mozzartusm
Splendid
- Sep 17, 2004
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Another vote for HP/Compaq. Ive had plenty of experience with Dell, Gateway and HP. HP has very good support and one hell of a support forum. The World Champion Unix programmer calls that forum home and he knows his stuff.
ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz
<A HREF="http://valid.x86-secret.com/records.php?PHPSESSID=792e8f49d5d9b8a4d1ad6f40ca029756" target="_new">#2 CPUZ</A>
SuperPI 25secs
ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz
XMS2 DDR2 @ 1180Mhz
<A HREF="http://valid.x86-secret.com/records.php?PHPSESSID=792e8f49d5d9b8a4d1ad6f40ca029756" target="_new">#2 CPUZ</A>
SuperPI 25secs
HansGruber
Distinguished
- Apr 28, 2005
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I really don't understand why anyone would buy Intel based server today.
You get more than double the performance with AMD dual core, but you only need same amount of licences from MS and IBM (per socket).
Also it still would consume LESS power than Intel system.
HP has some dual and quad socket systems.
DL 585 even has hotplug capable CPU's (but it's propably an overkill).
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
You get more than double the performance with AMD dual core, but you only need same amount of licences from MS and IBM (per socket).
Also it still would consume LESS power than Intel system.
HP has some dual and quad socket systems.
DL 585 even has hotplug capable CPU's (but it's propably an overkill).
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
HansGruber
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You can buy all the same services for Opteron servers as you can buy for Xeon servers.
You just have to pay for it (for Xeon and Opteron).
So i really don't understand your comment.
Can you give me an example ?
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
HansGruber
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Xeon from HP or Opteron from HP = no difference for services.
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
>*sigh* You don't think about cost do you?
?
His point is quite true. You can buy Opteron servers from HP, IBM or sun with identical service and support as Xeon servers from those companies, I really dont see your point..what cost ? A dual capable HP ProLiant DL145 starts at $1.600, exactly the same price as a comparable Xeon based DL140.
Its probably true that the cpu performance or upgradeability, etc is not what matters for the original poster, but if you have the choice, you might as well buy the better product for the same price with same service and support.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
?
His point is quite true. You can buy Opteron servers from HP, IBM or sun with identical service and support as Xeon servers from those companies, I really dont see your point..what cost ? A dual capable HP ProLiant DL145 starts at $1.600, exactly the same price as a comparable Xeon based DL140.
Its probably true that the cpu performance or upgradeability, etc is not what matters for the original poster, but if you have the choice, you might as well buy the better product for the same price with same service and support.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
>I meant BladeSystem which is really meant for enterprise,
>whoops!
Do you even know what a bladeserver is ? Surely no one is recommending he gets one for running accounting software... did you mean to say "rackserver" instead ?
>All I know is that in the lower end of servers Xeons will be
> more economical than Opterons for a small company.
certainly incorrect as such. The thing that is true, is that are arent many low end Opteron servers. in fact, pedestal based opteron servers are almost non existing from tier 1 or 2 oems, afaik only Acer is about to release one. So if he wants decent onsite support, if he needs 5 disks (which I personally doubt.. raid 1 with just 2 disks, possibly even SATA would be more than good enough and very much cheaper), he is indeed probably stuck to the Dell/Xeon world.
That said, if his accounting software is licenced per cpu, it might be interesting to compare TCOs even for higher end opteron servers (or sun/hp/boxx/.. "workstations" used as server).
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
>whoops!
Do you even know what a bladeserver is ? Surely no one is recommending he gets one for running accounting software... did you mean to say "rackserver" instead ?
>All I know is that in the lower end of servers Xeons will be
> more economical than Opterons for a small company.
certainly incorrect as such. The thing that is true, is that are arent many low end Opteron servers. in fact, pedestal based opteron servers are almost non existing from tier 1 or 2 oems, afaik only Acer is about to release one. So if he wants decent onsite support, if he needs 5 disks (which I personally doubt.. raid 1 with just 2 disks, possibly even SATA would be more than good enough and very much cheaper), he is indeed probably stuck to the Dell/Xeon world.
That said, if his accounting software is licenced per cpu, it might be interesting to compare TCOs even for higher end opteron servers (or sun/hp/boxx/.. "workstations" used as server).
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
You should design the system to your SLA (Service Level agreement).
To determin that you need to know the cost of downtime.
You are going to be running quite a few business critical system on this server.
Email, accounting software, etc.
You need to calculate, how much money you loose per day if the system is down. It can come to quite alot of money, just think of
Lost custom
Inability to invoice
Lost interest at the bank as you can't put any income through the system.
Waste of time (Salary's per day).
Then take the time it would take to rebuild the server if it goes wrong. How long will it take Dell/HP to deliver a new machine, install it and restore the database and roll forward in time, then your accountants will need to verify the data, find out if any data has been lost (database log backup is very important).
If you take this approach, you will find that your server requirements are very different, you may even want to think about clustering.
Then think about scalability. How do you applications scale. Do need more CPU on the same box to scale or can you just add further application servers (upgrade=downtime).
Only then should you think about performance
To determin that you need to know the cost of downtime.
You are going to be running quite a few business critical system on this server.
Email, accounting software, etc.
You need to calculate, how much money you loose per day if the system is down. It can come to quite alot of money, just think of
Lost custom
Inability to invoice
Lost interest at the bank as you can't put any income through the system.
Waste of time (Salary's per day).
Then take the time it would take to rebuild the server if it goes wrong. How long will it take Dell/HP to deliver a new machine, install it and restore the database and roll forward in time, then your accountants will need to verify the data, find out if any data has been lost (database log backup is very important).
If you take this approach, you will find that your server requirements are very different, you may even want to think about clustering.
Then think about scalability. How do you applications scale. Do need more CPU on the same box to scale or can you just add further application servers (upgrade=downtime).
Only then should you think about performance
>In my standards all server(big or small) should be mounted on
> 19" racks
Yeah, I agree, but that requires you have a rack in the first place. For small business (like <5 people) that need only one or 2 servers and a firewall/router, that might be overkill
>I just went to check the RRP between DL385(Opteron200) and
>DL380(Xeon DP), surprise the price difference wasn't that
>much!
Actually, the opteron is cheaper. Especially if you configure it with a single, dualcore cpu (which also could help reducing licensing costs and gives you a nice upgrade path). But either system is still fairly pricy and gives you a lot of features he may or may not need. A pedestal based ML150 is over $2.000 cheaper, or half the price when not fully loaded. too bad there is no ML150-style opteron based server
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
> 19" racks
Yeah, I agree, but that requires you have a rack in the first place. For small business (like <5 people) that need only one or 2 servers and a firewall/router, that might be overkill
>I just went to check the RRP between DL385(Opteron200) and
>DL380(Xeon DP), surprise the price difference wasn't that
>much!
Actually, the opteron is cheaper. Especially if you configure it with a single, dualcore cpu (which also could help reducing licensing costs and gives you a nice upgrade path). But either system is still fairly pricy and gives you a lot of features he may or may not need. A pedestal based ML150 is over $2.000 cheaper, or half the price when not fully loaded. too bad there is no ML150-style opteron based server
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
>...no wonder AMD has over 11% in server market share now
Its rather a "wonder" it isnt any higher actually. For the large majority of (server) apps, the opteron as a cpu/platofrm is simply the best choice, no matter how you look at it: price, performance, features, power, licencing cost, upgradeability.. the only thing holding it back is oem support. Big names are backing it yes, but the product portfolio is still sorely compared to xeon offerings, especially in the low end and the very high end (>4/8 cpus)
The above example illustrates this nicely; the thread starter would 99% certainly be better served with a single dualcore opteron than a 2x Xeon based system, but given the (un)available products, he'll likely end up buying a xeon nevertheless. If oems would support Opteron like they did Xeon, I see no reason opterons would not outsell current xeons.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
Its rather a "wonder" it isnt any higher actually. For the large majority of (server) apps, the opteron as a cpu/platofrm is simply the best choice, no matter how you look at it: price, performance, features, power, licencing cost, upgradeability.. the only thing holding it back is oem support. Big names are backing it yes, but the product portfolio is still sorely compared to xeon offerings, especially in the low end and the very high end (>4/8 cpus)
The above example illustrates this nicely; the thread starter would 99% certainly be better served with a single dualcore opteron than a 2x Xeon based system, but given the (un)available products, he'll likely end up buying a xeon nevertheless. If oems would support Opteron like they did Xeon, I see no reason opterons would not outsell current xeons.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
HansGruber
Distinguished
- Apr 28, 2005
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I found a <A HREF="http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/75073/hp-proliant-dl385.html" target="_new">HP ProLiant DL385</A> review.
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
<font color=red>"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
- Albert Einstein</font color=red>
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