clue69less
Splendid
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Here's what I know from the air cooling literature: 1) Hot spots need a highly conductive heat sink that has adequate surface area and adequate local airflow. 2) The air volume of the case must be exchanged quickly. 3) Given good hot spot and case heat exchange, the ambient temperature is a major factor in determining how well the hot spots are cooled.
So, in looking at your case with and without the 25cm fan, I'm assuming that your CPU, GPU and chipset coolers were unchanged. If that's correct, then adding the 25cm fan must have interfered with exchanging the case air. As I mentioned earlier, the only way I can see that happening is if the air from the 25cm fan is more or less going directly to the output fans. If it was mixing well with the bulk case air and then exhausted quickly, it would have lowered temps. But from your comments, that's not what you've seen and is why I recommended turning the 25cm fan around and trying it as an exhaust.
Sorry, but I find this discussion overly simplistic. If any part of the system is weak, from bringing in cool air to exhausting the hot air and anything inbetween, the system will run hotter than optimal. So you really need all parts doing ther job. Neglecting any part of the chain will cause the whole cooling system to suffer.
RyanMicah
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It didn't lower temps any because there's already fresh air in the case. All it did was disrupt a good thing.
As far as my other comment is concerned, ambient air at 80 degrees with a good heatsink/fan on the CPU is better than a crappy heatsink and slow RPM fan @ 70 degrees. Direct air to the CPU (even if it's warm) is more effective for cooling than case fan air. Air movement on a very hot part > air movement around the hot part. Get it now?
As far as my other comment is concerned, ambient air at 80 degrees with a good heatsink/fan on the CPU is better than a crappy heatsink and slow RPM fan @ 70 degrees. Direct air to the CPU (even if it's warm) is more effective for cooling than case fan air. Air movement on a very hot part > air movement around the hot part. Get it now?
clue69less
Splendid
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"Disrupt" is not very descriptive. If the inlet air from the 25cm is competing with the hot air coming off of the HSF for outlet vent space, then it makes sense. But if by "disrupt" you mean that more in-case mixing happened, then you're off-track.
You're not teaching me anything I don't already know. I've worked with systems from liquid Helium up to over 1000C reaction chambers. I have made air cooling work in very difficult circumstances, like instrumet controllers in confined spaces with 45C inlet air. It's not mystical stuff and in fact the solutions are reasonably simple. Too bad you haven't tried flipping the 25cm fan - you might be surprised.
clue69less
Splendid
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RyanMicah
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Yeah...you get stupid and now I'm uncool. Where do you get off guy? I think you need to work on reading and comprehension. Don't sit there and correct me about a term I used which I think everyone here pretty much understood but you. I have no patience for nitpicking idiocy. I meant that the air got recirculated and reheated you moron, just like I SAID. Maybe you're tired. You think it's somehow relevant to pick apart a word I chose to use that described what I was saying just fine...if you're going to pick fights then expect a little "uncoolness" to come your way. ANYONE will get hot tempered when you go around insulting them without grounds. We're fine, but next time...think. EXOTIC cooling system, now we're also adding words? I don't even know what you're talking about. Go to bed.
clue69less
Splendid
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You've sprayed a ton of bull, but it doesn't add up.
Admission of ignorance is the key to learning. There is hope for you yet.
Listen up: I'm not picking fights - I'm just correcting you because you don't understand simple airflow. You think you do and your bruised pride is blocking your capacity to listen and learn. You try to come off as some kind of cooling expert but all you do is spray a bunch of drivel. This round got started when you posted the following:
This, combined with everything you've said today just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. You're inventing flow scenarios that don't add up. I'll help you get back on track with a simple fact:
Air in = air out
This comes into play when you say the 25cm fan is bringing in more fresh air. Fresh air is cooler than the hot air inside the case, right? So the only way that you can hurt your heat flow when you add fresh air in is if that fresh air hogs the outflow. It's like I've said repeatedly, a large fraction of the 25cm fan air would have to be going right out the exhaust. If not, it would have to be displacing more hot air than when not using the 25. You're not blowing up a fricken balloon so you can crawl down off of your "circulating warm air inside of my case" soap box. Adding cool air in increases the potential cooling capacity EXCEPT when it goes right to exhaust WITHOUT circulating inside the case.
Fact #2: Typical ATX case air flow does not imitate laminar flow.
There are many angles, corners and obstructions. So, along with adequate front to back and/or bottom to top flow, some degree of circulation is a good thing. This has been demonstrated with IR photos and videos, smoke video, etc.
If you're an expert on anything, it's blowing hot air. You get challenged about your ability to observe and reason and since you can't handle that, you decide to take cheap shots and call names. That's a sure sign of a dude that's lost an argument.
RyanMicah
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I'm glad you think I sound like an expert. It took you far too long to type all that up. I sat here waiting for it for a good half hour. There was and is no argument. You're just looking for a fight and I'm done. If I spew drivel than that's fine. But you're the one dignifying it and repeating it for everyone to read again. I appreciate it, really I do. I don't understand airflow? Wow. What's there to understand? It's simple science. I sometimes rant for my own humor, and we were all just having a conversation. Then you had to show up and act like you were superior in knowledge and terminology. Nobody asked you. Get over yourself. Go ahead and water cool too. Become an expert and tell us all about it. We don't care.
clue69less
Splendid
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You have massive comprehension problems.
I had to go take a crap. It was almost half as big as your ego. A triple flusher RyanMicah Memorial Turd.
Well, it would be simpler for you if you understood some fundamentals, like air in = air out, but you've proven that such concepts are out of reach.
That was no act. And I was involved in this conversation well before you were. Perhaps you should study up on free speech and forum rules too just so you can see how this all works. Here's the quick summary: If you post BS, I can reply and show you the error of your ways.
It's a FORUM dude! Did you think you were emailing your buds?
I've done plenty of water cooling, TEC cooling, phase cooling, LN2 cooling and even swamp cooling. And again you're wrong because some people here DO care. Maybe not you but you're just jealous.
clue69less
Splendid
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Maybe you should learn to keep your word, like when you said:
"You're just looking for a fight and I'm done. "
You were done but now you're back spraying again? Who is looking for a fight? Who is calling names rather than talking real science. You lost so now you revert to childish tactics. sad.
clue69less
Splendid
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You're welcome. I just wish he had something constructive to say.
You wouldn't know constructive if it was pasted to a 2x4 and rammed upside your forehead. Was that how you got so... damaged?
clue69less
Splendid
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Yep. You win. So anyway...I think I'm done with this post.
OK, good. So lemmie know when you get ready to sell that fan.
LoL.
I still haven't done anything yet, but I have found some places in the yellow pages, that I'll hopefully get a minute tomorrow afternoon to call up and ask if they could cut a hole in my side panel and how much it would cost.
I'm also gonna probably start investing in tools, so I can do this myself eventually.
Once I find out more information and start getting somewhere I'll get back to you all.
Appreciate everyone's help. Thanks Storm
I still haven't done anything yet, but I have found some places in the yellow pages, that I'll hopefully get a minute tomorrow afternoon to call up and ask if they could cut a hole in my side panel and how much it would cost.
I'm also gonna probably start investing in tools, so I can do this myself eventually.
Once I find out more information and start getting somewhere I'll get back to you all.
Appreciate everyone's help. Thanks Storm
When investing in tools, remember a Bi-Metal Hole-Saw is required for case modification.
Morse AV72, 4-1/2" Bi-Metal Hole Saw, $23.29
http://www.amazon.com/MK-Morse-AV72.../ref=sr_1_18/002-0674833-2820003?ie=UTF8&s=hi
For a 120mm fan you need a 114.3mm (4.500") hole-saw, even though 120.7mm = 4.750". The easiest way to determine the size hole-saw needed for a particular fan, is to purchase the mating fan-grill first and measure it's diameter.
The diameter of the fan-grill = the diameter of the hole-saw. For example:
a 120mm fan-grill is: 114.3mm (4.500")
a 92mm fan-grill is: 89mm (3.500")
a 80mm fan-grill is: 76mm (3.000")
Morse AV72, 4-1/2" Bi-Metal Hole Saw, $23.29
http://www.amazon.com/MK-Morse-AV72.../ref=sr_1_18/002-0674833-2820003?ie=UTF8&s=hi
For a 120mm fan you need a 114.3mm (4.500") hole-saw, even though 120.7mm = 4.750". The easiest way to determine the size hole-saw needed for a particular fan, is to purchase the mating fan-grill first and measure it's diameter.
The diameter of the fan-grill = the diameter of the hole-saw. For example:
a 120mm fan-grill is: 114.3mm (4.500")
a 92mm fan-grill is: 89mm (3.500")
a 80mm fan-grill is: 76mm (3.000")
Another great tool to invest in for case modification is a Nibbler.
Case Cutting Tool Nibbler, $7.65
http://www.pctoys.com/840556056751.html
The advertisement claims: "Cuts perfect shapes into the side of your computer case." It will cut any shape desired in your computer case, not perfect ones though. I used the nibbler to cut a rectangular shape into my case, where I placed my floppy-drive, the bezel covering up the non-perfect shape. I used a hole-saw to cut a perfect hole for my 120mm fan.
FYI
I purchased a Sioux 4-1/2" Bi-Metal Hole Saw on eBay for $11.50, a separate arbor is required.
Case Cutting Tool Nibbler, $7.65
http://www.pctoys.com/840556056751.html
The advertisement claims: "Cuts perfect shapes into the side of your computer case." It will cut any shape desired in your computer case, not perfect ones though. I used the nibbler to cut a rectangular shape into my case, where I placed my floppy-drive, the bezel covering up the non-perfect shape. I used a hole-saw to cut a perfect hole for my 120mm fan.
FYI
I purchased a Sioux 4-1/2" Bi-Metal Hole Saw on eBay for $11.50, a separate arbor is required.
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