Slower Than A K|NGP|N, Faster Than Everything Else: EVGA Reveals GTX 980 Ti FTW

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dstarr3

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so far it a classy with the vrm's cut back to 8+2 from 14+3 ? time will tell when a good look under the hood [cooler off] to see what other board changes may of occurred between them ?
I'd imagine the same kind of changes between any Classified and FTW.
 

junkeymonkey

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well for what evga stated its just the vrm ?? but I don't know seems evga is not looking so good with there 900 cards to me

like they could hardly keep cards in stock but yet keep releasing another new line there first gtx 980 classy got phased out and revised do to a vrm issue ??
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2786425/difference-gtx-980-evga.html

kinda reminds me of how BFG got before there end .. just feel evga has too many irons in there fire , and it shows .. what do they got now just under the 980ti line up now 8-10 cards just for that line ??

[opinion]
 

maban

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I don't see the point of this card. It's only $10 less than the Classified and has less VRM and power target.
 

kcarbotte

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The classified edition has 16+4 power phase, and an upper limit of 300w.
theoretically the classified should handle a better overclock, but they will be very very close either way.
 

hasten

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Misleading title. Should specify they are only talking about EVGA cards since there are faster ti's on the market... Kingpin isn't even that fast, AMP Extreme smokes it at stock.
 

wtfxxxgp

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Misleading title. Should specify they are only talking about EVGA cards since there are faster ti's on the market... Kingpin isn't even that fast, AMP Extreme smokes it at stock.
Misleading title...yeah, I agree, it could be. It hasn't even been reviewed and benchmarked so I'll give you that one. Saying that Kingpin isn't that fast... are you forgetting the point of that card? It wasn't meant to stay stock. It's an ultra-enthusiast card for folks who won't shy away from O/C'ing to the extreme. So your comment is misleading too.
 
The KIngpIn, like anything else, is over clocked as far as EVGA or whichever vendor is willing to put it in the box. This is how far they are willing to risk as anything that isn't stable at these speeds will be returned. I have "been there, done that" with EVGA (5 RMAs for that reason alone).

The MSI Lightning also comes out of the box with same stats. The KIngpIn has the same stats except you have to use EVGA's OC mode to match the memory settings.:

Core - 1203
Memory - 7096 (7010 - OC mode brings to 7096))
Boost - 1304
Peak Power - 1375

Another thing.... no reference card is meant to "stay stock". Th Lightning and HOF are no different than the KIngpIn in this respect.
 

gmuser

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Looks like intentionally misleading ;p
I have ASUS 980Ti STRIX, and I have no idea if that is "Faster Than Everything Else", but its lowest quoted speed is same as this EVGA (1291/1190), while its OC preset mode (basically, guaranteed OC speed at 1317/1216) is much faster.
OC Mode - GPU Boost Clock : 1317 MHZ , GPU Base Clock : 1216 MHz
Gaming Mode (Default) - GPU Boost Clock : 1291 MHZ , GPU Base Clock : 1190 MHz
In fact, it was also mentioned on Toms: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asus-strix-gtx-980-ti,29505.html
 
I have ASUS 980Ti STRIX, and I have no idea if that is "Faster Than Everything Else", but its lowest quoted speed is same as this EVGA (1291/1190), while its OC preset mode (basically, guaranteed OC speed at 1317/1216) is much faster.
1. The regular Asus Strix does not achieve those numbers, here's the numbers for the 980 Ti Strix

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121979

Core Clock = 1000 MHz
Boost Clock = 1075 MHz
Effective Memory Clock = 7010 MHz
2. I think what you are talking about is the STRIX-GTX980TI-DC3OC-6GD5-GAMING is a different card and it is Asus' equivalent to the Lightning and Classified. It was nice to see Asus return to the upper tier with this release ... we haven't seen them compete st this level since the 6xx series.

3. Normally, you have a legitimate cause for an RMA only in the default mode. The OC Mode is not guaranteed. I don't think that things have changed given the $20 cost difference between the cards.

4. And yes, a minor core clock increase of 25 MHz (2%) is almost a sure thing ... but it's the same argument as saying "a 970 can be overclocked to the same speed as a 980" .... that's not really significant as the 980 can be overclocked too. All these cards can be overclocked, that is the entire basis of their design. Binning the chips allows them to reach the advertised speeds, the PCB design let's them go further.


 

gmuser

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1. The regular Asus Strix does not achieve those numbers, here's the numbers for the 980 Ti Strix

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121979

Core Clock = 1000 MHz
Boost Clock = 1075 MHz
Effective Memory Clock = 7010 MHz
2. I think what you are talking about is the STRIX-GTX980TI-DC3OC-6GD5-GAMING is a different card and it is Asus' equivalent to the Lightning and Classified

3. Normally, you have a legitimate cause for an RMA only in the default mode. The OC Mode is not guaranteed. I don't think that things have changed given the $20 cost difference between the cards.
1. Thanks for pointing this out, I was not even aware that ASUS have second, slower, 'STRIX' 980 Ti. Although, they are both 'regular' - both named 'STRIX 980 Ti' . Note also that linked Tomshardware article also describe faster card (1216/1316), and calls it '980 Ti STRIX'

2.Yes, I'm talking about that one, since that is one I have, but more importantly, since that one is making "Faster Than Everything Else" invalid ;p

3. You are quite probably correct, I never did check RMA conditions on those
 

gmuser

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4. And yes, a minor core clock increase of 25 MHz (2%) is almost a sure thing ... but it's the same argument as saying "a 970 can be overclocked to the same speed as a 980" .... that's not really significant as the 980 can be overclocked too. All these cards can be overclocked, that is the entire basis of their design. Binning the chips allows them to reach the advertised speeds, the PCB design let's them go further.
That is true, but it is not relevant in this case - both EVGA and ASUS decide which chip to put in which product based on binning.

What is relevant here is that article claimed that EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW is "Faster Than Everything Else except EVGA K|NGP|N", and that is false claim.

Even if we go with best case comparison for author, and compare only default speeds (base/boost), it is not "faster" than STRIX OC, it is merely "same". And if we use more realistic comparison (compare defaults speeds, then compare factory OC speeds), then EVGA (default=1190/1291; factoryOC=none) is clearly slower than STRIX (default=1190/1291; factoryOC=1216/1317)
 
I agreed that it was a misleading claim in my post. That's not what the part of my post you quoted is referring to. The title said nothing about the Asus card having a OC mode which boosted the core by 25 Hz. What i was addressing was:

while its OC preset mode (basically, guaranteed OC speed at 1317/1216) is much faster.
to which I responded that I don't see the above statement as being relevant because all the cards can be overclocked.

 

junkeymonkey

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things you got to realize -- top parts binned go to kingpin then trickled down to the rest of the line of cards - king pin 980ti was not ment to be used on air and has a air cooler on it cause they cant sell a card with out a cooler on it we all know how NVidia limits overclocking on these cards to start with bla bla bla

al this is posted over at evga forums easy to find and read eave the guy kingpin who the card is named after states these thing

the it reasons why the the water cooled were so hard to get and aftermarket block for non reference are still not around and guys are having tio mod other cards blocks themselves to work on them ..

so many get these top card just to find there hot or cant overclock well if at all with out issues anyway

all you got to do is look past the hype and start seeing these things


another thing I find funny is how all you see is how AMD cards use high power and get hot so heres 900 cards use way less power but still run as hot as any amd card ?? go figure
 
Overclocked cards use exponential amounts of power. I once saw this explained in detail using a formula but after posting the link a few times, I haven't been able to find it. The K|ngp|n is I would say designed to run on LN2 and make headlines. We see very little improvement on 7xx / 9xx series.

Anything said by a paid representative of a company has be be taken in that context. MSI, Asus and Zotac don't seem to be having any problem keeping them in stock.

I have always poo poo'd the "just buy the cheapest one, they are all the same" advice. However, in recent generations, I am seeing little (if any) variation in actual performance between the Classified, K|ngP|n and actual fps. While looking at alternate BIOS, I do see peeps able to get higher core clocks, but when they post their benchies, they gained MHz but not fps.

EVGA advertises the K|ngp|n and charges by AISC quality
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/46525/evgas-super-insane-geforce-gtx-980-ti-kingpin-cost-up-1050/index.html

80% - $1,050
76% - $1,000
74% - $900
72% - $850

Same list is on the EVGA site

I just looked at my "plain jane" non reference Asus DCIIs and the AISC quality is 77% and 80%. I remember looking at my son's MSI Gaming cards and they were in high 70s.

And I agree wholeheartedly that we are getting less and less out of these cards with each generation, but I'd add even less with water cooling. I began to notice this with the 6xx series, with 7xx series it became smaller and with the 9xxs, unless you're building for noise or aesthetics, I don't think it's worth it. Right after I completed my custom loop Asus Formula / SLI build using the Asus DCIIs, I built another system with MSI MoBo / SLI on air. I got a higher stable OC on the air cooled build than I did w/ the custom loop.

PS ... Yet another thing that I find particularly annoying is that the card OCs are stable thru every benchmark you can throw at it. And yet some games just don't seem to like any OC. I don't play BF4 but my kids do and we basically had to set up a separate OC profiles for both CPU and GPUs. Now I noticed that Witcher 3 crashes after about 2-3 hours on my (Asus GPUs) box. My son has experienced the same thing (Twin MSI 970s) and took the OC off his cards. His housemate (Twin EVGA 980 Tis ) did the same.








 

gmuser

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But it is relevant, because only SOME cards have factory OC mode - in other words, OC mode that is advertised publicly for their product, and that anyone would have basis to demand replacement if not satisfied (since they could have based their purchase decision on that value). Yes, it is question if company would have to honor such demand, or could try to weasel by "it was listed as OC", but as long as it was publicly stated in product specification, if product does not meet it, it is basis for RMA.

ASUS very clearly states those numbers in their product specification at https://www.asus.com/Graphics-Cards/STRIXGTX980TIDC3OC6GD5GAMING/specifications/
OC Mode - GPU Boost Clock : 1317 MHZ , GPU Base Clock : 1216 MHz
Gaming Mode (Default) - GPU Boost Clock : 1291 MHZ , GPU Base Clock : 1190 MHz
Some other companies also clearly state factory OC modes for their product. It is VERY different from saying "any card can be OCed", because if there was no official commitment to some OC performance in specification, you do not have basis to require RMA.

In short, ANY card that have 'factory' OC values in specification is better (and should be considered 'faster') than card that have same default value but no specific OC value in specification.

 
The factory OC is the speed it comes at out of the box which is higher than the reference speed. For example on the 970

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_970_Gaming/

Reference Speed = 1051
Factory Overclock = 1114

http://us.msi.com/product/vga/GTX-970-GAMING-4G.html#hero-specification\

Silent Mode = 1051
Gaming Mode = 1114
OC Mode = 1140

Not all companies advertise this correctly. MSI's, well at least newegg, advertises their 970 at 1140 when in fact it comes outta the box at 1114, and like the Asus also has a gaming mode and OC mode (As well as silent mode). It is not guaranteed at the OC mode, Asus and MSI both have auto over clock MoBo settings for for 4.8 and 5 Ghz ... those aren't guaranteed . They are simply presets that work if the particular CPU / GPU is capable. I have had a user denied a swap because he could not maintain a stable OC Mode.
 

gmuser

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If it is stated on official GPU specs page, they must be confident that most of their products would satisfy it, or they would have many RMA requests.
If MoBo advertise 4.8 GHz, then MoBo is expected to deliver that clock, unless they specifically state in specs that it is not guaranteed. If it fails due to CPU not being able to follow, it is another matter.

And what you call 'factory OC' (and in fact, is factory OC), they call "default gaming mode", and next step (higher) factory OC they call "OC mode". If your reasoning would apply, it means they do not guarantee even for their default 1190/1291, because that is also OC ?

It is irrelevant what they call it, what is relevant is what numbers they show on official specs. Product that show higher number modes should be considered better product. ASUS is not only one to officially put official OC mode in specs. MSI 980ti also have 1178/1279/7096 OC mode. Even Kingpin have OC mode for memory ( 7096 vs standard 7010).

In short, in order of importance:
Default mode > Offical OC mode > No offical OC




 
1. It's not what I call the factory OC it's the very definition of an non-reference card.

2. Those are the official specs, quoted right off the web site

3. RMA was denied for not being able to maintain stability in OC Mode.

 

junkeymonkey

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funny its that evga gives you a nice factory water option on just reference board cards [hybrid/hydrocopper] but these high end aftermarket nothing is offered for them there fanboys are having to mod coolers from other series cards to make then work and fit ??
easy to see at evga forums , and then like I said there guys seen all this and why the factory water cooled even though a reference card was so hard to get , out of stock / backordered / auto notify / preorder for months on end and then youi had to be Johnny on the spot to get your order in with a lot of luck

''And I agree wholeheartedly that we are getting less and less out of these cards with each generation''

if you look at the little 960 it gives more compatibility and support then any of it big brothers so you get these 700$$ cards that cant do nothing much over cranking max fps.

to my for a $700 buck card should it not have all bells and whistles over there 200 buck card ??
 

gmuser

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1. Not exactly, non-reference card is one on their own PCB, with their own cooling , even if it keep same speeds
2. Exactly, and if one product list default+official OC speed, it is better than product just listing default speed
3. RMA can be denied for many things, but question is if they would be able to defend it legaly. BTW, do you have link where ASUS (or other company from above) officially states that they deny RMA if they can not meet their official OC mode (as opposed to 'general OC')

 
CLCs on 9xx series GPUs to my eyes are a waste of time, money and effort. I guess one can get a sense of self satisfaction out of knowing say their 970 GPU runs 30C under it's maximum temp instead of the air cooled 20C. However since the VRMs and memory aren't covered by the CLC block, and it's the VRM temps or voltage that limits the overclock in the great majority of instances, I really don't see the point.

The Hydrocopper is a nice idea in concept, never quite delivered on its promise tho.



Go to http://i.imgur.com/HkEXMui.png if image not displaying

The new 9xx series I'm told uses EK instead of Swiftech ... holding judgement until I see it tested.

As for concept, I think Asus Poseidon has great idea, allowing users who may be afraid of mounting a block to start on air and move to water. It performs better than I ever thought it would.




 
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