Silent and Cold: Weird Demands on a Gaming/Media Hybrid

[GreatWiseBob]

It's been 15 years since I last built a PC, and now after the distractions of college and kids, I'm totally out of touch. I've got a tricky project on my hands, and I'm throwing myself on the kindness and expertise of the Internet to get me out of this one alive.

My PC just died, and I'm tasked with putting together a hybrid media/gaming rig that will be the beating heart of our nerdy little family.

THE CHALLENGE: Create a hybrid media/high-ish-end gaming PC that is ice cold and bone silent for under $2000 CAD. Bonus points for USB3 in the front, wireless/Bluetooth, and HD cable-in recording capacity.

Performance Demands:
- Must run top or very high-quality graphics for the next generation of games (> 5 years)
- Must run and record seamless HD video, streaming and from memory
- Display is a 42' flatscreen Samsung UN46D6000
- Must accommodate USB3 in front
- Photoshop (up to 1GB files) and HD video editing (non-professional)
- Because this is the media centre of the house, and in a small space, it must be whisper-quiet AND well cooled despite being in cramped quarters. (Current PC fans are louder than the video, and if we turn it up the baby wakes. It is pretty much misery incarnate.) We WILL sacrifice performance for lower dB if necessary. Not sure if liquid cooling is the way to go.

Soft Spots:
- Because of the small space and young kids, we can sacrifice sound quality.
- We can do without optical drive, wireless, Bluetooth and aux cable-in.

Budget goals:
- Value my man-parts, do not want wife to see a sticker over $2,000 after tax ($1,750CAD or $1,550USD)
- Save cash where possible but performance is primary

Didn't want to be a slacker making you do all the work, so I took my best shot at it. You'll see right away that I have no idea what I'm doing, but hey, I tried my sad best. Hope it's good for a laugh!

Thanks so much for your help everyone. Looking forward to seeing where I've gone wrong. (What do you think? D+? F-?)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($247.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z87 Killer ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($171.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($169.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.98 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($108.95 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290X 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($399.99 @ NCIX)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 290X 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card (2-Way CrossFire) ($399.99 @ NCIX)
Case: Corsair Air 540 ATX Mid Tower Case ($126.83 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 850W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($179.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.95 @ Vuugo)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($36.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $2014.39
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 00:21 EDT-0400

 

[DarkSable]

Hey there man! I'm more than happy to help you out - let me just get this posted, and I'll go back in to edit in the details. Tom's has been having some issues lately, so instead of trying two dozen times to get my 2 pages of advice posted, this way is far simpler.

EDITS below this line.

Alright, so here we go. First of all, like I said, I'm more than happy to help you out - I'm an absolute nutter for silence myself, and I specialize in tiny, watercooled, customized rigs.

Few broad thoughts before we get started:

1) Running top or very high graphics for five years isn't going to happen. Stop chasing it. What happens if you do is that you spend a fortune now on your graphics card setup and wind up with an incredibly expensive, incredibly obsolete setup down the road. Buy what you need to get the performance you want now, using a smaller budget... then you'll have the money set aside to upgrade later down the road.

2) What are the size constraints? You mentioned cramped quarters - what, exactly, does that mean? I ask because, well... if you take a well ventilated, perfectly cooled computer and stick it in a box, all you're doing is screwing yourself out of all that airflow you just worked so hard to make. Having the computer in an enclosed space will also increase noise quite a bit unless it's specifically designed for sound-absorption rather than reverberation.

3) $1.5K is plenty to build a computer where you're looking for, but the biggest question that's going to change what I recommend is where it's going, how it's going to be cooled, and all that. Is it possible to make it be a small form factor box that isn't sitting somewhere cramped? Watercooling at this budget unfortunately isn't very practical, but we'll see what we can do.

Now, on to your parts list. It's... not horrible? But it could use some work. Here are my recommendations:

a) Great pick on the CPU, but it's older. The 4690k is the Devil's Canyon i5 and overclocks much better. One thing to consider to cut costs would definitely be to buy a non-K cpu and a non-overclocking motherboard, which would save you quite a bit of money. If you do think you're going to be overclocking, go for it... if not, don't bother. Also, depending on what form factor this ends up being, we might find that an all in one watercooler is worth it just for silence and size considerations. Nowhere near the performance of custom watercooling, but with Noctua's on it, it'll be fine for silence.

b) Great pick on the cooler, as well - it's the best option on a budget, and with aftermarket fans on it is great for silence. (Though considering Noctuas are $20 each, that kinda kills the whole budget thing.)

c) Overkill on the motherboard, seriously. The z97 Extreme 4 is a good pick, but I'm guessing we'll probably end up going mATX for size.

d) You don't need 16GB of ram. 8GB is enough to simultaneously run battlefield 3, photoshop, and 30 tabs in chrome... or to open over 100 bookmarked tabs in chrome all at once, without chugging. You will never make use of 16GB.

e) Poor pick on the SSD, unfortunately. A 120GB drive is going to be more than enough, because data and 99% of games gain absolutely nothing from being on an SSD... and you can get a 120GB Samsung 840 EVO for dirt cheap. (Might be worth waiting, though - the 850 EVO is supposed to be coming out soon.)

f) If you really think you need 3TB of storage, I'm not going to argue; I'm currently using over 4.5TB. However, I dislike Barracudas - recent models of these drives tend to run a little hot and noisy. Toshibas and Hitachis are both quite good, as of course are the Western Digital Blacks for more money.

g) You say you want to not worry about heat and noise... and then you get TWO graphics cards... and not just two graphics cards, but two high-end AMD graphics cards, for which the stock cooler wasn't powerful enough and would cause throttling because of heat. Bad, BAD pick. Get an Nvidia card, which provides way, way better performance per watt. Each of those 290x's has a 300w TDP, which means the two of them are pumping out at least 600W of heat, and with the aftermarket cooler, all that is getting recirculated back into your case.

A brand new Nvidia cards means either an Asus 970 Strix, which is enough to game at 1080p on max right now and has fans that turn off when the card is on idle, meaning no noise when watching videos... or you could get a GTX 980, which has a ridiculous amount of power and has a blower-style stock cooler that will take what hot air it does produce and vent it out the back. The stock cooler on the 980 was designed for a 250w card, so is incredibly quiet.

So with the pair of 290x's, you're spending $800 to run games on max and produce 600w of heat that all goes back into the case.

With a single 970, you're spending $330 to... still run games on max, and only produces... 145w of heat. That's a HUGE difference.

The 980 will be about $550 to run games on max for slightly longer (Or to still be able to run games on ultra if you upgraded to a 1440p monitor instead of a tv), and produces all of 170w of heat that all gets blown out the back of the computer.

(Above prices all in USD.)


h) That's a pretty stinking big case for something you say is going to be in cramped quarters. I still strongly suggest a smaller rig, even if it's still the size of a bitfenix Prodigy. However, having a tiny rig means it can be up high, out of reach of inquisitive (sticky!) little fingers, where it will get better airflow and stay cleaner. You could build a ridiculously powerful gaming computer in just about 2.5, 3 liters without even having to try hard.

i) That power supply, well... you need it if you're spending that much on those graphics cards. With a 970 or 980, even a 550w power supply would be overkill for the computer, and there are a lot of very good, very cheap 550w PSUs. (Look at the SeaSonic G 550 or M12II / S12II 520.)

j) Why not just get a motherboard that has a mini-PCIe slot and wifi built in?

 

[TomThePotato]

Go with the more updated version, 4690k which runs cooler and is a bit cheaper. Z97 mobo for easy upgrades later. Went with 970s because I think (have no experience) cross fired 290Xs would be loud. If you're looking for quietness, I'd look into fractal's cases. For even more quietness, get a noctua fan cooler, which are good, only if you don't mind the brown color.. Finally, went with a cheaper psu that's still quite good.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($246.97 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-Gaming 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($169.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.98 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($108.95 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card (2-Way SLI) ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($88.98 @ Amazon Canada)
Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($146.99 @ NCIX)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.95 @ Vuugo)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($36.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $1929.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 01:20 EDT-0400

 

[TomThePotato]

Posted that too late, lol.

 

[Outlander_04]

Change the crossfire video cards . They are quiet but two of them is not silent

Replace then with a single GTX 980 .
If you need another one later you can add it , biut for now and for some years its going to be more than you need for a single 1080p screen , and it will be much quieter

Spend some of the money that saves you on a huge Noctua cpu cooler with 140 mm fans spinning slow

and then 7 volt mod all the case fans

PCPartPicker part list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/KzgdMp
Price breakdown by merchant: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/KzgdMp/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($247.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($84.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Motherboard: ASRock Fatal1ty Z87 Killer ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($171.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($163.98 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Crucial M500 240GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($124.98 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($108.95 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 980 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($724.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Corsair Air 540 ATX Mid Tower Case ($126.83 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 850W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($179.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.95 @ Vuugo)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 802.11a/b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter ($36.99 @ NCIX)
Total: $1991.58
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 01:35 EDT-0400

 

[GreatWiseBob]

Thanks so much for the replies, everyone. It's good to see I'm only mostly totally wrong about stuff. The fact that I managed to get a couple of things sorta right is basically the triumph of my summer.

DarkSable: Seriously, what a fantastic post. This is exactly what I needed --- thanks! (And it sounds like you're just the guy I'm looking for: tiny and silent is the name of the game!) Here comes the follow-up:

1) Makes sense. I've actually made that mistake in the past, and here I was taking another go at it.

2 and 3) We've got a couple of spacing options. Ideally the PC is housed in a cabinet beneath the flatscreen in order to keep sticky fingers out of it, and to keep the unit and peripherals out of sight. The back has been removed, so it's enclosed on three sides, roughly 16"w x 24"h x 20"d. The fact that it's probably an oven in there (though I don't have the background to know for certain) is what leads me to be seeking a super-cool unit.

Failing that, I can put it out under the TV in the open air and just keep this kid tied to a post on the rear wall with some baler twine.

That is to say, if there's no way to safely house the PC in an enclosed space that size, then it can be put in the open air. Obviously that's better for the PC, but it does cause aesthetic and safety issues (since it will only be a few inches off the ground; I don't have the option of putting it up high). For what it's worth, the room looks like a library so a glowing green-and-black case out in the open is really going to stand out and be distracting as a media center. And there's no such thing as a brown case, apparently. (Case recommendations for a "library rig" would be welcome!)

a-f, i) Very helpful, thanks! I'll work these recommendations into the next draft. In terms of the cooling system, I was looking at Noctuas and actually loved the cream-and-tan colour scheme everyone hates --- but I wasn't able to find any case that even remotely matched it. I'm going with the BitFenix Phenom M for now, and I've gone with (what I expect is) total overkill with the 140mm and 2x120mm in the top slots. The case does have room for an all-in-one liquid cooling unit, and I have saved a bunch of money cutting down on those monster video cards... what do you think?

g) You might have just saved the day with this one. I was really hoping someone would recommend a good single card --- every time I did any kind of research into what people were using for high-end gaming these days the answer seemed to be a unanimous vote in favour of a two-card system.

I take it from your description that the fans on the 980 will not turn off when idle? Seems like I'm going with the 970 for the dB bonus and the $200 discount. (Is the performance that much lower? Should I consider the 980 for longevity's sake?)

j) I wasn't able to find an mATX mobo with wifi on PcPartPicker. Am I missing something?

TomThePotato: Many thanks! It does seem like dual cards will be too hot and loud, so I'll probably go with the single-card system. I'm looking at the Fractal cases and they're a little less aesthetically appealing than the BitFenix I'm looking at, which has been reviewed as being well-cooled --- are the Fractal cases that much quieter?

Outlander_04: Perfect --- I'll make those changes.

UPDATE:
Okay, here's my next attempt.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($224.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Asus Maximus VI Gene Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($164.99 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($89.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($169.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Case: BitFenix Phenom M Arctic White MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($99.99 @ Memory Express)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12G 550W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($121.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Fan ($22.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1441.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 12:33 EDT-0400

ETA: Before I forget, any advice about a cable-in media card? It's just a fancy extra, but if I could use the PC as a DVR I'd basically have the whole package wrapped up in a neat little bow.

 

[angaddev]

I'd recommend investing in an i7 rather than 16GB of RAM. Also, this Mini-ITX board has built-in wifi, and the Prodigy is a great case.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($317.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Asus Z97I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($168.34 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($89.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($169.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12G 550W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($121.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Fan ($22.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1497.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-03 12:54 EDT-0400

 

[DarkSable]

Blech. This is what I was trying to avoid with my first post...

Sorry for the double post, folks. And pooh-pooh to Tom's for having all these issues, much as I love them.

 

[DarkSable]

Alright, here goes.

First of all, glad that I could be helpful - that's what I'm here for. I'm a full time student working two jobs, so I haven't been around today, but I'll be able to help you more over the weekend.

1) It's an easy mistake to make, and unfortunately it's a kind of painful one. Linus over at Linus Tech Tips / NCIX has a very good youtube video on why future proofing isn't a good idea, if you want more information about the way it works out.

2) I can certainly understand wanting to keep the computer hidden, but the trouble is that you then have two scenarios that are at odds with each other. You have a computer in a cabinet that needs to be silent and produce very little heat, and you have a gaming computer that's going to produce heat no matter what you do. If you just keep it in the cabinet, I'm worried that it would get kind of stifled.

The trouble is that even with a computer that doesn't put out a whole bunch of heat, the space its enclosed in has no ventilation, so it's like building a computer in a case that has no fans and no holes... and is made of wood so that it can't conduct heat passively.

You have a few options that are standing out to me. The first one is a custom case. It's really not that scary, and even just getting a wood veneer and covering the case is a surprisingly easy task. That being said, it's a dangerous rabbit hole to fall down, I can tell you... especially when you start looking at the nerd porn of gorgeous computers that's out there.

Anyways, as for options, it's quite easy to find something that's not incredibly flashy. There are cases that are designed to fit in with a (usually more modern, aluminum) media center that look like a DVR, and there are also small cases that could easily be mounted to the back of your TV. I'm thinking the Silverstone RAVEN rvz01 might be the perfect case to build in for you; it's just large enough to accommodate high-end gaming parts like a GTX 980, but is easily small enough to be mounted to the back of a TV or hooked to the wall behind it. (Seriously though. It's tiny. There would be no problem putting it up higher.)

We're long past the days when gaming computers have to be huge heavy things filled with gaudy neon LEDs; small and subtle has been in fashion long enough that case manufacturers are starting to take note and give us options.


[The beginning of the alphabet]: Glad that I could help you out there. I personally don't mind the way noctuas look at all, but you are correct that there is absolutely nothing else out there that looks like them, so they do tend to stand out like a sore thumb.

I personally don't like any of bitfenix's mATX cases. They completely changed the layout of the internals of the case, and it kind of buggered up the airflow and build options. I would go either with the mini-ITX prodigy (which I used to have and love; it's a great looking case, and insanely easy to mod if you ever get into that kind of thing), or with the Aerocool Dead Silence case, which is very understated, silence-oriented, and fairly good looking in any surroundings, in my opinion.

The only trouble is that it's slightly larger, so we might want to go back and look at really small cases. I still think that something like the Raven, where the graphics card is on a PCI riser and the whole case is only about four inches thick, might be a really good option. It gives you a lot more flexibility with where you put it.

g) Very glad that I could help you out! Some people are idiots, to be quite frank - even a single one of those 290x's would probably have been more than enough for a single 1080p monitor. Mostly what you were reading was probably by people with more money than brains, who went out and bought three monitors, or a 4k monitor, and wondered why their old 5870 wouldn't run games on it smoothly.

Having the fan turn off at idle is a very new technology for graphics cards (even though power supplies have been doing it for two decades now), and really only the Strix does it. It's useful if you have to have an absolutely silent pc for listening to music or something, but here's the deal...

The 970 Strix will be inaudible when it's at idle, but noisier under load, and takes all the heat it produces and dumps it back into the case, meaning you need more airflow > more fans > more noise.

The stock gtx 980 is still going to be whisper quiet at idle (Even I couldn't complain about how quiet it is), takes all the heat the card produces and dumps it out the back, meaning less fans needed, and will likely be quieter under load than the 970. (Usually stock coolers are far noisier, but this one was designed for a 250w card, meaning that it's got a ridiculous amount of cooling potential for the 165w 980. The reason you can't get a stock 970, even though that's how nvidia sold them, is because the stock cooler is expensive because it's made of metal, so manufacturers are making their own coolers for cheaper, but they're only designed for the 145w card, so the fans are working harder.) If you get a case like the Raven, a blower-style cooler like on the 980 will be a must.

I would say that it might be worth it to take the 980 for performance's sake, too - it's going to be a fairly significant jump over the 970, even though the 970 represents great value, the 980 will be playing games flat out maxxed for quite a while.

j) Ahh, there might not be any with it built in for mATX systems. I typically try to get my rigs as small as possible, which means paying a slight premium for mini-ITX motherboards... which have slews of offerings with built in wifi. I'm not as familiar with all the offerings that mATX has; just the main players.

 

[DarkSable]

Now then, just a couple more notes.

As for your current build:

1) That processor cannot overclock. I don't know if you want to be able to overclock, just keep it in mind.

2) That motherboard is, well, pricy. The advantage to mATX is that you can get decent non-overclocking motherboards for $80, and overclocking boards for $115 or so.

3) Don't bother with 1866MHz ram, you won't notice the difference over 1600MHz, Cas 9. Not worth the $10.

4) Check the dimensions on that case. I think it might surprise you with how large it is. It's a 28 liter case... the raven that I was suggesting is 14 liters.

5) As for fans, remember that the more fans you have, the more noise you're going to hear. I would use a single 120mm noctua on the 212 EVO, and then use the largest fans your case supports, one for intake, one for exhaust.





Now then, @ angaddev:

No. Just no. I think you were responding to the original post there, but there are a few things to point out:

1) There is absolutely no reason to get an i7 over an i5 if you're gaming. You won't be able to notice a hair's worth of difference... and for home video editing, a minute 30 seconds quicker render time is not worth $100.

2) I actually can't really argue with anything else, other than to say to see the comments above because the rest of the build is basically GreatWiseBob's updated list.


Oh, and as for a DVR card, I don't have any experience with them, sorry to tell you. I've looked at them a lot, and told myself I was going to buy one and get rid of freaking AT&T, but... it hasn't happened yet. From what I can tell, Ceton's InfiniTV pretty much outstrips any other option out there. It still means you have to pay a cable provider, though. There's no convenient, DVR-like method to watch content for free, either legally or... in the gray zone. (Aside from a Roku, which I love to death, but it doesn't provide everything.)

 

[angaddev]

Now then, just a couple more notes.

Now then, @ angaddev:

No. Just no. I think you were responding to the original post there, but there are a few things to point out:

1) There is absolutely no reason to get an i7 over an i5 if you're gaming. You won't be able to notice a hair's worth of difference... and for home video editing, a minute 30 seconds quicker render time is not worth $100.

2) I actually can't really argue with anything else, other than to say to see the comments above because the rest of the build is basically GreatWiseBob's updated list.

Is it worth $11?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790 3.6GHz Quad-Core Processor ($317.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($119.99 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($83.87 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($169.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Fan ($22.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1411.40
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-04 03:01 EDT-0400

 

[DarkSable]

Where are you getting $11 from? I see $225 for the i5 and $318 for the (locked; non-overclockable) i7.

I grant that for certain circumstances that's a great option, but for gaming I'd rather save the money and the heat, gain the ability to overclock, and get equal performance at stock and way better performance otherwise, since it can overclock.

 

[angaddev]

Disregard the $11. The point is I can get an i7 in the build for the same price as an i5. His updated build is $1450, here is mine with an overclockable i7 for the same price
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($358.95 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97M-ITX/AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($127.00 @ Vuugo)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($83.87 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 3TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($169.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($396.95 @ shopRBC)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case ($59.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: SeaSonic G 550W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ NCIX)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Fan ($22.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1459.38
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-04 07:49 EDT-0400

 

[DonkeyOatie]

On the case, the Silverstone HTPC ML07 case has the same guts as the RVZ01 and costs less (in USA) and is more subdued in styling. That is the choice I have just made. A smaller case gives more air-space around it in the cabinet to help both cooling and noise abatement.

The drawback is only one GPU slot on mini-ITX, but 970 and 980s are made which will fit.

 

[DarkSable]

Okay, sure you can... but why would you bother with that instead of putting $100 in your wallet by buying an i5 and getting the exact same gaming performance? You're making the assumption that if you can fit an i7, you should, but for the OP's needs, there's absolutely no reason to get it.

DonkeyOatie, thanks for that - I didn't realize that model was on the market yet. You're right that it's a far more svelte model.

EDIT: And it has two PCIe slot, doesn't it?

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Okay, sure you can... but why would you bother with that instead of putting $100 in your wallet by buying an i5 and getting the exact same gaming performance? You're making the assumption that if you can fit an i7, you should, but for the OP's needs, there's absolutely no reason to get it.

DonkeyOatie, thanks for that - I didn't realize that model was on the market yet. You're right that it's a far more svelte model.

EDIT: And it has two PCIe slot, doesn't it?

Yes. I'm putting my SFF in it. My wife sort of liked the RVZ01, but likes the ML07 even better.

We may be at crossed purposes, mini-ITX has only one PIC-e 16 slot - right? The ML07 will take only DTX or mini-ITX. (and the Raven RVZ01 too) If your EDIT was for another poster, sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[DarkSable]

Yes. I'm putting my SFF in it. My wife sort of liked the RVZ01, but likes the ML07 even better.

We may be at crossed purposes, mini-ITX has only one PIC-e 16 slot - right? The ML07 will take only DTX or mini-ITX. (and the Raven RVZ01 too) If your EDIT was for another poster, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ahh, sorry, I thought you were saying the case only had a single slot, meaning it could only take single slot cards.

I see what you mean now. (And to be honest, don't consider mini-ITX to be much of a drawback for the savings you get in size.)

 

[DonkeyOatie]

Yes. I'm putting my SFF in it. My wife sort of liked the RVZ01, but likes the ML07 even better.

We may be at crossed purposes, mini-ITX has only one PIC-e 16 slot - right? The ML07 will take only DTX or mini-ITX. (and the Raven RVZ01 too) If your EDIT was for another poster, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Ahh, sorry, I thought you were saying the case only had a single slot, meaning it could only take single slot cards.

I see what you mean now. (And to be honest, don't consider mini-ITX to be much of a drawback for the savings you get in size.)

I'm planning to put a single GTX970 in there when I buy it for my wife's birthday next year, although I'll see where the sweetspot is then.

 

[GreatWiseBob]

Thanks again for all the assistance, everyone. DS in particular --- I just got done being a two-job full-time student myself, and know how exhausting it can be. I appreciate you spending your free time on this. By the way, I followed the link in your sig: what ever happened to the wooden PC you were building? Looked exciting!

It looks like we're almost there! I'll try to keep these numbered for ease of reply:

1) Case and Space: I understand the cross-purposes of confined space and heat completely; it's what drove me to make the post. I was hoping that a small enough PC with good enough cooling could consider what little air there is in that space "enough" to avoid cooking. Sounds like that's not going to work out, so I will arrange to have it out in the open!

I'm thinking I'll go with the Prodigy since the cabinet just plain won't work, no matter how small I make the unit. That being the case, no pun intended, I'm leaning towards the Prodigy because I might actually choose to mod it, I prefer the aesthetics, and I've also got compatibility issues with the Ravens and both the cooler and the mobo. It's not a huge loss, since micro-small form is only relevant to me insofar as it impacts on sound and heat. If I'm putting the unit out in the open and not in the cabinet, I actually do have sufficient space. And, as stupid as it sounds, the handles are actually going to come in handy for me. I picked out the correct model here, I hope?

I would have thought more about the Ravens if the cabinet storage was feasible, but it sounds as though it simply won't be at any size.

2) Graphics Card: That answers the question perfectly! 980 it is.

3) No Overclocking: I switched to a non-overclocking CPU to cut costs at your recommendation and I settled on this one. What do you think? I had no plans on overclocking originally.

4) Motherboard Expensive: I picked it for being a microATX, non-overclocking mobo with wifi capability. There didn't seem to be too many other alternatives that were popular and well reviewed. I've now adopted angaddev's suggestion, which looks to be cheaper and still excellent.

5) 1600 vs. 1866 MHz RAM: Done!

6) I am indeed planning on paying a cable provider now that the student days are finally over. 😉 The goal is to pay a tiny cable bill and use the PC as the DVR. It's actually a huge cost saver around here.

7) I've also kicked the hard drive down to 2TB, along with changing the mobo and RAM to partially offset the cost of the better graphics card.

So it looks like we're here:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($224.98 @ DirectCanada)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($26.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H97N-WIFI Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard ($119.99 @ NCIX)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($83.87 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($82.89 @ DirectCanada)
Storage: Western Digital BLACK SERIES 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($139.98 @ DirectCanada)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB Video Card ($624.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: BitFenix Prodigy M Midnight MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($97.68 @ DirectCanada)
Power Supply: SeaSonic S12G 550W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($121.98 @ Newegg Canada)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-S12B FLX 59.2 CFM 120mm Fan ($19.99 @ Memory Express)
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A14 ULN 140mm Fan ($22.99 @ Memory Express)
Total: $1586.11
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-04 20:13 EDT-0400

Any further opinions gratefully encouraged --- can't wait to hit the Order button on this little beast!

 

[DarkSable]

It certainly is exhausting, yeah - but helping out on here is gratifying, and I enjoy it. Thanks for the compliment on the rig; half of it is sitting behind me, and I actually have the other half coming down to me in about a week when my grandfather comes into town for a couple days. It's been very slow going because the engineering department and the manufacturing department have been in different states, trying to work without any sort of budget at all. 😛

1) One of the things that might work is if you went with custom watercooling, and had the radiator outside the case, up at the top of the gap between the back of the media center and the wall - that way it would at least be getting a little fresh air. I was hesitant to mention it, because even done on a budget, a setup like that is going to be at least three hundred dollars to cover both the CPU and GPU.

No worries on the prodigy; it's a great case, and will do you well. Like I mentioned, I personally don't like the airflow in the Prodigy M (Which the Phenom M is the same exact case, with a different outer skin.), and would much rather have the original Prodigy. Since you have a mini-ITX case anyways, you wouldn't even have to change out your motherboard or anything.

2) Glad I could be of help.
Don't get me wrong, the 970 is a wonderful card, and I would recommend it in a lot of situations, but for this particular one, I think the 980 is a better fit.

3) If you aren't planning on overclocking, there's no reason to pay the premium for it - good catch with also switching to an H97 motherboard along with it. If you want to save a few bucks, there won't be much difference performance-wise between that and the i5-4460 for $30 less. You could also get away with not having a large CPU cooler in that case, and just run with the stock cooler. It isn't wonderful, but it'll cool an 84w chip with no problems, and it won't be noisy. (And if you decide that it is hideously noisy, well, you can buy a cooler without any problem.)

4) That's a mini ITX motherboard, but hey; it works. That's a a very good option, and Gigabyte motherboards tend to be fairly user-friendly.

6) Ahh, lucky you. Funny that it saves that much money, but hey; if it lets you get away from it, wonderful! However, two issues I see. One, your cable providers might work differently than ours, which I didn't think about. Do a little research into what capture method works best for your provider.

Also, mini-ITX only has one expansion slot. That's going to be used by the graphics card. That's not a big deal, though - there are actually more external options than internal ones.

7) Fair enough. I'd be surprised if you need more than 2TB, but if you do, you can add more down the road.

One thing to note is that the Prodigy is a little bit picky about how LONG its power supplies are. That guy is modular, so you might have a difficult time putting it all together. I suggest looking at the S12II 520w, which isn't modular.

You could also definitely save money by only buying the 140mm Noctua to go in the front - and using the stock back fan on the prodigy plus the stock fan on the 212 EVO. They aren't whisper quiet, but you definitely won't hear them from sitting on the couch.

 

[GreatWiseBob]

And there we go! The order's in. I swapped out the Phenom M for the original, once I realized that "Phenom" was actually the original you were talking about and not just a larger version of the M. Changed out the power supply just to be safe and went ahead to get all of the fans. I can always remove any of them if they eat too much power or make too much noise.

I guess that's the one leftover question: what's more efficient, putting the 140mm in the front and a 120mm at the top and rear, or both 120mms on the front and 140mm in the rear?

Can't express my gratitude enough to everyone for the replies --- I think I took at least one piece of advice from everybody. I also looked up what you get for $1600 at Best Buy and have been shaking my head for 24 hours solid. This place is a fantastic resource.

 

[DarkSable]

Well congratulations mate - you're going to be very, very pleased with yourself.

Generally you want to have slightly positive pressure within the case to help fight dust buildup in the cracks, so I would go with the two 120mm fans in the front, and the 140mm in the rear. (I can't remember, but you might have to remove the drive tray to get the bottom fan in there - I know I did with my thicker 230mm fan.)

Glad we could all help you out; you're going to be enjoying this system for a long time to come.

 

[angaddev]

Okay, sure you can... but why would you bother with that instead of putting $100 in your wallet by buying an i5 and getting the exact same gaming performance? You're making the assumption that if you can fit an i7, you should, but for the OP's needs, there's absolutely no reason to get it.

DonkeyOatie, thanks for that - I didn't realize that model was on the market yet. You're right that it's a far more svelte model.

EDIT: And it has two PCIe slot, doesn't it?

From the OP's requirements section

- Photoshop (up to 1GB files) and HD video editing (non-professional)

I know from experience that an i5 can give decent photoshop performance, but really isn't up to scratch for HD video editing, and 1GB images are 20x larger than the largest RAW files I've ever edited.

 

[GreatWiseBob]

Well congratulations mate - you're going to be very, very pleased with yourself.

Generally you want to have slightly positive pressure within the case to help fight dust buildup in the cracks, so I would go with the two 120mm fans in the front, and the 140mm in the rear. (I can't remember, but you might have to remove the drive tray to get the bottom fan in there - I know I did with my thicker 230mm fan.)

Glad we could all help you out; you're going to be enjoying this system for a long time to come.

And the best part is, I did it alllllll myself! 😀

Relieved to hear I sent the right fan specs to the shop. Still have a little of that decades-old knowledge kicking around up there.

Thanks again for everything. I'll post a picture when it comes in. It will be fascinating, I'm sure.

 

[GreatWiseBob]

Well, folks, the big day has arrived and the rig is a thing of beauty. It really is completely silent, which is incredible, and I've yet to notice more than just a whisper of heat off it, which is perfect. I've got to say, you guys really know your stuff!

Just one catch, though: the performance out of the video card has actually been fairly poor. Games and the nVidia toolkit recommend that I run games on the lowest settings, and while it tends to run low-ish demand games reasonably well, I'm not able to run anything at the highest setting. Skyrim chugs along with stalling and frame rate crashes at the High (not Ultra) setting, and Civ V can't be played on its highest settings without significant delays. HD video plays in beautiful crystal clarity but occasionally staggers (i.e., the top third of the screen seems to refresh a split-second faster than the middle third, which is a split-second faster than the bottom third, etc.)

I'm thinking I must be missing something here. Since there's no optical drive I wasn't able to use the installation CD; I just downloaded the most recent driver. Could that be my problem? Is there something else on that installation disc that's going to make the difference in terms of performance? Or is there something else I can check to clear out this underperformance?

I'm sure this is human error in some way. I see glimmers of this rig's power from time to time, but it just hasn't translated to even moderately high demand situations.

Thanks again for any help!