[SOLVED] Should I wait for the msi b450 tomahawk max to come out or buy the standard tomahawk?

[ProPlayerGR]

Hello everyone. Next week I'll be ordering my pc parts, which are the 3600, a msi b450 board and ram. Because I live in Greece, the availability for the standard tomahawk in low and I was wondering if I should wait a week for the max version to come out. I really want to buy the parts, so I don't like waiting. Will the max version release soon enough or not? If not, I'll buy a b450 tomahawk. What do you think? Thanks in advance.

 

[JBHapgood]

Hello everyone. Next week I'll be ordering my pc parts, which are the 3600, a msi b450 board and ram. Because I live in Greece, the availability for the standard tomahawk in low and I was wondering if I should wait a week for the max version to come out. I really want to buy the parts, so I don't like waiting. Will the max version release soon enough or not? If not, I'll buy a b450 tomahawk. What do you think? Thanks in advance.

If you're planning to use a third-generation Ryzen CPU, waiting is the smartest thing to do if you don't want to spend the money for an X570 board.

As far as I know, the Max version will include a BIOS that is capable of booting a Ryzen 3000 out of the box in some fashion. It will also include a larger BIOS chip, allowing the support for all three Ryzen generations along with the fancy colorful graphical BIOS interface. The non-Max Tomahawk will require a BIOS flash before you can even attempt to boot a Ryzen 3000. A lot of people are having problems with all the BIOS version currently available, and the smaller BIOS chip will always be stuck with the "ugly" stripped-down text interface.

Either version will require a BIOS update that does not yet exist before stable operation is possible with a Ryzen 3000. In other words, no matter what you do you'll have to wait for AMD and MSI to finish that BIOS.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

If you're planning to use a third-generation Ryzen CPU, waiting is the smartest thing to do if you don't want to spend the money for an X570 board.

As far as I know, the Max version will include a BIOS that is capable of booting a Ryzen 3000 out of the box in some fashion. It will also include a larger BIOS chip, allowing the support for all three Ryzen generations along with the fancy colorful graphical BIOS interface. The non-Max Tomahawk will require a BIOS flash before you can even attempt to boot a Ryzen 3000. A lot of people are having problems with all the BIOS version currently available, and the smaller BIOS chip will always be stuck with the "ugly" stripped-down text interface.

Either version will require a BIOS update that does not yet exist before stable operation is possible with a Ryzen 3000. In other words, no matter what you do you'll have to wait for AMD and MSI to finish that BIOS.

I don't want to pay that much for a x570 board. I also don't like waiting too long. I've waited too many years to get rid of my fx 9370 and I don't want to wait a month more. I'll be returning from vacation this week, so I would like to buy the parts once I get home. I initially wanted to buy a 2600x but I watched benchmarks and the 3600 seemed so good. However I don't how much better it will be with my gtx 1070 than 2600x. I will only use my pc for gaming at 1080p 60hz but I'll upgrade my monitor in 3-4 months. Should I just go with a 2600x and avoid all the fuss?

 

[ConanLock]

I don't want to pay that much for a x570 board. I also don't like waiting too long. I've waited too many years to get rid of my fx 9370 and I don't want to wait a month more. I'll be returning from vacation this week, so I would like to buy the parts once I get home. I initially wanted to buy a 2600x but I watched benchmarks and the 3600 seemed so good. However I don't how much better it will be with my gtx 1070 than 2600x. I will only use my pc for gaming at 1080p 60hz but I'll upgrade my monitor in 3-4 months. Should I just go with a 2600x and avoid all the fuss?

If you get the standard b450 Tomahawk, then you will be able to update it yourself using the FlashBIOS button and a USB, once you have read the instructions carefully. As long as you do what it says, it should work fine. You will have a fully functioning Ryzen 3600, in a fully functioning BIOS that only looks different. However, waiting for the b450 max will mean you won't have to update it, and you will get the full BIOS.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hello everyone. Next week I'll be ordering my pc parts, which are the 3600, a msi b450 board and ram. Because I live in Greece, the availability for the standard tomahawk in low and I was wondering if I should wait a week for the max version to come out. I really want to buy the parts, so I don't like waiting. Will the max version release soon enough or not? If not, I'll buy a b450 tomahawk. What do you think? Thanks in advance.

If you can wait then definitely wait. I think even MSI has said that so I'm pretty sure the MAX will come out as soon as they can get it into the marketplace.

BTW... I have a 3700x on a B450M Mortar, basically the same board as Tomahawk in mATX form factor. Even for that chip the VRM is a bit of overkill: OC'd to 4.25Gig on all cores it's cool as anything in a heavy stress test. Not trying to turn you away from the Tomahawk, but if you're not considering future options like a 12 or 16 core chip it's not nearly as big a deal as it was with 1000/2000 series 8 core CPU's.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

If you can wait then definitely wait. I think even MSI has said that so I'm pretty sure the MAX will come out as soon as they can get it into the marketplace.

BTW... I have a 3700x on a B450M Mortar, basically the same board as Tomahawk in mATX form factor. Even for that chip the VRM is a bit of overkill: OC'd to 4.25Gig on all cores it's cool as anything in a heavy stress test. Not trying to turn you away from the Tomahawk, but if you're not considering future options like a 12 or 16 core chip it's not nearly as big a deal as it was with 1000/2000 series 8 core CPU's.

I won't buy a 12/16 core chip, because all I do is heavy gaming. Btw thanks for the recommendation but I don't like small motherboards. I have read so many good things about the tomahawk that I don't want to buy anything else. However, the availability is low here in Greece and if I order a tomahawk it will take about a month to arrive so I guess the best thing to do is wait? Also, I'm reading that a lot of people experience heat issues with the 3600 using b450 boards. Is this true?

 

[drea.drechsler]

.... Btw thanks for the recommendation but I don't like small motherboards....Also, I'm reading that a lot of people experience heat issues with the 3600 using b450 boards. Is this true?

I wasn't trying to suggest a Mortar, just letting you know the Tomahawk VRM could easily be more than needed for a 3600 since my Mortar is running so cool with a 3700X with a manual overclock.

I think the heat issues arise because of some BIOS problems setting voltages and some utilities that keep the processor from idling. AMD is supposedly addressing the voltage issues with new AGESA updates in the works. But once you get your system up and running you have to watch what background utilities you're running to see if they are making the processer wake up cores that should be sleeping. I think a really bad one is a Corsair utility the monitors PSU temps and voltages and one called iCUE that runs the RGB stuff. I don't use anything like that so that may be why I'm not experiencing any such problems.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

I wasn't trying to suggest a Mortar, just letting you know the Tomahawk VRM could easily be more than needed for a 3600 since my Mortar is running so cool with a 3700X with a manual overclock.

I think the heat issues arise because of some BIOS problems setting voltages and some utilities that keep the processor from idling. AMD is supposedly addressing the voltage issues with new AGESA updates in the works. But once you get your system up and running you have to watch what background utilities you're running to see if they are making the processer wake up cores that should be sleeping. I think a really bad one is a Corsair utility the monitors PSU temps and voltages and one called iCUE that runs the RGB stuff. I don't use anything like that so that may be why I'm not experiencing any such problems.

It may be a problem with me then, because I use icue for my corsair keyboard. And because I'll buy rgb corsair ram, I'll synchronise them through iCUE. Anyway, I don't know what to do right now. I don't think the standard tomahawk is worth it where I live, because if I order one it will arrive in about 1 month and by then the b450 tomahawk max will have come out. What do you think I should do?

 

[drea.drechsler]

It may be a problem with me then, because I use icue for my corsair keyboard. And because I'll buy rgb corsair ram, I'll synchronise them through iCUE. Anyway, I don't know what to do right now. I don't think the standard tomahawk is worth it where I live, because if I order one it will arrive in about 1 month and by then the b450 tomahawk max will have come out. What do you think I should do?

Fist...does iCue have to stay running all the time in the background? if it's just used to set things up and then it can be dismissed it may not be a real issue. But since I don't use it, i can't say, but if it can't be turned off then user's should probably start pounding on Corsair to code their app correctly so it's less intrusive as a background app.

Also, I don't think the problem with background apps and voltage is by any means unique to Tomahawk and it's just one of those things that's being worked by AMD. This is one of those 'early adopter' headaches we have to live with, and while nobody has a crystal ball in a month or so there should be more BIOS updates coming out to help.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

Fist...does iCue have to stay running all the time in the background? if it's just used to set things up and then it can be dismissed it may not be a real issue. But since I don't use it, i can't say, but if it can't be turned off then user's should probably start pounding on Corsair to code their app correctly so it's less intrusive as a background app.

Also, I don't think the problem with background apps and voltage is by any means unique to Tomahawk and it's just one of those things that's being worked by AMD. This is one of those 'early adopter' headaches we have to live with, and while nobody has a crystal ball in a month or so there should be more BIOS updates coming out to help.

Yeah iCUE runs all the time in the background. I have a corsair h100i v2 though, I don't think I'll have heat issues.Thanks for the help, I'll wait a bit and then buy a board.

 

[JBHapgood]

I don't want to pay that much for a x570 board. I also don't like waiting too long. I've waited too many years to get rid of my fx 9370 and I don't want to wait a month more. I'll be returning from vacation this week, so I would like to buy the parts once I get home. I initially wanted to buy a 2600x but I watched benchmarks and the 3600 seemed so good. However I don't how much better it will be with my gtx 1070 than 2600x. I will only use my pc for gaming at 1080p 60hz but I'll upgrade my monitor in 3-4 months. Should I just go with a 2600x and avoid all the fuss?

First, the 2600X is a fine CPU. It was my initial choice, but with the new Ryzens coming out it looked like the 3600 would be a lot better. It has the same clock speed, but uses 65 watts rather than 95. And the reports about improved performance clinched the decision for me to wait for the 3600. That said, if you think you can enjoy the 2600X and not have buyer's remorse about not choosing the 3600, then by all means buy one now and put together a great computer.

Second, I don't know if it's the case in Greece, but in the US there are CPU and motherboard bundles that greatly reduce the price gap between the current price for a decent B450 motherboard and a low-end X570 motherboard like the MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus. (I'm leery of the B450 Tomahawk, as some people think the problems with it are due to more than the BIOS.)

I would really prefer a B450 motherboard, as the X570 uses more power and offers me no useful advantage. But if the BIOS problems drag on too long, or if I have no simple, inexpensive way of flashing the BIOS on a board that doesn't support the 3600 out of the box, an X570 board becomes a viable option.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

First, the 2600X is a fine CPU. It was my initial choice, but with the new Ryzens coming out it looked like the 3600 would be a lot better. It has the same clock speed, but uses 65 watts rather than 95. And the reports about improved performance clinched the decision for me to wait for the 3600. That said, if you think you can enjoy the 2600X and not have buyer's remorse about not choosing the 3600, then by all means buy one now and put together a great computer.

Second, I don't know if it's the case in Greece, but in the US there are CPU and motherboard bundles that greatly reduce the price gap between the current price for a decent B450 motherboard and a low-end X570 motherboard like the MSI MPG X570 Gaming Plus. (I'm leery of the B450 Tomahawk, as some people think the problems with it are due to more than the BIOS.)

I would really prefer a B450 motherboard, as the X570 uses more power and offers me no useful advantage. But if the BIOS problems drag on too long, or if I have no simple, inexpensive way of flashing the BIOS on a board that doesn't support the 3600 out of the box, an X570 board becomes a viable option.

Thanks for answering, I don't quite understand what you mean by bundles(you mean buying the 3600 and b450 mobo together from the same retailer?). If you mean that then no there is no such thing here if I understood correctly. Anyway, I'll wait a week or two but if the problems with the bios persist I'll buy a 2600x. Also, do you think I really need the 3600? All I do is play games and yes in summer I play a lot. But the rest of the year I'm occupied with school stuff and on a daily basis I don't have that much time to play. Furthermore, not this year the next year, I'll be studying heavily because it'll be my last year at school and from that year my life will be determined (I mean my job). So yeah I don't see myself playing that much next year. I will take my pc with me though, once I go to a university. I don't think I'll be playing that much there either, because I'll have my friends and go out on my free time and maybe I'll play 1 or 2 hours a day. What do you think? Do I really need to invest more on a 3600 and go through a lot of fuss or should I go with a 2600x and avoid all the fuss, but still have a badass pc? Thanks in advance

 

[JBHapgood]

Thanks for answering, I don't quite understand what you mean by bundles(you mean buying the 3600 and b450 mobo together from the same retailer?). If you mean that then no there is no such thing here if I understood correctly. Anyway, I'll wait a week or two but if the problems with the bios persist I'll buy a 2600x. Also, do you think I really need the 3600? All I do is play games and yes in summer I play a lot. But the rest of the year I'm occupied with school stuff and on a daily basis I don't have that much time to play. Furthermore, not this year the next year, I'll be studying heavily because it'll be my last year at school and from that year my life will be determined (I mean my job). So yeah I don't see myself playing that much next year. I will take my pc with me though, once I go to a university. I don't think I'll be playing that much there either, because I'll have my friends and go out on my free time and maybe I'll play 1 or 2 hours a day. What do you think? Do I really need to invest more on a 3600 and go through a lot of fuss or should I go with a 2600x and avoid all the fuss, but still have a badass pc? Thanks in advance

A bundle is indeed a combination deal (mobo+CPU) offered by a retailer. It can sometimes save money.

For me, the 3600 is a no-brainer. It's the same clock speed and (former) price as the 2600X, but uses 30 watts less power. (Less expense, less heat, less environmental damage.) It also turns out to have improved performance. I don't game at all, but I suspect that improved performance would be significant for gaming, especially if you get 3200MHz DRAM. But the 2600X isn't bad at all, and it might save you a lot of money.

You might also consider the longer term. I have neither the money nor the interest in frequently updating my computer, so I'm looking for something that will last for years. My current computer is 9 years old. I think I did a pretty good job of future-proofing when I built it in 2010. The latest version of Tom's HW article about CPU tiers shows its Intel i7-860 as "still viable." I need to replace it because Microsoft will pull the plug on Windows 7 in January, and my mobo is not compatible with Windows 10. (It's also 9 years old. I just replaced the video card-- I'll use it in the new build-- and other components may be at the end or their lives.) Future-proofing is another argument for going with the X570. Maybe the price of M.2 SSD will decline enough make replacing the hard drive for secondary storage practical, and the X570 can accommodate a second M.2 drive without mucking up SATA or PCIe bandwidth.

That said, only you can make the right decision. The 3600 is clearly better, though I'm increasingly convinced the X570 is the way to go for it. That will cost more, though it may be worth the extra money in the long term. But I don't think you could go too far wrong with a 2600X and a B450 motherboard, especially if you get a good price on the "legacy" CPU.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

A bundle is indeed a combination deal (mobo+CPU) offered by a retailer. It can sometimes save money.

For me, the 3600 is a no-brainer. It's the same clock speed and (former) price as the 2600X, but uses 30 watts less power. (Less expense, less heat, less environmental damage.) It also turns out to have improved performance. I don't game at all, but I suspect that improved performance would be significant for gaming, especially if you get 3200MHz DRAM. But the 2600X isn't bad at all, and it might save you a lot of money.

You might also consider the longer term. I have neither the money nor the interest in frequently updating my computer, so I'm looking for something that will last for years. My current computer is 9 years old. I think I did a pretty good job of future-proofing when I built it in 2010. The latest version of Tom's HW article about CPU tiers shows its Intel i7-860 as "still viable." I need to replace it because Microsoft will pull the plug on Windows 7 in January, and my mobo is not compatible with Windows 10. (It's also 9 years old. I just replaced the video card-- I'll use it in the new build-- and other components may be at the end or their lives.) Future-proofing is another argument for going with the X570. Maybe the price of M.2 SSD will decline enough make replacing the hard drive for secondary storage practical, and the X570 can accommodate a second M.2 drive without mucking up SATA or PCIe bandwidth.

That said, only you can make the right decision. The 3600 is clearly better, though I'm increasingly convinced the X570 is the way to go for it. That will cost more, though it may be worth the extra money in the long term. But I don't think you could go too far wrong with a 2600X and a B450 motherboard, especially if you get a good price on the "legacy" CPU.

Can you recommend a good b450 board(don't mention tomahawk I know it's good). I need it to be atx though. Thanks.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Can you recommend a good b450 board(don't mention tomahawk I know it's good). I need it to be atx though. Thanks.

I think you mentioned you want this for a 3600. All Ryzen 3000's are extremely power efficient and 3600 in particular because it's 6 core and overclocking really isn't a consideration at 7nm anyway. You could easily get by with any of the B450 boards out there...even A320 boards...since the VRM's will handle it quite easily. So I'd suggest to focus on features you're interested in and/or budget considerations.

So what budget have you in mind? and what features are important? For instance: is a USB-ty C port important? a second M.2 socket for second M.2 NVME? On B450 it would be PCIe gen2 of course, but that's still way faster than SATA for a data drive. Higher-end audio? I don't think there are any B450's with premium audio but you can avoid the low-end stuff if you want. Do you have any add-in cards that might need a home...if so what size PCIe slot do they need?

If none of those features are important then focus on budget and aesthetics: how it looks in your build.

 

[ProPlayerGR]

I think you mentioned you want this for a 3600. All Ryzen 3000's are extremely power efficient and 3600 in particular because it's 6 core and overclocking really isn't a consideration at 7nm anyway. You could easily get by with any of the B450 boards out there...even A320 boards...since the VRM's will handle it quite easily. So I'd suggest to focus on features you're interested in and/or budget considerations.

So what budget have you in mind? and what features are important? For instance: is a USB-ty C port important? a second M.2 socket for second M.2 NVME? On B450 it would be PCIe gen2 of course, but that's still way faster than SATA for a data drive. Higher-end audio? I don't think there are any B450's with premium audio but you can avoid the low-end stuff if you want. Do you have any add-in cards that might need a home...if so what size PCIe slot do they need?

If none of those features are important then focus on budget and aesthetics: how it looks in your build.

I don't know if I'll go with a 3600 because my brother doesn't want us to spend more than 400€. Maybe I'll convince him, but if not we'll go with either a 2600 or 2600x with a b450 board. Because the tomahawk is not available here(ot will take a month for it to arrive. As I said I want an atx board. Recommendations?

 

[JBHapgood]

Can you recommend a good b450 board(don't mention tomahawk I know it's good). I need it to be atx though. Thanks.

One of the moderators here recommended the Asus ROG Strix B450-F to me as a better alternative to the Tomahawk. I checked it out, and it seems a good solid choice-- but only if you're going the 2600X route. I contacted Asus, and was told they aren't currently shipping the board with a 3000-compatible BIOS.

I have also found out that ASRock are now shipping most of their B450 boards with a 3000-compatible BIOS and a "Ryzen 3000 ready" sticker on the box. And the pages on the ASRock Web site for B450 boards now mention the Ryzen 3000. The problem is that the only way to be sure of getting a compatible board is to visit a brick-and-mortar shop and inspect the box before buying it. I don't know whether you can find such a shop where you are, but for me (I'm in Los Angeles) the nearest retail shop that carries any ASRock motherboards is 60km away.

If I decide to make that drive, my choice would be the ASRock B450 Pro4. It's an inexpensive board without LED lighting or other gaming-oriented features, which is just what I'm looking for. The micro ATX version (B450M Pro4) has gotten good reviews; it differs from the full ATX version in having fewer PCIe and SATA ports and a smaller chipset heat sink, but it's otherwise identical. There is also a gaming version of the B450 Pro4 called the Fatal1ty B450 Gaming K4. It's pretty much the same as the Pro4, but it has LEDs and larger VRM and chipset heat sinks and seems to be more widely available than the Pro4.

The ASRock B450 boards have an interesting design choice: The using the primary M.2 SSD slot disables the second PCIe video card slot. On other B450 boards I've seen, the M.2 SSD disables two SATA ports. As multiple video cards are no longer as popular as they were 10 years ago, it makes much more sense to disable the second video slot and leave the SATA ports available. On the other hand, the RAM and SSD QVL for ASRock boards is much less extensive than MSI or Asus.

I hope this helps you make a choice.