Speculative Talk: AMD K10

[gOJDO]

As with Nehalem, I want to get views on AMD's next architecture, K10 and I ask for non-fanboyism. Some sources say it is dead, while others say it is on track for release. What I know about K10 is that it will bring Multi-Core, possibly 8-Cores or more, DDR3/DDR4, use HyperTransport 3.0 or 4.0, probably use Z-RAM or another form of Static RAM for L2 Cache and may include L3 Cache. I also heard AMD is shooting for 10GHz Operation, including additional registers, possibly SSE4, and looking for a 2007-2009 release date. What you guys think?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

Well Mike, there are some things that all of us can guess and some things that are allready proved.
10GHz sounds SF to me as long as this manifacturing process is used. SOI offers less power consumation, but will not offer operating freqfency at 10GHz on 65nm or 45nm either. Adding unreasonable number of stages of the pipes is proved(P4 Netburst) as unsucessfull for performance(less instructions per clock are achieved). Today parallel processing at lower clock is forced instead of sequentional at higher, as more efficient for the overall performance race.
4 core chips are in the baseline of AMD and they are expected to apear in the 65nm SOI after H2 2K7. SOI might offer implementation of Z-RAM and that could be expected in K10 too. I guess lower freqfency than 4GHz while on 65nm SOI.
SSE4 are not only registers, instructions(not much effective on the reviewed Conroe) are also included. I guess there would be no problems for AMD to implement them in the current K8 and future K10.
No DDR3 before 2009, its too much expencive and there will be no need of that much memory bandwidth until then. I guess they will optimize the current architecture for high latency memory and will find DDR2 usefull for their chips.
I think there will be no L3 Cache. The integrated memory controler and the DDR RAM are exactly L3 for the K8. If Z-RAM technolgy succeed, with builtin memory controler there is no reason for another level of cache.
We shall see more HTT links and with better badnwidth(more bits width and on higher freq) for sure.

 

[FITCamaro]

No ones made the point that maybe they mean 10GHz combined. 4 x 2.5GHz cores. Its a long shot but possible.

Gigehertz do not exist. It is a measure of operating frequency and therefore cannot be added together such as something like processor cache amounts.

Adding operating frequencies together would be like saying you can travel at 220 mp/h when in fact you just have two vehicles capable of traveling at 110 mp/h.

I know in reality it doesn't add. I was talking more like they market it to the average consumer like that. Look at all the BS companies push on people successfully without telling them the details.

 

[Grimmy]

@10Ghz... will we be able to hear it? :lol:

<just a silly madeup statment>

Here at AInMtelD, we don't make hurricanes.
We sell CPUs that cause global warming, to make stronger hurricanes.

We didn't invent the deficit,
Instead, our CPU will crash the market to make the deficit rise.

Here at AInMtelD, we don't make allot of your problems,
We make allot of your problems you have... bigger.

 

[FITCamaro]

Here you can use a nice engine analogy.
Although the saying goes "there any no subsitute for cubes", you'll find the most powerfull engines aren't the ones with the most cubes, but the ones with the most revs (look at F1 engines, small 3.5l but rev upto 15000rpm).
A big 7litre is going be heavy and would not suite a lightweight racing car, great for trucks where you need the low down torque, but you'd just spin the wheels in a lightweight car.

Yes and those F1 engines also only last one race and barely at that (assuming the car doesn't break down). The most powerful street engines are bigger ones. Thats like saying a 540 cubic inch big block that'll rev to 10,000 rpm and makes 4000 hp is the most powerful car engine out there and can be put in your average Mustang. Or the 1600 hp Ecotecs out there.

And the new Corvette Z06 engine is a 7.0L 427 all-aluminum small block and weighs only about 300 pounds.

 

[MadModMike]

MadModMike

I need your expert advice. I want to upgrade my existing AGP motherboard to a PCIe to run some of the later video cards but not sure how far to go with the upgrade. I have a FX-53 processor currently and would like to continue using it unless you feel dual core is just that much better. I would like to overclock the processor but not sure how well a FX-53 will perform in that area. I know it is fully unlocked but never attempted to take it past the normal clock speed. I know, so please don't jump on me too bad. The thing is I don't really feel like putting a ton of money into this upgrade right now with so many changes coming from both Intel and AMD. I'm a gamer and really just want a really good PCIe video card. I have come to trust you over several weeks of reading your posts and would like you take on it. Thanks. :lol:

Sure I can help.

I'm going to assume it's a Socket 939 FX-53. If you don't already have a good motherboard picked out, and you want to save a buck or 2, grab the ASUS A8N-SLI. The board isn't the best overclocker, but since you're just beginning and probably don't wish to push your CPU too far, that will get you to 2.6-2.8GHz easily. And it and will recognize your FX-53 without a hitch, but if you do purchase it, make sure to upgrade the Chipset and BIOS. Alot of people complain that board sucks but after I upgraded to the latest BIOS and Chipset Driver, it's been smoothe as silk.

For a good GPU, I recommend the 7900GT. If price is a concern, or $300-$350 is too much for you, I recommend the 6800GS. The 6800GS beats every other 6800 series cards (I have them all) and it's only $175. If you wish to go ATI, I recommend the x800GTO2. I do that because it can be unlocked to an x850XT and perform above the 6800GS, plus it's about $150.

I also recommend, since you wish to overclock, you get an aftermarket heatsink and fan. I recommend the Thermaltake VENUS 12. That cooler I have on 2 Opteron 64's @ 2.4GHz and keeps them less than 30c idle and less than 40c load. I hope this helped, if you need more help, PM me or drop a post here.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[stOrmy]

First, thanks for your advice and taking the time to answer. I just can't see putting a lot of money into a current socket 939's with it being so near to AM2, Conroe, etc. I am alittle surpised to see the FX-53 overclocking so well. I suppose all that extra money was worth something in the end. By the way, sorry to get off topic guys. Again, thanks.

 

[MadModMike]

First, thanks for your advice and taking the time to answer. I just can't see putting a lot of money into a current socket 939's with it being so near to AM2, Conroe, etc. I am alittle surpised to see the FX-53 overclocking so well. I suppose all that extra money was worth something in the end. By the way, sorry to get off topic guys. Again, thanks.

No problem. If I were you, I would wait until AM2 came out, than the prices for Socket 939 stuff should drop. I wouldn't buy an AM2 when it comes out, due to high DDR2 and Motherboard costs when it first arrives. I would grab a high-end (DFI LanParty nF4) Socket 939 Motherboard, and a 4200+ or 4400+, and overclock it to mad. A 4400+ or 4200+ @ 2.8GHz will be a beast of a machine and should run less than $500 - $650 for the mobo, CPU, RAM, and cooler when AM2 comes out and that system will last for quite some time. But, it's up to you, your FX-53 is still a nice chip and you have many choices for what next computer you build/buy. If you need anything more, PM me or drop a post here.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[arussell]

stormy, that FX-53 is more than enough CPU for todays and tomorrows games. No need to overclock it either unless your just looking for e-peen growth. Game are getting more and more GPU based taking many tasks away from the CPU. So if I were you, id get a pci-e and get the best video card you can buy, which since your upgrading from AGP, the best you can buy will be a vast improvement. I myself from bought a 7800gs AGP card mainly because im looking to be held over for a year then build a new rig.