Should I upgrade my CPU?

[Ficklestein]

Hey guys, I have a few questions. I tend to game a lot on my computer and have decided to finally upgrade my PC. I have had some problems with Arma 2 generally with the Wasteland mod during multiplayer. My GPU should be more than capable of handling the game somewhere over 20 FPS, but that does not seem to be the case. I suspect the CPU may be the problem. As I recall (not very sure, may be doubtful), I have attempted to reduce the graphics setting from the highest settings to the lowest to no avail; the game still ran at 20 fps.

My current PC specs are as follows:

CPU: I3 540 @ 3.07 Ghz
Motherboard: Intel DH55PJ
GPU: GTX 480
PSU: Antec HCG-750

- I'm planning to upgrade my CPU as a priority, should I do so or will it not lead to any significant difference?

- Is it possible to know whether my CPU is bottlenecking my GPU even though it is never above %70 or so load?

- Will an AMD FX-8350 Eight Core lead to any performance increase? If not, any suggestions between $100-$200 alternatives that would?

- Is an AMD FX-8350 compatible with my current motherboard or should I buy a new one? If so, any suggestions between $100-$200?

Thanks!

 

[ewok93]

The 8350 will be a massive performance boost, and yes you will need a new motherboard. I suggests an Asus M5A97 R2, they can be found for around $130. You should really consider a new GPU too, that one you have is not great.

 

[jay_nar2012]

Upgrading to a i7 870 will increase performance in gaming and they will vary in price as they are sold on ebay or amazon so you will have to look around

You should also consider upgrading your GPU.

 

[Ficklestein]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I tend to rely on http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html as a reference. Is it a good thing to do so or does benchmarking (or at least that website) not provide a proper analysis of hardware and comparisons?

Anyway, my GPU is overclocked at Core Clock 840 Mhz, Memory clock at 1900 MHz, and Core voltage at 1050 mV. My PerformanceTest score for 3D graphics (the program used to determine scores on the aforementioned website) was 4,982 which ranked higher than average for a GTX 480, surpassing the average for the GTX 580.

That's why I'm not worried about my GPU, but much more concerned about my CPU which is extremely outdated (scoring a laughable CPU mark of 3,262).

I also checked the I7-870, it has a score of 5,459 while the 8350 has a score of 9,069. Yes, too much reliance on that one website. Can't expect much from the inexperienced like myself.


Again, this may be based on faulty and fallacious assumptions and logic on my part so please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Nevertheless, thanks for the answers. Any clarifications and help would be extremely appreciated!

 

[ewok93]

That's not too accurate, and even a 580 is inadequate.

 

[photonboy]

I saw the i7-860 on E-Bay but the price was all over the place. I did see it for $100 but I don't know what kind of guarantee you'd get.

Upgrading:
You actually have to buy the following THREE items:
1) CPU
2) Motherboard
3) Windows (your copy is likely Activated/tied to the motherboard)

I recommend the i5-4670K which is roughly $230 but I haven't priced today. A half decent motherboard is, say, $125 and Windows (recommend W8.1 64-bit) is $95.

So that's about $450 to upgrade mainly your CPU.

So, you basically have THREE CHOICES:

1. Do nothing/Buy new PC later.
2. i7-860 on EBay
3. Upgrade the CPU/Motherboard/Windows

 

[Ficklestein]

I see what you're saying. A few more questions:

- Is it worth upgrading my CPU and motherboard or is my motherboard "acceptable" as is with only the CPU needing an upgrade? That is to say, should I spend a bit more and buy a new motherboard or not?

- What's the difference between the i7-860 and the i7-870? That the latter is simply factory overclocked or are there other differences worth noting?

- Are the 860 and the 870 the only options I have for a budget of $200 or so?

- How good are the 860 and 870 processors generally? Should I buy one of them or opt for something better later?

Thanks.

 

[Ficklestein]

I see what you're saying. A few more questions:
- Is it worth upgrading my CPU and motherboard or is my motherboard "acceptable" as is with only the CPU needing an upgrade? That is to say, should I spend a bit more and buy a new motherboard or not?

Your motherboard is definitely worth upgrading. Your current processor is several CPU generations (!) old. Upgrading to a 860 or 870 would make a performance difference, but would still be a waste of money, as you would be sticking to the same obsolete generation.

The good news is that the memory technology has not changed since then; so you can still use your old DDR3 modules in a new mainboard (their timing would not be optimal, but that is a minor detail that you would never notice).

Photonboy made a good recommendation with the Core i5-4670, but he suggested buying an expensive mainboard, and there is hardly any benefit to that. With the latest CPU generations, so many functions have been included into the CPU that the mainboard is of greatly reduced importance. You can get a cheap mainboard around $70 and will never notice a difference!

Also, think twice before getting the K-version of the processor. The K-version enables you to overclock the processor, squeezing out some more clock speed that way. However, this comes with several catches that need to be considered (besides potential instability):

• 
  ■ The K-version of the processor is more expensive than the regular version. So the additional clock speed is not for free; Intel charges you for it.
  ■ Officially, you need a Z87 chipset to be able to use the overclocking feature of the K-processor. However, Z87 mainboards are significantly more expensive than their B85 counterparts, so Intel charges you another time for overclocking. IMHO this defeats the overclocking idea of getting more performance for free. However, there are some mainboards out there the BIOS of which uses an exploit to work around this and offer overclocking without Z87 chipset. Intel is furious about this, but cannot do anything about it except not supporting future microcode updates for the exploit (which is not much of an issue from your standpoint). The Asrock B85M is an example for a cheap mainboard that supports "Non-Z-overclocking".
  ■ K-version processors have their virtualization features disabled. So by buying the overclockable variant of the CPU, you lose other features, features that are usually not relevant for gaming, but highly relevant if one day you want to install VirtualBox or a similar software and try out software in a safe sandbox where it cannot damage your Windows installation even if it contains malware.
  ■ By overclocking you lose most of the highly advanced power-saving features of the modern CPUs. Your processor will consume a lot more power and generate a lot more heat which drives up your electricity bill, heats up your case and requires more noisy fans.

But again, if I were you I would never consider spending additional money on an ancient CPU generation when for only $70 you can get a mainboard that supports all modern technologies, which not only comprises modern CPUs, but also USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, and PCI-E 3.0.

Thanks a lot for the information, helped a lot and convinced me. Do you have any specific examples of a mainboard and cpu that would fit your parameters? You state that the Core i5-4670 is a good choice but that the mainboard suggested with it was not, so what mainboard(s) should I look into? Are there any viable alternatives to the it-4670 that do not range in the $300-400+ area?

 

[beyondlogic]

I see what you're saying. A few more questions:
- Is it worth upgrading my CPU and motherboard or is my motherboard "acceptable" as is with only the CPU needing an upgrade? That is to say, should I spend a bit more and buy a new motherboard or not?

Your motherboard is definitely worth upgrading. Your current processor is several CPU generations (!) old. Upgrading to a 860 or 870 would make a performance difference, but would still be a waste of money, as you would be sticking to the same obsolete generation.

The good news is that the memory technology has not changed since then; so you can still use your old DDR3 modules in a new mainboard (their timing would not be optimal, but that is a minor detail that you would never notice).

Photonboy made a good recommendation with the Core i5-4670, but he suggested buying an expensive mainboard, and there is hardly any benefit to that. With the latest CPU generations, so many functions have been included into the CPU that the mainboard is of greatly reduced importance. You can get a cheap mainboard around $70 and will never notice a difference!

Also, think twice before getting the K-version of the processor. The K-version enables you to overclock the processor, squeezing out some more clock speed that way. However, this comes with several catches that need to be considered (besides potential instability):

• 
  ■ The K-version of the processor is more expensive than the regular version. So the additional clock speed is not for free; Intel charges you for it.
  ■ Officially, you need a Z87 chipset to be able to use the overclocking feature of the K-processor. However, Z87 mainboards are significantly more expensive than their B85 counterparts, so Intel charges you another time for overclocking. IMHO this defeats the overclocking idea of getting more performance for free. However, there are some mainboards out there the BIOS of which uses an exploit to work around this and offer overclocking without Z87 chipset. Intel is furious about this, but cannot do anything about it except not supporting future microcode updates for the exploit (which is not much of an issue from your standpoint). The Asrock B85M is an example for a cheap mainboard that supports "Non-Z-overclocking".
  ■ K-version processors have their virtualization features disabled. So by buying the overclockable variant of the CPU, you lose other features, features that are usually not relevant for gaming, but highly relevant if one day you want to install VirtualBox or a similar software and try out software in a safe sandbox where it cannot damage your Windows installation even if it contains malware.
  ■ By overclocking you lose most of the highly advanced power-saving features of the modern CPUs. Your processor will consume a lot more power and generate a lot more heat which drives up your electricity bill, heats up your case and requires more noisy fans.

But again, if I were you I would never consider spending additional money on an ancient CPU generation when for only $70 you can get a mainboard that supports all modern technologies, which not only comprises modern CPUs, but also USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, and PCI-E 3.0.

Thanks a lot for the information, helped a lot and convinced me. Do you have any specific examples of a mainboard and cpu that would fit your parameters? You state that the Core i5-4670 is a good choice but that the mainboard suggested with it was not, so what mainboard(s) should I look into? Are there any viable alternatives to the it-4670 that do not range in the $300-400+ area?

try using direct x 9 not 11 older cards tend to do better with direct x 9 and hate 11 due to 11 being newer alot of cards bombed in frame rates.

newer rig included os due to you will probly have to wipe your harddrive due to existing os will not work due to being married to the motherboard unless you have a os disc to reinstall.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2nt7B

gtx 480 is still a good card but it draws alot of power unlike the newer cards

later upgrade the gtx 480 to a gtx 760
http://gpuboss.com/gpus/GeForce-GTX-760-vs-GeForce-GTX-480

 

[beyondlogic]

try using direct x 9 not 11 older cards tend to do better with direct x 9 and hate 11 due to 11 being newer alot of cards bombed in frame rates.

He'll be hard pressed deciding that, for in near 100% of the times it is the game that is either programmed for Dx9 or Dx11. Very few games leave you a choice there. Recommending to go for Dx9 is pretty much equivalent to playing old games. There are no halfway recent Dx9 games that I would know about.

um i use direct x 9 on saints row 3 on my old pc and it works fine if i use x 11 my frames go down a tonne most games do have the option for now at least thats why i am saying he should upgrade to 760 later on when he has the money

 

[beyondlogic]

Perhaps I am not playing your variety of games, but e.g. in Starcraft 2 I fail to see an option that sets the game to Dx9.

star craft 2 should direct x 9 not 11

in min requirements found here it states it can use direct x9 some just require it to be tweaked

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/starcraft-ii-system-requirements

and some games install direct x 9 to run its usually on the discs most give the option of 9 or 11

e.g when saints row 3 pops up it says direct x 9 or 11