Slow to boot, login, load ...just everything.

alexoldshane

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Hello all!

So, having an issue with my wife's desktop. Recently got it back from sager - had to be sent in for repairs because it was shutting down by itself by instantly turning off. They replaced the MoBo and sent it back. Was all good for a couple weeks, but now we're having another problem.

Currently, it only takes about 5 mins to boot - Gets to the "Starting Windows" screen and then it begins to take forever. However, it takes no less than 15 minutes to login (Welcome with the loading icon next to it for 15 mins), and it also takes about 10 minutes to load the desktop.

Also, the computer has become slow. Talking... Internet Explorer back in 92 with a virus slow. Took almost a full minute just to close the Event Log Window before I attempted to use cmd.

Runs Windows 7-64bit and runs on an i5 with nvidia graphics card. Wasn't doing this before, and no idea why it is now. In addition, it had undergone two BSODs recently. However, when I went to check them they weren't in the log. Wife says didn't restore to last working point, but... who knows.

I've been searching around and tried to look at the Event log for startup via
Code:
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itprohardware/thread/3cc721e0-279e-488d-918b-f4d5a5102845/
However, the cmd returns with: "Failed to open event query. The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error."

I can't find anything whatsoever on this error. All I get in results is results related to SQL, full backup, and server errors.
I have no idea how to go about fixing this. Going to keep looking around but if anyone can help, would be wonderful.

Thanks in advance!
 
1. To start disable startup programs: Start \ Run or Search bar \ type "msconfig" (no quotes) and press Enter, Click on the Startup tab and uncheck all processes except for the Antivirus process. Next click on the Services tab and check "Hide all Microsoft Services" and uncheck any service related to the application you unchecked in Startup... Next press Apply and OK.

More detailed information here:
How to perform a clean boot to troubleshoot a problem in Windows Vista, Windows 7, or Windows 8
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929135

2. In the Run command or search bar type "%temp%" and later "temp" deleeting every temporal file you find in those folders.

3. Install Ccleaner to clean the system from temporal files, old or unnecessary settings, residual log files, etc. This application can be used to perform #1 and 2 suggestions except for disabling the unecessary Services.

4. Install Ultimate Windows Tweaker to apply settings that improve system performance, network

Ultimate Windows Tweaker 2.2
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/Ultimate-Windows-Tweaker.shtml

5. Install Malwarebytes Antimalware to search for possible malware that can cause system damage and slow it down.

6. Update your antivirus and perform a complete system scan.

7. Use the installation disk to repair the system startup

How to Run a Startup Repair in Windows 7
http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/681-startup-repair.html

As for the Device error, it would help if you describe the computer, give some system specifications or computer make and model and what devices are attached to the I/O back pannel
 

alexoldshane

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Said she ran AVG full scan earlier and it didn't find anything. I have AVG's PCTuneup installed and it already has all the tweak stuff done. Thanks for the tip though.
 


OK, noted... but if after applying all the suggestions there isn't noticeable improvement you may have to do a second or even third virus scan. It can be done after a virus reinstall, with a different antivirus, a portable antivirus, an online virus scan, etc. Antivirus applications can suffer corruption (even infection) like any other applications, and if so, they can affect system performance more so than probably most applications... so a second or third virus scan is not out of the question... if it becomes necessary.

EDIT: Additionally, no Antivirus is a 100% effective, everyday new viruses are released but antivirus developers may incorporate them on their virus deffinition updates, some sooner, some later or even a lot later.. so, that makes security applications (including antimalware apps) efective only up to a reasonable %. A while ago, a newscast said security applications were only efective up to about 80%... so sometimes the use of a different antivirus can detect what the installed or previous antivirus didn't... or if a virus scan didn't detect a thing a few days ago, it may detect it a few days later after receiving new deffinitions.
 

alexoldshane

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For the I/O error, I just saw you asked for laptop specs.

It's a Sager built on a NP5135 - (Not a typo; for some reason it's not listed almost anywhere anymore)

Display - 15.6" Full HD LED Display with Super Glossy Surface (1920 x 1080)
Video & Graphics Card - 1GB DDR3 Nvidia GeForce GT 425M GPU with Optimus Technology / Embedded Intel HD Graphics with Shared Memory up to 1.7GB
CPU Processor - Intel® Core™ i5-580M Processor ( 32nm, 3MB L3 Cache, 2.66GHz / 3.33GHz Turbo Mode )
Thermal Compound IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
Operating System - Genuine MS Windows® 7 Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition ( 64-Bit Preloaded )
Memory - 8GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 2 X 4GB
Primary Hard Disk Drive - 500GB 7200rpm SATA 300 Hard Drive
Optical Drive - 8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software
Wireless Network Card - Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
Bluetooth - Internal Bluetooth V2.1 Module
Primary Battery - Smart Li-ION Battery Pack (6 Cells 62.16WH)
Integrated Security Device - Fingerprint Reader


The above is basically a copy/paste of the order that was placed. As for whats "attached", I'm not sure what you mean as it's a laptop. Currently there's nothing hooked up to it aside a bottom-side usb plug'n'play air-cooler.
 
OK, I asked for specifications to have a better idea of how fast it should run and what could possibly be making it run so slow. As for "what's attached" I meant what devices are connected to the I/O panel because you described it as a "desktop" (PC) which can have externally connected devices such as keyboard, mouse, monitor, USB devices, as well as PCI connections... and you mentioned "the cmd returns with an I/O device error". On a laptop I/O devices (described here) can be the usual devices you'd normally have externally connected on a PC. They can be touchpad, ten-key pad, a USB Pendrive, USB Hard Disk, any device connected to USB port.. even the laptop screen can be considered as a I/O (Input/Output) device in Windows which is not written specifically for either PC or Laptop just computers.

[FIX] Windows 7 Slow Boot (Startup Process) Due to So Many System Restore Points
http://www.askvg.com/fix-windows-7-slow-boot-startup-process-due-to-so-many-system-restore-points/



Some google results related to "The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error."

1117 The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error. ERROR_IO_DEVICE
http://www.tharo.com/documents/printing_troubleshooter/win32_error_codes.htm

ERROR_IO_DEVICE 1117 (0X45D)
You may want to try Advanced System Care link on this page
http://blog.iobit.com/error_io_device-1117-0x45d_1699.html

Error Code 0x45d
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/14646-63-error-code-0x45d

15min boot ups and BSOD, error 0x45d, windows 7, now wont boot at all
http://www.techspot.com/community/topics/15min-boot-ups-and-bsod-error-0x45d-windows-7-now-wont-boot-at-all.168386/
Possible error codes: 0xffffffffc0000006, 0xfffff80002c99797, 0xfffff880009a91a8, 0xfffff880009a8a10

A search for previous error codes produces this link:
http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/f217/norton-360-seems-to-be-crashing-my-computer-589872.html

The comments in techsupport forum mention Norton antivirus as the possible cause for long boot times. This reminds me of a booting problem I recently had that woul also cause all my web browsers to constantly crash. The frequent booting problems affected all boot devices; HDD & Optical drives, Live CD, Installation Disk all would return errors almost everytime. I would get either a blue screen with error codes that pointed to a device error, RAM error, etc. or would get an interrupted boot with error messages on a black screen. My antivirus was having trouble updating sometimes, so I unistalled it with Revo Uninstaller and reinstalled the Antivirus clean, and all problems were solved. My antivirus is Avast and in Techsupport they mention Norton... so it's not the antivirus brand itself but corrupted antivirus files. The antivirus monitors all system activities apparently including the boot process, so it would be adviceable to remove your antivirus and either install it clean or install another one. I would advice this even if you're not having any antivirus related problems, because I didn't think mine was the cause since I had experienced the updating problem before, but the final result made it clearly evident that antivirus corruption was the whole problem.
 

alexoldshane

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Will certainly look into that. Currently running a diskcheck which has been taking forever. There were some files that needed to be restored/recovered and so we're currently looking at a good bit of time to fix that judging by how far along it is after the time that has passed. Will update the thread when got more info. Thanks!
 

alexoldshane

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Alright. So, for an update. Diskcheck finally finished and event viewer now works. Ran malware bytes and virus scanned couple times. Came out clean.

In event viewer, I'm looking at a couple giving warning/critical messages.

Code:
Critical 
- EventData 

  BootTsVersion 2 
  BootStartTime 2013-03-10T19:42:10.671600300Z 
  BootEndTime 2013-03-10T19:47:50.313395500Z 
  SystemBootInstance 195 
  UserBootInstance 173 
  BootTime 317396 
  MainPathBootTime 168974 
  BootKernelInitTime 21 
  BootDriverInitTime 24342 
  BootDevicesInitTime 1051 
  BootPrefetchInitTime 0 
  BootPrefetchBytes 0 
  BootAutoChkTime 0 
  BootSmssInitTime 24805 
  BootCriticalServicesInitTime 8850 
  BootUserProfileProcessingTime 5904 
  BootMachineProfileProcessingTime 0 
  BootExplorerInitTime 65529 
  BootNumStartupApps 1 
  BootPostBootTime 148422 
  BootIsRebootAfterInstall false 
  BootRootCauseStepImprovementBits 0 
  BootRootCauseGradualImprovementBits 0 
  BootRootCauseStepDegradationBits 0 
  BootRootCauseGradualDegradationBits 0 
  BootIsDegradation false 
  BootIsStepDegradation false 
  BootIsGradualDegradation false 
  BootImprovementDelta 0 
  BootDegradationDelta 0 
  BootIsRootCauseIdentified false 
  OSLoaderDuration 15148 
  BootPNPInitStartTimeMS 21 
  BootPNPInitDuration 1175 
  OtherKernelInitDuration 17145 
  SystemPNPInitStartTimeMS 18243 
  SystemPNPInitDuration 24218 
  SessionInitStartTimeMS 42538 
  Session0InitDuration 3780 
  Session1InitDuration 618 
  SessionInitOtherDuration 20406 
  WinLogonStartTimeMS 67343 
  OtherLogonInitActivityDuration 30195 
  UserLogonWaitDuration 22247 

Warning - Explorer.exe
- EventData 

  StartTime 2013-03-10T19:42:10.671600300Z 
  NameLength 13 
  Name explorer.exe 
  FriendlyNameLength 17 
  FriendlyName Windows Explorer 
  VersionLength 38 
  Version 6.1.7600.16385 (win7_rtm.090713-1255) 
  TotalTime 25731 
  DegradationTime 20731 
  PathLength 24 
  Path C:\Windows\explorer.exe 
  ProductNameLength 37 
  ProductName Microsoft® Windows® Operating System 
  CompanyNameLength 22 
  CompanyName Microsoft Corporation 

Warning - avgwdsvc.exe
- EventData 

  StartTime 2013-03-10T19:42:10.671600300Z 
  NameLength 13 
  Name avgwdsvc.exe 
  FriendlyNameLength 21 
  FriendlyName AVG Watchdog Service 
  VersionLength 12 
  Version 10.0.0.1295 
  TotalTime 15158 
  DegradationTime 10158 
  PathLength 46 
  Path C:\Program Files (x86)\AVG\AVG10\avgwdsvc.exe 
  ProductNameLength 22 
  ProductName AVG Internet Security 
  CompanyNameLength 28 
  CompanyName AVG Technologies CZ, s.r.o. 

Warning - winlogon.exe
- EventData 

  StartTime 2013-03-10T19:42:10.671600300Z 
  NameLength 13 
  Name winlogon.exe 
  FriendlyNameLength 26 
  FriendlyName Windows Logon Application 
  VersionLength 41 
  Version 6.1.7601.17514 (win7sp1_rtm.101119-1850) 
  TotalTime 1118 
  DegradationTime 118 
  PathLength 33 
  Path C:\Windows\System32\winlogon.exe 
  ProductNameLength 37 
  ProductName Microsoft® Windows® Operating System 
  CompanyNameLength 22 
  CompanyName Microsoft Corporation 

Warning - rpcss
- EventData 

  StartTime 2013-03-10T19:42:10.671600300Z 
  NameLength 6 
  Name rpcss 
  FriendlyNameLength 25 
  FriendlyName Distributed COM Services 
  VersionLength 41 
  Version 6.1.7601.17514 (win7sp1_rtm.101119-1850) 
  TotalTime 873 
  DegradationTime 697 
  PathLength 30 
  Path C:\Windows\system32\rpcss.dll 
  ProductNameLength 37 
  ProductName Microsoft® Windows® Operating System 
  CompanyNameLength 22 
  CompanyName Microsoft Corporation
Can't seem to find the Windows 7 Installation disc so that I can run a repair, but am still looking for it. Not sure how to handle those events as they're pretty well system based as far as I'm aware. avgwgsvc is avg's "watchdog" deal. Plan on reinstalling it, but still looking at those other files as causing an issue. Computer has sped up a good deal in terms of logon/boot and such. However, still no where near where it should be, and still slow while trying to do anything. Took me a good couple minutes to navigate in order to email that info to myself.
 
Seems that all events point to a possible infection.. if scans have turned nothing it's possible the Antivirus is itself infected and AVG Watchdog Service shouldn't register an event unless it's having issues.. so it's possible the Antivirus is at least part of the problem. If you google AVG Watchdog Service you'll find around 100,000 results some of them about it causing up to 100% CPU ussage.. which can only be explained if it's corrupted or infected.

RPCSS overrrun also poses the posibility of a security issue

Explorer is probably the consequence of the above issues

Winlogon can also be infected

So my suggestion is you do an online virus scan, or uninstall AVG removing it's registry data and any remaining files using Revo Uninstaller and clean all remaining registry data and AVG files, next restart and reinstall it or install another antivirus, and do a complete virus scan.
 

alexoldshane

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Went to try to do the above. However, upon starting the laptop (had gone into sleep mode due to inactivity), it started its resume process as normal. Went to put in the password to login, and it BSOD. Didn't get to read much of it, but figured would just check it out with bluescreen viewer program and see whats up. But when I went to turn it on, it ran the boot all fine, but immediately after boot screen, just stops. Like, the laptop itself is still running - i can hear it and while the screen is black(not off) you can still clearly tell its on.

I can't get it past this point. Can't get it to boot into safemode or anything. I've let it sit for about an hour and hoped it'd load the OS, but not doing anything. Not sure what, if anything, there is that I can do now.
 
Sleep Mode or Hibernation can cause such problems.. what I do when this happens is delete the Hiberfil.sys file (C:\Hiberfil.sys). If logon isn't possible, I use the Hirens Boot CD (Live CD).. it can be loaded to a USB pendrive if the computer doesn't have a CD/DVD drive. The HDD can also be connected to any computer via USB in a USB enclosure or on PCs via SATA/IDE adapter, and as 2nd HDD on dual HDD laptops. Where the HDD can be accessed as any drive letter and the Hiberfil file can be deleted. While it's there you can scan it with the installed anativirus and delete use and system temp files.

Hiren's Boot CD
http://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd

Hiren's Boot USB
http://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd-on-usb-disk
 

alexoldshane

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Okay. Was actually about to attempt your solution Chicano until the Startup Repair screen began to load. It's now doing this at all times. As in, it won't actually load a login page, but will forever load the startup repair. Says that its an error that can't be automatically fixed. I'm going to check around and see if I have any extra cables laying around that I can use to connect to my PC, but not too sure. Figured I'd put this up and see if your opinion changed at all while I was working this bit out.
 
If you mean the Hiren's Live CD's login page?.... I had this same problem a couple of weeks ago.. either the Hiren's Boot CD or Installation disk caused a BSOD or error messages... the problem was; corrupted antivirus (not infected)... I removed it and installed it clean and problem solved... the difference is Windows didn't have a problem loading.

Trying with a cable to access it from another computer may prove a bit tricky and possibly a more practicall approach would be connecting the HD directly to another computer via USB, or second HD if the host laptop has twin HDD capability. Then deleting the antivirus folder and through the remote registry delete the main antivirus registry keys... this can also be a bit difficult so it would probably be more practical to just delete the antivirus folder and try to logon to the installed Windows, if the logon is successfull, then reinstall the antivirus, next remove it again, this time with Revo Uninstaller to fully clean the antivirus registry keys, and next reinstall the antivirus clean or install a different antivirus.
 

alexoldshane

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Sorry. I meant the windows login screen. I ended up just hooking the laptop's drive to my computer as another HDD. Scanned it with virus scanner and came up clean. Going to run a couple more scans just to see.

Currently running a diskcheck via my computer to check the laptop as the ones ran from the laptop itself weren't very informative. Hopefully afterwards I can get the Minidump logs and see if anything "good" is there. I attempted to get into the laptop drive, however it brought up some security issue. I apologize for not being able to provide full details on that right now, but running the check and is currently dismounted.

EDIT: After the disk check, went to remove AVG from the drive and got the error: "F:\ is not accessible. The File or Directory is corrupt and unreadable." However, drive D which is the system section(which appears as its own separate drive... not sure) for the laptop's drive is accessible. It still has data in it I assume as it's 157MB Free of 199MB, just all hidden folders/files.

Now my question is this: The harddrive itself gone bad, or is it something a format can fix? Also, there anyway to get anything off it? Don't know how much of it was backed up, so just thought I'd ask.
 
I forgot to mention the Security issues you would encounter and to also include the solutions... All these problems can be solved by taking ownership of the Laptop HDD's Windows Security (C:\Properties\Security) which is inaccessible to anyone not registered among the Laptop's users.. to have full access you need to Take Ownership from the C:\Properties\Security. Full instructions in the kb2623670 article. The D drive is probably the Recovery Partition, the partition size sounds appropriate.. so don't format it... at least not untill you're sure you will not need it in the future.

The concrete answer to your last question is: The hard drive is apparently in good condition, but take ownership of the every partition on it to gain full access so you can backup everything if you have to, but leave that for later when you have unsuccessfully exhausted all options to recover the installed Windows. After taking ownership, another virus scan would be advised, because if it wasn't fully accessible to the antivirus, it's possible it didn't do a complete scan.

A junk file cleanup of the laptop's HDD would also be suggested. To do this use CCleaner adding the Laptop HDD's Windows drive letter to be scanned as follows: Click on the CCleaner Options\Add\Drive or folder\Browse\Select Drive *X:\ and press OK\mark File Types and type (w/o quotes): "*.tmp;*.log" and press OK.. and the drive should be added under "Custom files to delete and folders to empty". Next click on Cleaner and Analize to clean junk files off of it.

(*Where X represents the Laptop's Installed Windows drive)

"Access Denied" or other errors when accessing or working with files and folders in Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2623670/en
 

alexoldshane

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I see. Went to take ownership, and when I finally got the properties screen to load, there wasn't a security tab at all.
Just: General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Customize, Previous Versions.

Previously when I ran the disk check, it had to unmount the drive to be able to check it while my computer was still running. Wasn't a big deal so just let it do its thing. Went into disk management to see if the reason I couldn't access it was due to it still being dismounted and just being shown in the My Computer screen. Activated the drive, but nothing happened. A concern I have is when looking at it via the disk management, is it is shows as a RAW instead of NTFS, while the system partition on it is still NTFS.

So, still having the issue of being unable to work with it due to it being inaccessible due to "corruption", but I'm not sure if thats just a result of it being listed as raw instead of NTFS or what. Either way, I'm not able to access the drive whatsoever now whereas pre-diskcheck I could at least get in and see that files/folders did exist.
 


Go to Explorer \ Tools menu \ Folder Options \ or Control Panel \ Folder Options \ View \ scroll to the bottom and uncheck to Disable "Simple File Sharing (recommended)"... If the OS on that computer is Home Edition, you may have to logon in Safe Mode to see the Security Tab... the KB article includes all necessary information and procedure.

Did you restart the computer after Activating the drive?...
Igf you can see the Drive in Windows Explorer\My Computer, the drive's file system is NTFS..
For better drive readings and checks, use a Partition Manager rather than with Windows Disk Management. You'll probable get a more accurate reading of it's condition, partition file system and even diskcheks.

Any one of the following will do the job better than Windows Disk Management:
Minitool Partition Manager, Aeseus Partition Master, Partition Magic, etc. If you do install one of these, download the Home or free editions.. just a few tools in them may be disabled but are mostly unecessary.

I don't think it's disk corruption.. it's a possibility, but if it were the computer would have trouble recognising it. USB may make it more easily recognisable but you have to first try to correctly access it before a deffinite conclusion can be reached. After you take Ownership if it's still impossible to access it, my suggestion would be to DISK CHECK it with a third party Partition Manager. If the problem persists afterwards you may want to create a small new partition with any of the Partition Managers and see if you can write/read on it... that woud test the HDD condition.
 

alexoldshane

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Got another issue now. Was taking ownership of the drive, and this ended up taking a while. Got to a file it appeared to have gotten stuck on, but I figured allowing it to take time was the best option so I let it sit overnight. Woke up this morning and power went out momentarily. Drive is no longer detected. It spins up just fine, no weird noises at all. Just not being shown in My Computer section nor is it shown in Disk Management nor Minitool Partition manager.

Not sure what the problem is. Cords are fine - hooked up another drive to it and it read fine. I don't have ability to set up via USB enclosure atm either so can't really test that way.
 
I'm curious to know how you are connecting the HDD to the PC? PCI adapter, IDE adapter, SATA adapter. what make & model is your PC?
------------------------------------------------
See if this helps:
On the Start\Run or search bar, type CMD.EXE and hit Enter
Next type DISKPART
Next type LIST VOLUME
A list of volumes or drives will appear on the screen, even those that are not visible in Computer or Windows Explorer

If you see the HDD with device number and drive letter, the problem is in Windows, so this next: Go to Start\Run or search bar and type "Regedit" (no quotes) hit enter and in the Windows registry browse to the registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices ... and from the right pane of Mounted Devices, select all values and delete them, and next restart the computer.
This will create new values renewing the drive letters in case it's due to registry corruption which can happen if you have added and removed drives a number of time to the computer...

After the restart check again in Computer, Disk Management, and the DISKPART Volume list, if it's not detected by Windows, check if the BIOS detects the HDD. Restart the computer and enter the BIOS, see if the HDD is detected even if Windows doesn't. If the BIOS doesn't detect it... Go to the Exit menu, and select Reset the BIOS to default values and Exit... restart the computer with CTRL+ALT+DELETE and see if the BIOS now detects the HDD.. if it still doesn't, shut the computer off, and reset the BIOS removing the battery and wait 10 minutes before putting it back on. Search in the BIOS for a setting where it makes reference on having a Plug and Play Operating System, and disable it so the BIOS doesn't leave detection up to Windows. Restart and check the BIOS again for HDD detection.

If still nothing, the HDD may have died. They sometimes die without noises or apparent damage, When this happens, the intergrated circuit board is likely been damaged and replacing it can restore HDDs.. but the problem is findidng a compatible board because they are not sold, you have to remove it from a compatible HDD... so you have to find a HDD of the same make, and possibly the same model and size.
 

alexoldshane

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Mine is a homebuilt PC desktop. - Not sure what info you'd be looking for, but let me know. Sorry not very helpful in that bit.

Currently connecting to the HDD via SATA.

The DiskPart/ListVolume commands didn't show the drive. Just my personal harddrive.

Not sure what you mean by "after deleting the Mounted Devices values".

As for if it has died, wouldn't it just not spin up at all if that were the case? Like, I can feel and hear it humming as it normally would. I've only had one die before and wasn't in this manner - fell and just didn't want to go (not really "died" but only real relation I've got).

 
Just wanted to have a better idea of the host computer and how you were connecting the HDD to it.
You may have a better chance of detection and access from a USB enclosure since you can connect and remove it while the computer is running previous configuration obviously.. and installed on the IDE/SATA Channels it has to be detected from boot.

I meant after deleting the "Mounted Devices" registry key contents* (or values), in case Windows doesnt see the HDD due to registry corruption in those values... deleting them will renew them after restarting Windows for a better chance of detecting it. I honestly don't think it will work, but you have to make every last possible effort to have it detected.

(*Go to Start\Run or search bar and type "Regedit" [no quotes) hit enter and in the Windows registry browse to the registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices).

No, they can fail in different ways.. most every failed HDD keeps running but they just don't work good enough to be detected... some make different noises, some don't spin fast enough to be usable, and some spin normally, don't make abnormal noises but they still don't work... I had one fail a few months ago, it started having data detection problems that worsened as I tried to recover files, it later had HD detection problems, and later lost detection completely. According to a YT video this type of failure is due to IC Board damage.
 

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