.

Sorry bout' that dude. I figured I gave enough information but it would seem as this website's members are pretty vicious when not enough given... Shame on me.

I will relate the slowness to my previous mid-range build that my daughter has. It has an Intel Core i5-4460. When opening, per se; Chrome; my new computer takes literally 7 seconds to pop up and load all images. Previous computer; this was within a second. ANY and ALL programs I open in the new computer are definitely noticeably slower. For some reason; they are all opening within 5-7 seconds. (I counted the seconds it took to bring up this forum page to reply to you guys!) That is a huge difference in my book when it comes to what I am used to and how much technology has advanced throughout the years. I feel like I should get snappy responses from my simple programs for over 3000 bucks.

My internet speed you ask? 135Mbps as of 30 seconds ago. Upload speed is 25Mbps. I tested as well as multiple sites. (Wired Connection)

Thank you very much for pointing out the Creators update issue you had. I do currently have an AMD RX 580 up and running in this computer. So maybe when my GTX 1070 ti's arrive in the coming week; I will post back and let you know if there is any difference.

Last night; I took the plunge; again, and bought the 1800X to test the difference in speed between the two. I think that is what has to be done to get it right; what do you think?

 

[R3xT3x]

I agree that some better examples might help. Maybe it's just a result of not having the proper drivers installed or something. Specs-wise, it seems like it should be a fairly fast system. Have you verified that all the hardware is being recognized by the system properly, and that nothing is overheating and throttling performance? Maybe run some benchmarks and verify that everything is operating within a typical range for that hardware.

As for the 1800X over a 1700, they're ultimately pretty much the same CPU. They all start as the same chips, but AMD tests them and selects the ones that overclock slightly better, and assigns those to be sold as the 1800X, giving them faster stock clocks. However, pretty much all 1700s are capable of running at speeds comparable to an 1800X. They just need to have those clock rates and corresponding voltages manually assigned, aka overclocking. Even the bundled Wraith Spire cooler that comes with the 1700 should be capable of a decent amount of overclocking, being a cooler rated to handle 95 watt CPUs, on a CPU with a 65 watt TDP, though its effectiveness may depend on your system's overall cooling setup, and a third-party tower cooler may be a bit quieter and more effective with a higher overclock.

Thanks for replying. So I just ran Performance Test 9.0 and got some idea of where I rank in the world; and the Ryzen 1700 (As expected) was listed in the 98th Percentile. There are other aspects of this new PC that I am going to now want to change due to the results. HAHA. (See attached image)

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I ran Photoshop and used a timer to see how long it takes to come up and it was ready for me to use in 47 seconds. Doesn't this seem a little long? I also made sure EVERY single driver was updated and that everything in my device manager was playing nice. Everything checks out.

Thanks for the info on the AMD chips and the letting me know that they all start off the same. This I did not know. Since I am new to Overclocking; I will research and hope that helps if I decide to do it. Again; I just decided to order the 1800X and time the startup times myself between the two different speeds/chips.

Temps and other specs below. I do know that I am letting BIOS auto control the speed of my CPU...OC'ing may be the answer or just drop in the new CPU.

[/URL][/img]

 

[cryoburner]

DRIVES:
#1) 1TB WD Black (Mass Storage)
#2) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Boot Drive)
#3) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Storage)

Are you sure that both Windows 10 and your applications are installed to an SSD? The Disk Mark numbers look as though they're only measuring your mechanical mass storage drive, which makes me wonder. I'm not super familiar with Passmark or how it determines which drive to test, but it definitely seems to be returning the results for a mechanical drive there. A typical hard drive should return a score of not much more than 1,000 points in their test, similar to your results, but a fast SSD like a 960 EVO should score somewhere around 10,000 or more. If you're running that software off the mechanical drive, that would likely explain the performance differences you're seeing compared to an SSD.

 

[TechyInAZ]

The problem is not in your CPU that I am sure of. Only if the CPU was being maxed out would it of been a problem.

Something is wrong with your current OS I believe, either a program is hogging or glitching out windows to make it really slow.

I highly recommend doing a clean fresh installation of windows 10 and trying again.

 

[R3xT3x]

DRIVES:
#1) 1TB WD Black (Mass Storage)
#2) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Boot Drive)
#3) 500GB Samsung EVO 960 M.2 Ultra (Storage)

Are you sure that both Windows 10 and your applications are installed to an SSD? The Disk Mark numbers look as though they're only measuring your mechanical mass storage drive, which makes me wonder. I'm not super familiar with Passmark or how it determines which drive to test, but it definitely seems to be returning the results for a mechanical drive there. A typical hard drive should return a score of not much more than 1,000 points in their test, similar to your results, but a fast SSD like a 960 EVO should score somewhere around 10,000 or more. If you're running that software off the mechanical drive, that would likely explain the performance differences you're seeing compared to an SSD.

I just realized what you are talking about here...I have TWO exact directories on both the HDD and the SSD but the boot manager is on the HDD. So I bet they are running into some interference. I will do a fresh install. But won't I have to buy another license?! UGH. So expensive

 

[R3xT3x]

The problem is not in your CPU that I am sure of. Only if the CPU was being maxed out would it of been a problem.

Something is wrong with your current OS I believe, either a program is hogging or glitching out windows to make it really slow.

I highly recommend doing a clean fresh installation of windows 10 and trying again.

I am starting to believe that this is the problem. I bought the SSD a week after the HDD and the main components and cloned the HDD to the SSD. I guess the boot up is not happening on this SSD; due to the preformance numbers AND I tested by making the SSD, and only the SSD; the boot option. I got nothing on startup and had to change back to HDD.

Now I wonder if I can use the same build license or I have to buy another one.

 

[TechyInAZ]

The problem is not in your CPU that I am sure of. Only if the CPU was being maxed out would it of been a problem.

Something is wrong with your current OS I believe, either a program is hogging or glitching out windows to make it really slow.

I highly recommend doing a clean fresh installation of windows 10 and trying again.

I am starting to believe that this is the problem. I bought the SSD a week after the HDD and the main components and cloned the HDD to the SSD. I guess the boot up is not happening on this SSD; due to the preformance numbers AND I tested by making the SSD, and only the SSD; the boot option. I got nothing on startup and had to change back to HDD.

Now I wonder if I can use the same build license or I have to buy another one.

Ah that's your problem. I've had big issues in the past with cloning drives, fresh installs always work 100% correctly.

If you have windows 10, the license is built into your motherboard, CPU, and RAM basically. So you should be able to reinstall windows 10 on that machine without needing a product key.

 

[R3xT3x]

So since I posted a reply to you TechyInAz (I live in AZ too...)

I have literally been trying to get the fresh install on the SSD and now I am having that great ol' problem of GPT vs. MBR. and all that fun. I do have a UEFI Bootable USB drive so this helps but I need to adjust all sorts of settings in the BIOS and I need to disconnect the HDD and one of the SSD's.

This will take place tomorrow. This has been a long; unfruitful, night.

Thanks for all the answers today guys...we try again tomorrow.

 

[cryoburner]

Yeah, it's best to leave the hard drive disconnected until after the fresh install of Windows is up and running on the SSD.

 

[R3xT3x]

Yeah, it's best to leave the hard drive disconnected until after the fresh install of Windows is up and running on the SSD.

Ok...so this WHOLE issue is now resolved. After a fresh install of Windows 10 on a Samsung EVO 960 SSD all issues have been resolved. The issue of slow Ryzen 1700 performance was an issue with two windows installs conflicting with each other.

As for the users following this thread in the future; if you are having SSD issues then check these two links if you have the Asrock X370 Taichi MB: It fixed the problem exactly!

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1236
http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4775&title=x370-taichi-fast-boot

The new PC is actually screaming fast.

I am thankful for all who responded and spent time on this issue.