Build Advice Some questions about my future 7800X3D new rig

[Grijander]

Hi guys. First of all, english isn't my native language, so excuse me in advance if I make some mistakes.

My current build is a 8600k, a quite old CPU that is beginning to show its age, specially considering that I play games at 1080p. At first, I though about getting a 14600k new rig. But after thinking about it, I decided that moving to a Ryzen 7 7800X3D will be a smarter move, since I'm not doing any productivity work that requires horsepower, just light tasks and work that does not require power at all. I want it mostly for gaming, so I think a 7800X3D is much better choice since it's a more efficient CPU and it provides an excellent gaming performance, on par with 13900k CPU.

So I have decided to build my PC around a 7800X3D. My questions are about certain components and how should I install them. This is the setup that I'm thinking about: https://www.wipoid.com/pcconf/1313d160b15bd/

I'm not sure about getting a 240 or 360 AIO. I suppose a 360 AIO will cool better with less noise (since the fans does not need to spin that fast). Also, as you can see, I have added 2 extra fans to mount them just below the GPU as intake, to help with the GPU cooling. The case has a bottom filter for the PSU, so the PSU will be mounted with the fan downwards, so these 2 extra fans will not be interfering with the PSU fan at all.

What do you think about the build? Should I keep the 360 AIO? Is it a good idea to add these 2 extra fans to help GPU cooling? Your suggestions are much appreciated.

 

[Phaaze88]

Should I keep the 360 AIO?

It's more for whole system cooling than the actual cpu cooling, since this cpu doesn't draw much power.

Is it a good idea to add these 2 extra fans to help GPU cooling?

Spoiler

I don't know how useful that is when the psu(body) obstructs one fan location, and the psu cables and drive cage(if used) obstruct the other location...

 

[Grijander]

It's more for whole system cooling than the actual cpu cooling, since this cpu doesn't draw much power.

Spoiler

I don't know how useful that is when the psu(body) obstructs one fan location, and the psu cables and drive cage(if used) obstruct the other location...

I suppose the 2 bottom fans can help to cool gpu, at least slightly.

So is it a good build? Would you change something?

 

[Phaaze88]

I suppose the 2 bottom fans can help to cool gpu, at least slightly.

So is it a good build? Would you change something?

It looks ok. I don't see any glaring problems with it.
The 2 fans, because they might not do anything that the gpu fans can't already do. Save 30 quid now and spend it later.
Reasons:
-few run their fans at 100%, and a fan's performance does not scale linearly.
-the 40 series already has very good coolers on them. Try not to chase diminishing returns for better cooling.
-the closer a fan is to an obstacle, the harder their job is. Combine that with the first point = not much air to bring in/out.
-the bottom area will collect dust faster, prompting more frequent cleaning. The PCIe guards and side mesh panel are not filtered either.

 

[Grijander]

It looks ok. I don't see any glaring problems with it.
The 2 fans, because they might not do anything that the gpu fans can't already do. Save 30 quid now and spend it later.
Reasons:
-few run their fans at 100%, and a fan's performance does not scale linearly.
-the 40 series already has very good coolers on them. Try not to chase diminishing returns for better cooling.
-the closer a fan is to an obstacle, the harder their job is. Combine that with the first point = not much air to bring in/out.
-the bottom area will collect dust faster, prompting more frequent cleaning. The PCIe guards and side mesh panel are not filtered either.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will think about these 2 bottom fans. Maybe you are right, so I can save 30 EUR.

 

[Grijander]

@Phaaze88 another question... do you know if a BIOS update is still needed? I have read that that motherboard had some issues when 7800X3D launched back in april, regarding the EXPO mode. Apparently that mode caused overvoltage to CPU, but that was solved via BIOS update in april. I do not know if the current motherboards are already sold with that update done.

 

[Order 66]

@Phaaze88 another question... do you know if a BIOS update is needed? I have read that that motherboard had some issues when 7800X3D launched back in april, regarding the EXPO mode. Apparently that mode caused overvoltage to CPU, but that was solved via BIOS update in april. I do not know if the current motherboards are already sold with that update done.

I would update just to be safe.

 

[Grijander]

I would update just to be safe.

Do I need to download the bios and update via USB? Or can I do it directly using the BIOS software?

 

[Order 66]

You would probably need to update via usb.

 

[Phaaze88]

I do not know if the current motherboards are already sold with that update done.

A roll of the dice, that one is.
The person filling your order might grab an older board from stock, they might grab a newer one... maybe they sold out all the older ones and only have newer boards left. No real way to know until you get it and check the bios version.


Some boards let you update direct from bios, others have the option to download and save the file to your PC, and it can be updated from that file.

 

[Grijander]

A roll of the dice, that one is.
The person filling your order might grab an older board from stock, they might grab a newer one... maybe they sold out all the older ones and only have newer boards left. No real way to know until you get it and check the bios version.


Some boards let you update direct from bios, others have the option to download and save the file to your PC, and it can be updated from that file.

It is an Asus Rog Strix B650-A Wifi. Can it be directly updated from BIOS?

 

[Phaaze88]

It is an Asus Rog Strix B650-A Wifi. Can it be directly updated from BIOS?

You can just go inside bios and see what options are presented.

 

[Grijander]

You can just go inside bios and see what options are presented.

Well I have not bought the pc yet. That’s why I was asking.

 

[Why_Me]

It is an Asus Rog Strix B650-A Wifi. Can it be directly updated from BIOS?

Yes. ASUS EZ Flash 3

ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI | Motherboards | ROG United States

The ROG Strix B650-A Gaming WiFi is a future-forward platform with 12 + 2 power stages, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, and next-gen PCIe® 5.0 storage capabilities. It is equipped with three M.2 slots with heatsinks, a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 port, WiFi 6E, AI Networking, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation, and Aura...

rog.asus.com

 

[Grijander]

Yes. ASUS EZ Flash 3

ROG STRIX B650-A GAMING WIFI | Motherboards | ROG United States

The ROG Strix B650-A Gaming WiFi is a future-forward platform with 12 + 2 power stages, hyperspeed DDR5 memory, and next-gen PCIe® 5.0 storage capabilities. It is equipped with three M.2 slots with heatsinks, a USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 port, WiFi 6E, AI Networking, Two-Way AI Noise Cancelation, and Aura...

rog.asus.com

Nice, it seems I can even flash the bios through internet from the BIOS menu!

Thanks for the info.

 

[geofelt]

A motherboard will come with the latest bios available at the time of manufacture.
Likely, you will not need to update the bios.
Common recommendations are to not update a bios once you are running well.
But, the consequences of a failed bios flash on a new build are small.
I update to current right away on a new build.

As a newcomer to amd from intel, there are some differences.

Ryzen is very particular about ram compatibility.
Verify that the ram kit you selected is supported by your mobo/cpu combo.
Either via the motherboard ram qvl list or the g.skil support app.
Ram compatibility is one of the common reasons for early bios updates.

You selected a very nice case for air cooling.
I would prefer air vs. aio.
Modern processors and motherboards turbo up to the max cpu temperature for maximum performance.
They run hot but are built to do so.
AIO coolers will fail in time. Think 5 years and they need to be replaced.
Noctua NH-D15s is as good as it gets.
It is deemed good by noctua for your 7800X3d.

AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D | CPU Compatibility | Noctua Compatibility Centre

Series: Raphael-X, Socket: AM5

ncc.noctua.at

ditto for the 14600K

750w is ok. Seasonic prime is very good.
But, in the future, you may want to upgrade to a much stronger graphics card.
To that end, 850w or even more might be appropriate.

I am not so hot for the X3d processors.
They seem to me to be a one trick pony.
The base versions are still good for gaming but do much better for everyday tasks.
I would have looked at the 14600K.

Single thread performance is what makes a pc quick.
Run the cpu-Z bench on your 8600K.
You should see a rating like 653:

CPU-Z Benchmark for Intel Core i5-8600K (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - September 2024

valid.x86.fr

That is similar to the 7800x3d:

CPU-Z Benchmark for AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D (1T) - CPU-Z VALIDATOR

Best CPU performance - 64-bit - October 2023

valid.x86.fr

(14600k early results show a rating of 868.

How much do you value gaming only ??

 

[Grijander]

Hi guys, another question.

Should I buy a x670e motherboard instead of a b650 one? Some people have recommended me to buy an Asus Tuf gaming x670e MB instead of the Rog Strix b650-a, but I am not sure about this change.

@geofelt yeah, the main use of the PC will be gaming. I do not do any task related to video editing or anything that requires strong single-core performance. So a 7800x3d is completely fine for me.

I have some doubts about getting the Deepcool AIO. Some people recommends me to get a peerless assassin or noctua nh-15 instead, but I do not like how these massive coolers leave so little clearance for ram (in many cases they block the slots). That’s why I prefer a good quality AIO. Should I expect good durability from that Deepcool AIO?

And the last question… the build would feature 2 intake 160mm frontal fans, 3 exhaust 120mm fans on top (radiator) and 1 exhaust 140mm fan on the back. Will it produce a good airflow?

 

[Phaaze88]

Should I buy a x670e motherboard instead of a b650 one? Some people have recommended me to buy an Asus Tuf gaming x670e MB instead of the Rog Strix b650-a, but I am not sure about this change.

Motherboard selection SHOULD be about the set of features they offer, that the user will actually use.
I've noticed a pattern that users don't pick a board based on feature set. It's more of a personal choice, like a PC case is.
I guess I can't blame 'em when it comes to things like:
-number of usb ports
-wifi(y/n)
-bluetooth(y/n)
-number of onboard fan/pump headers
-rgb or argb headers
-U.2 header(y/n)
-number of PCI/E slots
-number of M.2 slots
-Q-code display
-dual bios button
-bios flashback button
-thunderbolt port
etc... of course, the more you want, the higher the cost.

I have some doubts about getting the Deepcool AIO. Some people recommends me to get a peerless assassin or noctua nh-15 instead, but I do not like how these massive coolers leave so little clearance for ram (in many cases they block the slots). That’s why I prefer a good quality AIO. Should I expect good durability from that Deepcool AIO?

Durability? Is someone going to pound or kick the cooler?
They all fail eventually. The motor spins and spins, until one day, it doesn't - or can't - and then it's e-waste. Can't really say how long they last, since experience varies so much. I'd advise to have a secondary cooler on hand, preferably air. [Can't get away from 'em...]
Main upsides of AIOs:
-the fans on dual and triple models act as extra case fans, so for cases that come with a couple to no fans, and you don't have any spares on hand, this is good.
-compatibility and cooling in cases that can't support a tower air cooler, because downdraft air coolers aren't great these days.
-they require no additional maintenance compared to the custom loops that they're imitating.
-they have a higher fluid volume in them compared to air coolers, allowing for a brute force method of cooling. [Still needs air to do its job properly though.]

For air cooler front fans that sit over the ram, you can raise it a little, but it does increase the total height of the cooler.
There are also models that don't obstruct the ram at all. To name a few:
-NH-D15S [This one doesn't get much love, even though older reviews have shown that the lack of a fan doesn't change much.]
-Thermalright Silver Soul 135
-Scythe FUMA 3
-Deepcool Assassin IV

And the last question… the build would feature 2 intake 160mm frontal fans, 3 exhaust 120mm fans on top (radiator) and 1 exhaust 140mm fan on the back. Will it produce a good airflow?

Generally, yes.

 

[Grijander]

Motherboard selection SHOULD be about the set of features they offer, that the user will actually use.
I've noticed a pattern that users don't pick a board based on feature set. It's more of a personal choice, like a PC case is.
I guess I can't blame 'em when it comes to things like:
-number of usb ports
-wifi(y/n)
-bluetooth(y/n)
-number of onboard fan/pump headers
-rgb or argb headers
-U.2 header(y/n)
-number of PCI/E slots
-number of M.2 slots
-Q-code display
-dual bios button
-bios flashback button
-thunderbolt port
etc... of course, the more you want, the higher the cost.


Durability? Is someone going to pound or kick the cooler?
They all fail eventually. The motor spins and spins, until one day, it doesn't - or can't - and then it's e-waste. Can't really say how long they last, since experience varies so much. I'd advise to have a secondary cooler on hand, preferably air. [Can't get away from 'em...]
Main upsides of AIOs:
-the fans on dual and triple models act as extra case fans, so for cases that come with a couple to no fans, and you don't have any spares on hand, this is good.
-compatibility and cooling in cases that can't support a tower air cooler, because downdraft air coolers aren't great these days.
-they require no additional maintenance compared to the custom loops that they're imitating.
-they have a higher fluid volume in them compared to air coolers, allowing for a brute force method of cooling. [Still needs air to do its job properly though.]

For air cooler front fans that sit over the ram, you can raise it a little, but it does increase the total height of the cooler.
There are also models that don't obstruct the ram at all. To name a few:
-NH-D15S [This one doesn't get much love, even though older reviews have shown that the lack of a fan doesn't change much.]
-Thermalright Silver Soul 135
-Scythe FUMA 3
-Deepcool Assassin IV


Generally, yes.

THanks for your elaborated answer.
Yeah, maybe "durablity" wasn't the best word to apply there. English isn't my native language, so maybe I do not always choose the right words for the things I try to explain.

About the features of the Strix b650-A gaming, I think it has everything I need. It has wifi (can be useful in exceptional circumstances), bluetooth, and ROG SupremeFX 7.1 (I like listen to rock, heavy and metal music, so this is a plus for me)... and honestly, the PCI Express 4.0 isn't a problem to me. When PCI 5.0 becomes a real and mandatory things, probably the rig will be quite outdated and I will buy a whole new computer. I'm not the type of guy that always a new GPU every year. That RTX 4070 will serve me for quite a long time. And probably even RTX 6000 series will perfectly run on PCI 4.0 with a negligible loss in performance. So I think I do not need a X670 motherboard.

About the airflow... my concern is that maybe there's too much exhaust and too little intake, although the 2 intake fans are quite big (160mm). That's why I'm thinking about adding two extra intake fans below the GPU. I have seen several builds using this PC case that adds these bottom intake fans. So I suppose it's not a bad idea.

My current PC has a Enermax Liqmax II 120 AIO, and still works perfectly (I bought it in 2018). It's very likely I will buy the Deepcool LS720 se (a much better AIO that the one installed on my current PC, by the way). Deepcool is a reputable brand and probably I will be fine for a long time.

About the nvme... I'm not sure what brand should I buy. I want a 2 TB Nvme, but I'm not sure about what brand is the most reliable.

 

[Phaaze88]

ROG SupremeFX 7.1

Sneaky Asus... It's just a variant of Realtek audio codec, renamed and with added cost to you.
When I read about that a few years ago, I couldn't help giggling while shaking my head...

About the airflow... my concern is that maybe there's too much exhaust and too little intake, although the 2 intake fans are quite big (160mm). That's why I'm thinking about adding two extra intake fans below the GPU. I have seen several builds using this PC case that adds these bottom intake fans. So I suppose it's not a bad idea.

If you do not personally test different configs, there will be endless speculation with no concrete evidence. There are other factors at play that influence airflow, besides the fan size and how many are at a specific place in the case.
Comparing where and how dust builds up with a specific fan setup also requires testing over time.
If one doesn't run multiple tests, then the general setup is usually fine to fall on, save for some really oddball cases.

 

[Grijander]

Sneaky Asus... It's just a variant of Realtek audio codec, renamed and with added cost to you.
When I read about that a few years ago, I couldn't help giggling while shaking my head...


If you do not personally test different configs, there will be endless speculation with no concrete evidence. There are other factors at play that influence airflow, besides the fan size and how many are at a specific place in the case.
Comparing where and how dust builds up with a specific fan setup also requires testing over time.
If one doesn't run multiple tests, then the general setup is usually fine to fall on, save for some really oddball cases.

So what do you think about adding these 2 bottom intake fans?
Sorry for all these questions. I just want to be sure of buying the best possible configuration with my budget. Still not sure about the Deepcool LS 720 SE... I mean, I know the Peerless Assassin is a very good cooler... but man, I hate how these coolers just blocks everything and overlaps RAM slots.

 

[Phaaze88]

So what do you think about adding these 2 bottom intake fans?

But I already told you what I thought about that idea..? No one's stopping you from putting fans there if desired.

Still not sure about the Deepcool LS 720 SE... I mean, I know the Peerless Assassin is a very good cooler... but man, I hate how these coolers just blocks everything and overlaps RAM slots.

There are air coolers that don't do that, as I posted earlier. If you still desire the AIO, then hey, go for it.
Both types of coolers have their pros and cons, you're going to win & lose some regardless which you go with.

Besides, today's air coolers have better hardware support than gpu coolers, while being LIGHTER.
Even the large ones struggle to hit the 1500g mark, whereas many gpu coolers passed that up, and some are sagging to boot.

 

[Grijander]

But I already told you what I thought about that idea..? No one's stopping you from putting fans there if desired.


There are air coolers that don't do that, as I posted earlier. If you still desire the AIO, then hey, go for it.
Both types of coolers have their pros and cons, you're going to win & lose some regardless which you go with.

Besides, today's air coolers have better hardware support than gpu coolers, while being LIGHTER.
Even the large ones struggle to hit the 1500g mark, whereas many gpu coolers passed that up, and some are sagging to boot.

Ok, thank you for your time. I will take some days to think about the build before pummeling my wallet.