sliver question

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Greetings, All--

I'm a big fan of slivers. Of all the creature types that have been
introduced in Magic, I think they are the neatest. Just my 0.02
cents.

Anyway, I think I remember reading online somewhere that WotC hasn't
ruled out introducing more slivers in a future set. That is, it's not
anywhere near definite that they would come out with more, but it's a
possibility. If this is true, then what's the possibility that WotC
would come up with something like this:

Mana Sliver
2G
1/1
All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
is the number of slivers in play."

I don't know how unbalancing that would be, which is why I suggest
colorless mana. Maybe jump the casting cost to 2GG to add green mana
to your pool? Or 3GG to add mana of the color of your choice?

How silly would this be?

Scott
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On 21 May 2004 09:47:25 -0700, sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos)
wrote:

>Mana Sliver
>2G
>1/1
>All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
>is the number of slivers in play."

Bah-roken!

>I don't know how unbalancing that would be, which is why I suggest
>colorless mana. Maybe jump the casting cost to 2GG to add green mana
>to your pool? Or 3GG to add mana of the color of your choice?

This would produce x*(x+y) mana, x = number of slivers you control, y
= number of slivers your opponent controls.

Three sliver put you at 9 mana, and four at 16 - throw in two
fireballs and you have roast opponent.


Think about it. This is the exact same ability as that of Cloudpost,
but you can only have 4 Cloudposts in a deck, its a land so you can
only play one each turn, it comes into play tapped _and_ its still
tournament viable...
I hope we can agree that what you are proposing is _much_ better than
Cloudpost?

Cloudpost
Land -- Locus
~this~ comes into play tapped.
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool for each Locus in play.

>How silly would this be?

Very.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote in message news:<vjisa09jqcppe4dn67bjr1dg32vlcfe6gh@4ax.com>...
> On 21 May 2004 09:47:25 -0700, sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos)
> wrote:
>
> >Mana Sliver
> >2G
> >1/1
> >All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
> >is the number of slivers in play."
>
> Bah-roken!
>
> >I don't know how unbalancing that would be, which is why I suggest
> >colorless mana. Maybe jump the casting cost to 2GG to add green mana
> >to your pool? Or 3GG to add mana of the color of your choice?
>
> This would produce x*(x+y) mana, x = number of slivers you control, y
> = number of slivers your opponent controls.
>
> Three sliver put you at 9 mana, and four at 16 - throw in two
> fireballs and you have roast opponent.
>
>
> Think about it. This is the exact same ability as that of Cloudpost,
> but you can only have 4 Cloudposts in a deck, its a land so you can
> only play one each turn, it comes into play tapped _and_ its still
> tournament viable...
> I hope we can agree that what you are proposing is _much_ better than
> Cloudpost?
>
> Cloudpost
> Land -- Locus
> ~this~ comes into play tapped.
> {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool for each Locus in play.
>
> >How silly would this be?
>
> Very.

Yep. I knew it would be silly, but I didn't know exactly how high up
the silly-o-meter it would travel. You do raise some good points--and
you explain them very well.

Well, then let me ask this: since we are in agreement that a sliver
like this would definitely be insane silly, what would be a good cost,
if it produced colorless mana? 6GG? 5GGG? I'm thinking there has to
be a point where yeah, it's silly, but the cost is such that it's
almost impossible to drop it early game. Incidently, for some reason,
Darksteel Colossus just popped into my head. I mean an 11/11 trampler
that is really difficult to kill is also high on the silly-o-meter.
But WotC found a reasonable cost, all things considered.

What would the equivalent "reasonable cost" be for the proposed mana
sliver?

Scott
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos)
wrote:

>Simon Nejmann <snejmann@worldonline.REMOVETHIS.dk> wrote in message news:<vjisa09jqcppe4dn67bjr1dg32vlcfe6gh@4ax.com>...
>> On 21 May 2004 09:47:25 -0700, sfvajdos@hotmail.com (Scott Vajdos)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Mana Sliver
>> >2G
>> >1/1
>> >All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
>> >is the number of slivers in play."
>>
>> Bah-roken!
>>
>> >I don't know how unbalancing that would be, which is why I suggest
>> >colorless mana. Maybe jump the casting cost to 2GG to add green mana
>> >to your pool? Or 3GG to add mana of the color of your choice?
>>
>> This would produce x*(x+y) mana, x = number of slivers you control, y
>> = number of slivers your opponent controls.
>>
>> Three sliver put you at 9 mana, and four at 16 - throw in two
>> fireballs and you have roast opponent.
>>
>>
>> Think about it. This is the exact same ability as that of Cloudpost,
>> but you can only have 4 Cloudposts in a deck, its a land so you can
>> only play one each turn, it comes into play tapped _and_ its still
>> tournament viable...
>> I hope we can agree that what you are proposing is _much_ better than
>> Cloudpost?
>>
>> Cloudpost
>> Land -- Locus
>> ~this~ comes into play tapped.
>> {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool for each Locus in play.
>>
>> >How silly would this be?
>>
>> Very.
>
>Yep. I knew it would be silly, but I didn't know exactly how high up
>the silly-o-meter it would travel. You do raise some good points--and
>you explain them very well.

Thanks.

>Well, then let me ask this: since we are in agreement that a sliver
>like this would definitely be insane silly, what would be a good cost,
>if it produced colorless mana? 6GG? 5GGG? I'm thinking there has to
>be a point where yeah, it's silly, but the cost is such that it's
>almost impossible to drop it early game.

Its never impossible to drop early in the game - it's only a question
of whether it is worth the extra trouble, and here it certainly is...

Sneak Attack
{3}{R}
Enchantment
{R}: Put a creature card from your hand into play. That creature gains
haste until end of turn. Sacrifice the creature at end of turn.

Doomed Necromancer
{2}{B}
Creature -- Cleric Mercenary
2/2
{B}, {T}, Sacrifice ~this~: Return target creature card from your
graveyard to play.

Zombify
{3}{B}
Sorcery
Return target creature card from your graveyard to play.

Patriarch's Bidding
{3}{B}{B}
Sorcery
Each player chooses a creature type. Each player returns all creature
cards of a type chosen this way from his or her graveyard to play.

>Incidently, for some reason,
>Darksteel Colossus just popped into my head. I mean an 11/11 trampler
>that is really difficult to kill is also high on the silly-o-meter.
>But WotC found a reasonable cost, all things considered.
>
>What would the equivalent "reasonable cost" be for the proposed mana
>sliver?

I don't think you can do this one with high manacost alone, you also
need some serious come into play disadvantages and/or upkeep.

Actually I don't think that this one is doable... Maybe if it stopped
being a Sliver and you removed the "all Slivers gain" part, but then
you would just be left with a worse, Sliverific copy of Wirewood
Channeler.

Wirewood Channeler
{3}{G}
Creature -- Elf
2/2
{T}: Add X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the
number of Elves in play.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, Scott Vajdos wrote:


>> >Mana Sliver
>> >2G
>> >1/1
>> >All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
>> >is the number of slivers in play."
>>
>> Bah-roken!

The same could be said of Priest of Titania, then. I don't think this
would be a problem to win against. I have never had trouble with Slivers.

Sean
www.moxmonkeys.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"S W Ellis" <sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote in message
news😛an.2004.05.23.01.38.40.915104@moxmonkeys.com...
> On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, Scott Vajdos wrote:
>
>
> >> >Mana Sliver
> >> >2G
> >> >1/1
> >> >All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
> >> >is the number of slivers in play."
> >>
> >> Bah-roken!
>
> The same could be said of Priest of Titania, then. I don't think this
> would be a problem to win against. I have never had trouble with Slivers.

True, but the Priest, or priestess by the picture, only makes green mana.
The comparison would be made to Wirewood Chaneller and Cloudpost

(Of course in the right deck, the Priest IS insanely ridiculous as is
the Channeller and Cloudpost)

Though the effect is lessened somewhat by the fact that all the mana is
colourless, I think that fundamentally it's too good even with a
ridiculously
high casting cost. Perhaps if you based mana production on the sliver's
power or toughness then it might be a bit more reasonable.

I had an idea for a mana-generating Sliver once ... I believe that it went
something like

Krosan Sliver (Sliver of Paradise?)
4G
Creature -- Elf Sliver
3/3
All Slivers gain "Tap: Add 1 mana of any colour to your mana pool"

.... Thinking that I should drop the second type though. Might be too
much of an advantage based on the whole Onslaught block

Though what I really want to see are slivers that use enemy pairs of mana,
some of those abilities could be fun to see.

-------
Clayton
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

From the Collected Witterings of Clayton, volume 23:
> "S W Ellis" <sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote in message
> news😛an.2004.05.23.01.38.40.915104@moxmonkeys.com...
>> On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, Scott Vajdos wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> Mana Sliver
>>>>> 2G
>>>>> 1/1
>>>>> All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
>>>>> is the number of slivers in play."
>>>>
>>>> Bah-roken!
>>
>> The same could be said of Priest of Titania, then. I don't think this
>> would be a problem to win against. I have never had trouble with
>> Slivers.
>
> True, but the Priest, or priestess by the picture, only makes green mana.

Which is so much worse than only making colourless mana, of course. I mean,
the colourless mana can't be used to cast green spells as well.

> Perhaps if you based mana production on the sliver's
> power or toughness then it might be a bit more reasonable.

Yes, because there aren't really cheap Slivers that pump power and
toughness.

--
Twelve points to ... SLOVENIA!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"David Chapman" <jedit_ojanen8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2hb4ebFaf3fkU1@uni-berlin.de...
> From the Collected Witterings of Clayton, volume 23:
> > "S W Ellis" <sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote in message
> > news😛an.2004.05.23.01.38.40.915104@moxmonkeys.com...
> >> On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, Scott Vajdos wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>> Mana Sliver
> >>>>> 2G
> >>>>> 1/1
> >>>>> All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where
x
> >>>>> is the number of slivers in play."
> >>>>
> >>>> Bah-roken!
> >>
> >> The same could be said of Priest of Titania, then. I don't think this
> >> would be a problem to win against. I have never had trouble with
> >> Slivers.
> >
> > True, but the Priest, or priestess by the picture, only makes green
mana.
>
> Which is so much worse than only making colourless mana, of course. I
mean,
> the colourless mana can't be used to cast green spells as well.
>
> > Perhaps if you based mana production on the sliver's
> > power or toughness then it might be a bit more reasonable.
>
> Yes, because there aren't really cheap Slivers that pump power and
> toughness.

Yes, I'm well aware of the existence of Muscle and Plated Slivers, and
Blade
if you want to call 3 mana cheap. (The sarcasm was noted and ignored)

Either way, it could get awfully sick awfully fast

-------
Clayton
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 22 May 2004 20:38:41 -0500, "S W Ellis"
<sellis@moxmonkeys.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 21 May 2004 22:15:43 -0700, Scott Vajdos wrote:
>
>
>>> >Mana Sliver
>>> >2G
>>> >1/1
>>> >All slivers gain "Tap: Add x colorless mana to your mana pool, where x
>>> >is the number of slivers in play."
>>>
>>> Bah-roken!
>
>The same could be said of Priest of Titania, then. I don't think this
>would be a problem to win against. I have never had trouble with Slivers.

Not quite.

Priest of Titania
{1}{G}
Creature -- Elf
1/1
{T}: Add {G} to your mana pool for each Elf in play.

With the Priest and X Elves in play you can generate X mana.
With the Mana Sliver and X Slivers in play you can generate X*X mana.

Or to put it in a table:
In play Elf mana Sliver mana
1 1 1
2 2 4
3 3 9
4 4 16
5 5 25

It't the "All Slivers gain" in combination with "generate X mana" that
breaks it.
A non-broken version should either remove the "All Slivers gain" part,
but that would break the Sliver theme (could call it Sliver Harvester
make it a Elf or Human or something though). Or make it: All slivers
gain "Tap: Add 1 colorless mana to your mana pool". That would make it
worse than the priest (has to tap more), but would make it a better
version of Birchlore Rangers.

Birchlore Rangers
{G}
Creature -- Elf
1/1
Tap two untapped Elves you control: Add one mana of any color to your
mana pool.
Morph {G} (You may play this face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn
it face up any time for its morph cost.)

An alternative way, that would fit better with Fifth Dawn if you care
about that sort of thing, would be to make it:
All slivers gain "Tap: Add 1 mana to your mana pool of any of the
colors of that creatures has".
Ok, I can't get that worded in a good way - the meaning is that eg.
Crystalline Sliver would get the ability to tap for either W or U.

Crystalline Sliver
{W}{U}
Creature -- Sliver
2/2
Slivers can't be the targets of spells or abilities.

--
Regards
Simon Nejmann
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.misc (More info?)

"Clayton" <redneckdadd@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:%sUrc.99669$325.2445860@news20.bellglobal.com:

> I had an idea for a mana-generating Sliver once ... I believe that it
> went something like
>
> Krosan Sliver (Sliver of Paradise?)
> 4G
> Creature -- Elf Sliver
> 3/3
> All Slivers gain "Tap: Add 1 mana of any colour to your mana pool"
>
> ... Thinking that I should drop the second type though. Might be too
> much of an advantage based on the whole Onslaught block

That still sounds powerful to me. As soon as this sliver comes down, all
slivers already in play will be able to tap for mana. How about an ability
which reads: 'All Slivers gain 'Sacrifice this sliver: Add 1 mana of any
color to your mana pool'. It's more reasonable, but still has the potential
for mayhem, especially with Quick Sliver. And it will aid the sliver player
in playing a multicolor deck while forcing him to make touch choices.
Because its a less powerful effect you could put it on a sliver with a more
reasonable casting cost; a 2/2 for 2G perhaps?
 
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