Discussion Staggered v. Unstaggered?

Wick422

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So I was completing a tech call for someone and they insisted that their RAM NEEDED to be UNstaggered in order to boot properly. It was 2-8 GB sticks of Corsair Vengence DDR3 1600 on an MSI Z97-D65 Gaming Motherboard. She got this information from the guy who designed her rig. I had never heard of this as I've always been told that 2 sticks in a motherboard with 4 slots are ALWAYS staggered to take advantage of the dual-channel architecture on a motherboard. Eventually, I ended up speaking directly with this guy and he was telling me that on her setup it was required to be either in 1/2 or 3/4 configuration. This was perplexing to me as I'd NEVER heard of anything of the sort nor should any particular configuration of the RAM prevent the computer from at least POSTing. He also insisted that all modern high-end motherboards require this configuration. He was VERY insistent on this.

Now granted I haven't built a gaming rig in about 5 years, have I been misinformed or has something changed in the industry engineering-wise that I missed regarding this? Because to me, this sounds like the board has something wrong with it. But perhaps I'm mistaken.

I did eventually fix the issues plaguing the machine and sure enough, it would only post in the 3/4 configuration. I didn't try the 1/2 configuration it was in originally though.

What say you forums? Is there any reason RAM would NEED to be configured in a 1/2 or 3/4 vs. the traditional 1/3 or 2/4 configuration? If so why? If not how do I explain to this guy that this is not how this is supposed to work?
 

Wick422

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RAM sticks need to be in the slots that the motherboard manufacturer states.
No more, no less.

Whatever it says in the motherboard user manual is what it is.
No matter what anyone 'says'.
I would tend to agree. This boards manual certainly states that staggered is the optimum configuration however it wouldn't boot in that configuration. It did however in the 3/4 and that's what the customer wanted so I wasn't going to argue with them. Especially since I was freaking out that I may have caused some bent pins when changing out their cooler that was installed pretty terribly. They were blaming me but I was certain I was careful. I just wanted the call to be over. So I just did it and it worked and that was that. But I'm still reeling over it. Especially this RAM config argument.
 

Wick422

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It will absolutely work, in any of the slots.
However, the user might be giving up dual channel performance. 10-15% slower performance.

If the RAM sticks do not work in the recommended configuration, there are other issues.


That was my thoughts exactly and I wasn't about to troubleshoot a bad board beyond what I "may" have damaged inadvertently. They insisted that this board required it so I didn't argue. I'm with you, my fellow Airman. I would like to see what some others might say though too. It should be interesting. This guy is really convinced that all boards require unstaggered RAM nowadays. I hate the thought that there's someone out there building 3-4k rigs and inserting the RAM unstaggered. Ugh.
 

Wick422

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off of the top of my head, some AM3+, AM3, AM2+, AM2, bit older but very popular stuff
Thanks. Could you give me any specific boards you're familiar with and point me to their manuals stating such? I really am trying to investigate this with an open mind but I'm running into brick walls left and right. The board in question States in the manual that for dual channel optimal config is staggered but would not POST in that config. Just wondering what would make one so insistent that it HAS to be configured in single channel mode and claim that many or even all modern mobos require this config. Thanks again.
 
Thanks. Could you give me any specific boards you're familiar with and point me to their manuals stating such? I really am trying to investigate this with an open mind but I'm running into brick walls left and right. The board in question States in the manual that for dual channel optimal config is staggered but would not POST in that config. Just wondering what would make one so insistent that it HAS to be configured in single channel mode and claim that many or even all modern mobos require this config. Thanks again.

I was working on a 785G chipset last week that had one. It was msi or gigabyte. I could google them for you...
 

Wick422

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Here's one of the boards that my techs were working last week with the DIMMS wired as such.

https://us.msi.com/Motherboard/support/785GE53#down-manual
Excellent thanks. I wonder if this was an MSI thing for a while which maybe caused some who were fierce MSI advocates to make the assumption that this was standard on mobos of the time and going forward. Would you say that it would be a safe or unsafe assumption to make this config a rule of thumb? Also would you agree that this configuration is rather unorthodoxed?
 
Excellent thanks. I wonder if this was an MSI thing for a while which maybe caused some who were fierce MSI advocates to make the assumption that this was standard on mobos of the time and going forward. Would you say that it would be a safe or unsafe assumption to make this config a rule of thumb? Also would you agree that this configuration is rather unorthodoxed?

No, I've seen it on every brand, but not on DDR4. Not sure what is going on with your MSI board, but it could be anything from a broken solder joint, bad trace, or bad pin. Did you check the motherboard manual?
 

Wick422

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No, I've seen it on every brand, but not on DDR4. Not sure what is going on with your MSI board, but it could be anything from a broken solder joint, bad trace, or bad pin. Did you check the motherboard manual?
Yeah there were a couple bent pins that I straightened but one was a little problematic. It might be that. But that means the pin was bent before I got in there. They were satisfied (edit*they demanded it being in the 3/4) with it being in the 3/4 config. So I left it. The manual states they should be staggered for dual channel config. I was like whatever. It was one of those nightmare scenarios where I neglected to look at everything closely and document before doing everything. Routine cooler replacement, but had to take out the cpu cuz the guy who initially installed it got paste everywhere. I was surprised it was working at all. Almost had to buy a new rig for them. I was freaking out. They thought I bent the pins on purpose. :'( Never even crossed my mind.
 
I usually won't accept any work once I see bent or broken pins. All promises go out the window at that point. AMD processors at least are easy to straighten with a mechanical pencil, but god forbid there's bad pins on an Intel board. Your situation sucks because you already started working on it. I'd be scouring forums for a used replacement board if you can't get it to work.
 

Wick422

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I usually won't accept any work once I see bent or broken pins. All promises go out the window at that point. AMD processors at least are easy to straighten with a mechanical pencil, but god forbid there's bad pins on an Intel board. Your situation sucks because you already started working on it. I'd be scouring forums for a used replacement board if you can't get it to work.
Oh, the work is done. I was able to get it to finally post and boot up fine but you can definitely tell that the single channel configuration is hindering performance. I tweaked the pins and reset the CMOS. Was still only able to boot in the single channel config. But like I said that was what they were demanding so it's not my problem anymore. Like I said, it was a nightmare scenario.