Steam machine thoughts (discussion)

[TallestJon96]

I've never posted an open discussion thread here before, but here we go:

Valve has said they will be showing a wide variety of hardware at GDC 2015 this year, including VR and steam machines, VR is kinda cool, but I want to discuss steam machines. Supposedly they have finalized the design of the controller, and will be updating the line of machines that will be launched.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/valve-announces-steamvr-hardware-gdc,28617.html

Steam machines were announced about two years ago for 2014, and then delayed because of work on the controller until 2015. If the controller is done, then it is plausible that steam machines will be released at FDC, or perhaps e3 (?).

After the delay, lots of people said the initiative was dead, but I think it releasing now is better, because the hardware is more developed and has more to offer compared to current consoles (more on that later). Personally, as a PC gamer with a GTX 970 and a 1080p144hz monitor, I don't feel the need to play on a couch with a controller and an inferior gaming television. However, PC Master Race is not the target, avid console gamers are.

In my circle of friends I have some people who play little to no games, I have many people who only have a Xbox 360/PS3, I have some friends who have current consoles, and I have some friend who play on legit gaming rigs. I argue that Steam machines are intended for those who were among the first to buy new consoles, but don't do a lot of PC games.

To this audience, a well priced, appropriately powerful steam machine offers good value. They can play from a huge catalog of games, can play on higher graphical settings, can play with PC friends, and can play the few PC exclusives that would be great on a TV (Vanishing of Ethan Carter comes to mind). There are also steam sales, but honestly this generation with free games every month and some sales is catching up.

As I said, I don't need a steam machine, but I know some who have shown interest, and I would love to play with them.

From a hardware perspective, things can get tricky. Steam machines must be a good value, with low enough costs and at least ps4 level performance. The Alienware alpha has released as a sort of sudo-steam machine, and currently cost $500 for a 750 ti, a 2.9 ghz i3, 4gb ram and 500gb HDD. This system matches ps4 graphics more or less, but costs $100 more. There are other upgrades, for $600 you get 8gb and a 1tb HDD, but the cost is a bit high for what you get.

I think the sweat spot for steam machines will be $500-$600 with a higher clocked i3, a GTX 960, 8gb ram, and 1tb HDD. Of coarse, some could pay more, for say a 970, an i5 or an SSD. And that's tge beauty of steam machines, you can pay for more.

Power efficiency updates such as maxwell and haswell have done a lot to make steam machines viable. The Alienware alpha is more powerful than an Xbox one and on par with the ps4, but even when over clocked and upgraded draws less power and is quieter than both, and while being smaller than a ps4!

I believe that steam machines will be most successful a few years down the road, when the ps4 cannot truly compete graphically. As technology continues to progress, steam machines will offer better and better value, while the regular consoles stay the same. Two years from now a steam machine could cost $400 and have twice the GPU power of ps4. And what about 4k? Consoles struggle with. 1080p, let alone something higher. With the rise of 4k tvs, consoles will sag behind, but 4k ready machines could very well fill the gap. Additionally, in the second half of this generation games will release for PC that are better there than on console, similarly to how BF3 was vastly superior on PC. If a steam machine plays the newest games better than consoles, and at 1080p+, many will take notice.

Steam machines face several large obstacles though. First, steam OS does not support all games, as it is Linux based. On top of that, origin is currently not integrated, nor are things like minecraft of League of Legends. Hopefully over time the newest games will be released for steamOS in day one, but as of right now it's not happening.

Next is the controller issue. Most PC games don't support aim assist, certain games absolutely need mouse and key board (Civilization for example), and in competitive multiplayer, nice will mob the flour with a controller. Valves new steam controller is supposed to help, but even Valve might not be able to fix this.

Last is price/adoption rate. It's unrealistic to expect steam machines to outsell either console, especially at higher prices. As it stands now, you can get an Xbox one with 2-3 decent games for $350 and a ps4 with one game for $400. These consoles are subsidized by Sony/MS, and stream machines will have a hard time on cost, though steamOS is free, and should reduce costs some. Perhaps Valve could offer bundles (every valve game with a steam machine would be fantastic), or a credit in their store.

I hope steam machines do well. For those who want them, they wouled be a step up from consoles, they would expand the PC community, and provide more competition. I don't expect millions in the first year, but I'm optimistic, and think by the end of this generation they will be the third platform for living room games, even if they are the smallest.

If you read my novel to this point, thanks for your time. What are your thoughts? Am I dead wrong? Do steam machines have a future, or are they a failed experiment.

Thanks

 

[Karadjgne]

Modern consoles have 1 big advantage over their predecessors, versatility. Wii has kid friendly net access, ps4 has blue-ray, Xbox is a movie machine etc, so they are more useful to a family/person as a whole, without spending extra for more machines to clutter up the space beneath your big screen. And then there is the pc, which can do everything all of the consoles put together can do, it's upgradable with no ceiling, graphics are stronger, everything is changeable, tailorable to the user. Perfect. Now throw in the steam machine. Not as versatile as some of the consoles, not nearly as powerful as a full pc, limited ceilings because of case size, barely upgradable. Really? Unless the end-user price tag is lower than an average console, I doubt it will be worth the effort as a standard decent gaming pc is gonna blow it away in every category other than price.

 

[TallestJon96]

I have heard that argument before about steam machines being inferior PCs. In some respect this is true, PCs are more powerful and versatile. However, steam machines have something regular PCs don't: accessibility and ease of use.

For many, the hassle and cost of PC gaming is too much. they have to update drivers, find ideal settings, avoid viruses, etc. We of the PCI master race are used to this, but it's a huge variate to entry for some. Steam Machines and SteamOS get rid of a lot of this hassle and appeal to the familiarity of a couch, a tv, and a controller. From PC gaming's perspective, steam machines are pared back, but to a console gamer they are a step up in versatility and graphical capability. They get all this without the hassle, although admittedly the cost varied is still there at least for now. Although for many a $500 steam machine is still way cheaper than a $400 PC equivalent, $100 of mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc, and $150 for a 1080p monitor.

The situation is similar to that of tablets vs smartphones and laptops. When the first tablets came out everyone laughed. "What can it do that is new?" "It's worse than my laptop and bigger than my phone!" But tablets offer all the benefits of a phone, portability, touch screen interfaces, comfortable use, etc. and added larger screen area, more power, etc. it's a similar situation with steam machines vs consoles and PCs. "What's new from steam machines?" "It's worse than a PC and more expensive than a console!" But they offer all the benefits of a console, ease of use, couches and controllers, playing on a tv, etc. and add more power and versatility of PCs.

It's not a perfect comparison, and I don't want or need a tablet or steam machine, but they both fill a market between two products, even if it's a small market.

 

[Karadjgne]

It's a conundrum. For sure. Sitting on the couch, lookin at the pc sitting next to the big screen, with my wireless mouse and keyboard.... Hmm steam what? And here's the real gimmick. Who has the most need for a steam machine? Gamers. Hmm kinda odd, the only way you could be a gamer is? Oh yes, gaming on a pc with its super complicated steam shortcut on the desktop.

Don't get me wrong, it'll sell just fine, same as the Sega Genesis was popular. Yeah.

 

[arvinzd]

In my opinion, steam machine,is an alternative.
To me it's not really a direct competitor to ps4 nor xbox one,in this current state.the targeted audience will be different.

Steam machine is only for someone who knows about graphics, and they who know ps4 won't be adequate for smooth gaming in full hd tv, not to mention 4k tvs.

A good steam machines that differs themselves from console peasants,will cost you more,
there are simply no way around it,though it may only need an addition of 100$.it's basically for pc enthusiasts.not fot console gamers



These kinda audience is definitely not a casual console gamers.they are the ones who wants more graphics quality which is not casual audience at all.

Moreover a 750 ti which have 1300~gflops didn't offer more performance than ps4 1800~gflops with optimizations the devs do.
Which defeat the purpose to let people experience pc master race on couch. (u know 60 fps ultra full hd, even 4k)


There are even more drawbacks for steam machine

1.there are simply not enough games in steamos,
those games are still to come, not yet ready.
2.most steam/pc games exclusive are not meant to be played by controllers,like total war,.
The devs don't create pc games minding that the players will play it on the couch on a big tv.

And of course not using steam controllers too

They mostly aim for keyboard-mouse pc gamers

3.people still don't know what to expect from steamos games.steamos still feel very unfamiliar to the audience even to pc gamers who usually use keyboard and mouse.


In this current state steam machine will not even do a good job as alternative,as competitor? No chance.

Valve still have an awful work to do before the steam machines can be seen as alternative.

Advertising,familiarizing people to steam and pc and steamos,their steam os it self as a media,steam controllers in practice,optimizations in linux(amd and intel gpu are not even yet supported).
How they sell it,physical vendors, branding, quality control of various brands of steam machine,team up with devs,cause it's steamos Linux based not pc.

But i can see the potential and the beauty of steam machines.
-4k tvs needs 4k gaming supported systems,this is where steam machine will shine
-the freedom to choose various of steam machine configuration based on what they want,whether they just want console like or pc master race like experience.it's up to them.
-freedom of controllers, you can use from range of $5 controllers to razer like controllers.
U can even play it using dualshock 2,3,and 4
U can use xbox 360,one controllers.
-upgradability,the configurations will be kept updated to the latest graphics card at a cheap price,this is why really,steam machine won't be competitor,it's the price/performance that still beaten by ps4 in 2015

But in the future? I don't see why not.since console cycle is 5-7 years,(although sony most likely will shorten the cycle)

- You can even built one by urself,heck using the pc u alreay got,will do too,
-Flexibility, for example if it's not so troubling,u can use steam machine doubles as office pc,
Like the the modified alienware alpha ui which can do as windows and steamos,at a good price of configurations

Even for powerful creative gaming company like valve,would find it very difficult to promote steam machine

 

[Bossyfins]

SteamOS/Steambox won't be big in general, but SteamLink will. Steam Link can let you stream 1080p 60 fps if I am not mistaken. This would probably Valve's biggest sale.

 

[arvinzd]

Yeah,i personally seriously considered steam link as a must buy device for playing on the couch.for it only cost $50, with "optional" 50$ steam controller

But questions remain unanswered, do steam link only supports steam controller? I already have dualshock 4,and x360 controller.and i wanna use my own dualshock 4 with its touchpad to navigate.

And would Valve make steam link at least capable of streaming 4k@30fps?? Since the significant increasing 4k tvs this year.

 

[Bossyfins]

At this time, I highly doubt it. If you watched Linus's Wan Show, he covered it. I heard him saying that games won't be viable, but like 4k netflix etc would be

 

[TallestJon96]

When I first made this thread, GDC hadn't happened yet, steam link hadn't been announced, the new controller hadn't been shown. NVidia's console hadn't come out (I know not a steam machines, but a console alternative, so close enough), and the updated steam machines hadn't been shown. Here are my thoughts.

Steam Link seems awesome. As I stated before, I have a pc, so a steam machines isn't all that appealing a purchase. But steam link lets me play downstairs and gives me what looks like a good controller for $100! Great for playing with friends, or cinematic single player games. One small issue is going to be no Origin games (battlefield), although I think there is a work around for that (add it to your steam library to steam).

Next, the controller looks pretty good. No d-pad, who knows why, but it looks comfortable, and the pressure pads and buttons on the back/side are actually innovative, especially compared to the unimaginative ps4/xbone remotes.

The Nvidia console looks decidedly "meh". One thing no one talks about is that it supports NVidia gamestream, which means it should work like steam Link, and 4k playback is cool for the few that have 4k TVs. The controller looks crappy though, but maybe you can use alternate ones.

The updated steam machines look better, but honestly, unless Valve bundles games or in store credit, most of them are a poor value compared to ps4. I was hoping for something like an i3 or fx-6300 with a gtx 960 or r9 280 and 8gb ram, 1tb hdd for maybe $600-$700.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FzyT3C
$598
or

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2VYzsY
$511

add another $100 for the controller and some profit, and you get $600-$700. A few stick out as a good value. Digital storm came close:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353430/

Only difference is that its a pentium, which kinda sucks, and its $700. Not bad, especially if they bundle games or reduce prices over time. Wish it was at least an i3 though. Zotac has one that will cost $1000 with gtx 970 m (slightly better than a 960) and an unknown (probably mobile) SKYLAKE processor that will be out in November, and looks pretty sleek, Alienware has their same old alpha, maybe with updated gpu or cpu, but still only 4gb ram to start fro $450. Those three seem like the best for the value, and aren't bad, but the cpu's and ram could use some improving. All together, they are a good start, but some more value (maybe game bundles) would be great.

Like arvinzd said, steamOS is still an unknown quantity, but in theory it should have less CPU overhead, which might explain all the mobile chips and Pentiums we are seeing. Fortunately, Valve announced a bunch of games that are coming to steamOS, like shadow of mordor and the Witcher 3.

Overall, the whole thing seems to be going fine, but prices are a bit high, and adoption might be a bit low. I really expect this to take off 2-3 years from now, when the mobile chips being used are more competitive, more games come to steamOS, and prices come down. Three years from now, I think you''ll be able to get a steam machine that has double the GPU power of the ps4, with similar other specs for around $500 (maybe even an SSD?), and by that point 4k adoption and more demanding games will make the PS4 look kinda old. If you have a choice between a $500 steam machine, and a $300 ps4, but the steam machine is twice as powerful, at least some people will go for the steam machine.

Steam machines will never appeal to the casuals. They are intended for enthusiasts who also prefer to have a console experience. People who buy new consoles in the first year fall into this category. I hope valve succeeds, I won't be buying one soon, but more competition is fantastic, and some people will love them. They provide a great middle ground for consumers, and I hope they become the third major competitor for third party, living room games.