Stick with stock fans or switch out? (Phanteks Enthoo Pro)

[Guest]

Build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/thzzrH

I have 2 SP120's as a pull exhaust configuration for my H100i,
1 140mm stock fan (Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK) as exhaust on the back of the case
2 Phanteks PH-F140SP_BK as intake on the front

Should I switch the fans on the rear and/or front with something like the AF140 for a red/black build (I know the MOBO isn't red/black but you don't really notice it)

Also wondering if I should put 1 or 2 fans on the bottom serving as intake

Thanks in advance

 

[JackNaylorPE]

The Phanteks F120/140SPs are the best fans on the market and literally blow the SP120s/AF140s away .... pun intended . They even top the Noctua AF14 and 15

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html

Phanteks F140s - 1st place
Noctua NF-A14 FLX - 2nd place
Noctua NF-A15 PWM - 3rd place
Corsair AF120 Quiet - 8th place
Corsair AF120 Performance - 9th place
Corsair SP120 Quiet - 16th place

The win over the AF15 was impressive ... 3C better at 300 rpm slower

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenteks_f140/3.htm

Other notes:

1. Radiator fans ALWAYS Blow air in...as per the H100i's written instructions. You wanna cool that CPU with ambient air or pre-heated case air ?

2. You want to avoid balancing intake and exhaust as it removes one of the system primary cooling mechanisms, your rear grille. As you have it now (3 exhausts / 2 intakes) you are using that rear grille to suck dust into your case.

Yes, we all remember 8th grade earth science where we learned that hot air rises .... that is true...when there are no mechanical aids. Gravity works to but doesn't overcome a rocket ... Inertia works too, a body at rest will tend to stay at rest but a car has an engine and a bike has your feet and they don't stay still.

To correct your situation, I would put the fans ina sper Corsair's written instructions...this will drop the air cooling your CPU by at least 5C ... with 4 in and 1 out, it will also restore proper functionality to your case's rear grille and eliminate the dust issue. And yes extra air from the bottom will help.... prolly won't change temps much but will allow you to run all the fans a bit slower.

Installing the radiator fans as per the instructions.

 

[norseman4]

With that case you could probably just go with the 200mm intake in the case already and remove the stand-alone exhaust in the rear. This should easily provide enough flowing air for the build. You can always add the removed fan back as in intake later if the temps aren't to your liking.

Edit:
Ass per the Radiator as intake or exhaust, mine is going to be exhaust. My decision was slightly based upon a previous Tom's question:
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1780740/solved-make-h100i-exhaust-intake-top.html

 

[Guest]

The Phanteks F120/140SPs are the best fans on the market and literally blow the SP120s/AF140s away .... pun intended . They even top the Noctua AF14 and 15

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1345-page7.html

Phanteks F140s - 1st place
Noctua NF-A14 FLX - 2nd place
Noctua NF-A15 PWM - 3rd place
Corsair AF120 Quiet - 8th place
Corsair AF120 Performance - 9th place
Corsair SP120 Quiet - 16th place

The win over the AF15 was impressive ... 3C better at 300 rpm slower

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/phenteks_f140/3.htm

Other notes:

1. Radiator fans ALWAYS Blow air in...as per the H100i's written instructions. You wanna cool that CPU with ambient air or pre-heated case air ?

2. You want to avoid balancing intake and exhaust as it removes one of the system primary cooling mechanisms, your rear grille. As you have it now (3 exhausts / 2 intakes) you are using that rear grille to suck dust into your case.

Yes, we all remember 8th grade earth science where we learned that hot air rises .... that is true...when there are no mechanical aids. Gravity works to but doesn't overcome a rocket ... Inertia works too, a body at rest will tend to stay at rest but a car has an engine and a bike has your feet and they don't stay still.

To correct your situation, I would put the fans ina sper Corsair's written instructions...this will drop the air cooling your CPU by at least 5C ... with 4 in and 1 out, it will also restore proper functionality to your case's rear grille and eliminate the dust issue. And yes extra air from the bottom will help.... prolly won't change temps much but will allow you to run all the fans a bit slower.

Installing the radiator fans as per the instructions.

For #1, I see what your saying the only problem about having the radiator bring air in is it will probably mess up the direction of the airflow. Also having a pull exhaust is bringing hot air out instead of bring hot air into the case because of the air going through the radiator

For #2, How is an exhaust fan bringing dust in?

I have not ordered any of my parts yet except for my case, so I do not know any of these "written instructions". Can you tell me the solution in a more basic answer like 1 exhaust in rear, 2 intake in front, etc?

I'm not an expert so excuse me for my lack of experience and knowledge

 

[norseman4]

If you have exhaust airflow that is greater than the intake airflow (Negative air pressure) then air is coming in from everywhere that air can. Most of those openings are not filtered, hence, dust gets in the system.

Exhaust less than intake (Positive air pressure) has air escaping from every place that it can, but the intake air is, hopefully, behind a dust filter. This keeps the system clean.

Your initial setup would have had 2 intakes slightly restricted by drive cages, 1 unrestricted exhaust fan and 2 restricted exhaust fans through the radiator. (Removing the lower drive bay if you can, no matter the solution, would improve airflow)

 

[synphul]

With the enthoo pro, unless you set aside the psu cover and choose not to use it mounting fans in the bottom of the case won't do a whole lot of good. The psu cover extend the entire length of most any gpu and that's about the only component that would benefit from a bottom fan unless you had a radiator mounted in the bottom. The phanteks 140mm fans you're using are pretty good. They've got nearly identical specs to the noctua redux fans with almost identical static pressure and sound levels at the same speed (1200rpm).

My theory on airflow for the cooler is this, air inside the case shouldn't be much warmer than air outside the case so long as there's adequate airflow in the first place. If your case air is significantly warmer than ambient air outside the case, the air inside the case is stagnating rather than flowing. Assuming you have two intake fans capable of moving 82cfm at max speed, let's say even 60cfm to factor in a speed reduced fan and restriction from the front filter causing lowered efficiency. Two fans pulling in 60cfm is 120cfm. With the exhaust fans removing at least that much air, you've got 120cfm of airflow moving throughout the case. The case volume, worst case scenario (without the motherboard tray, psu cover and components reducing interior volume) is 2.44 cubic feet. Reduce the overall airflow even further to account for any other factors reducing efficiency and pretend you're only exchanging 100cfm - cubic feet of air a minute. By those calculations, the internal air in the case should be exchanging 40 times every minute or once every 1.5 seconds. Doubtful much residual heat should have a chance to build up.

While in theory it sounds like having 'negative' vs 'positive' pressure (which is already a faulty description since a non sealed container is incapable of 'pressure') would be bad because it will be sucking in all this dust through every nook and cranny including the vent holes in the i/o slot covers and the drilled out vent holes next to them as well as above the rear exhaust fan - it just doesn't happen.

I wanted to see how dusty my case would get so I let it go for over a month. By month 2 I started to see a couple tiny particles of dust in the case on the hdd and psu cover and I live in a rural area with a gravel driveway, dirt around much of the property, no sidewalks etc. My fan configuration is the stock 200mm fan as intake, 140mm stock fan as exhaust and 2 140mm noctua redux fans as top exhaust. All fans controlled by a fan controller and turned down but what could easily be called 'negative' airflow.

When I took apart my case, I found the dust - in the filters. A very slight layer of some dust on the psu cover and hdd, and this was after 2mo in unfavorable conditions. Normally I wouldn't go that long without cleaning out the case but I wanted to see just how effective the filtering was especially with people being concerned dust would be infiltrating around the front filter.

All in all, you could play around with turning your radiator around where it's drawing air from outside the case (which will pull all the heat into the case from the cpu likely resulting in a slight rise in gpu temps). However I would stick with the fans and setup you currently have. Any over engineering attempts to squeeze the last bit of thermal efficiency out of the case would probably be less effective than simply reducing the ambient room temps using fans or air conditioner. Those corsair fans won't provide any better cooling than what you're already getting. Can't even say I'd recommend them for looks since hardly any of the fans except maybe the rear exhaust are visible either from the front or through the side window. Your sp120's on the radiator may be visible since they're lowered from the top of the case by the thickness of the radiator.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

For #1, I see what your saying the only problem about having the radiator bring air in is it will probably mess up the direction of the airflow. Also having a pull exhaust is bringing hot air out instead of bring hot air into the case because of the air going through the radiator

For #2, How is an exhaust fan bringing dust in?

I have not ordered any of my parts yet except for my case, so I do not know any of these "written instructions". Can you tell me the solution in a more basic answer like 1 exhaust in rear, 2 intake in front, etc?

I'm not an expert so excuse me for my lack of experience and knowledge

[/quotemsg]

1. The air coming in thru the radiator will increase about 3-5 C over ambient on a custom loop, much, much less on the H100i. It is then immediately exhausted thru the rear grills .... it never gets down to your other components because it's pushed out of the case. I have tested this in the Enthoo Luxe and Primo cases using 6 temperature probes and a fog machine. I have a Pro here also but the Luxe is basically same case with extra fans and bling. Putting the fog machine on top of the case, the fog is blown out thru the rear; doesn't even get down to GFX card level.

Think about your car radiator ... does the fan blow out or in ? It brings outside cool air in, across the radiator where it immediately exits the bottom of the engine compartment. The 5C temperature rise of the air across the radiator is insignificant.

Pulling hot air thru the radiator cuts its effectiveness by 2/3. Think about it

Room Temperature = 23C
Case Temperate = 28C
Coolant temperature = 33C

The effectiveness of your radiator depends on Delta T ...

As exhaust, the 33c coolant is going thru the radiator it's seeing an air temperature gradient of say 28C at the bottom and 33 C at the top or an average of 30.5C ... average delta T is just 2.5C
Asintake, the 33c coolant is going thru the radiator it's seeing an air temperature gradient of say 23C at the top and 28C at the bottom or an average of 25.5C ... average delta T is 7.5C making it 3 times more effective.

2. The entire rear of the case is one giant open grille. You have two fans blowing air in and three fans blowing out.... so to "balance" air must come into the case from somewhere....that somewhere is that open grille on the back of the case

The entire area below the fan, other than the GFX card slot is open space and that's where dust somes in.

3. You can d/l all the manuals for each piece of equipment at any time. You should do this so as to be well infoirmed the day the boxes arrive

http://www.corsair.com/~/media/Corsair/download-files/manuals/49-000175_rev_AB_H100i_QSG_web.pdf

Page 2, box 1, 1st paragraph

Attache the radiator and fans as shown. For best cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air intake into your case.

Look at any water cooling guide and you will see the same statement.

If you haven't bought your stuff I would strongly recommend dropping the H100i and it's 60 dbA noise level in favor of the Swiftech H240-X. It's 7C cooler, 20% as loud, has a reservoir, has copper rads (100i is aluminum), has no corrosion issues (100i uses mixed metals) and if you want to add water blocks to your GFX cards someday you have that option because it has a 1.0+ gpm high head pump as compared to the h100i's 0.11 gpm pump .

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/42047-swiftech-h240-x-open-loop-280mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

 

[JackNaylorPE]

With the enthoo pro, unless you set aside the psu cover and choose not to use it mounting fans in the bottom of the case won't do a whole lot of good. The psu cover extend the entire length of most any gpu and that's about the only component that would benefit from a bottom fan unless you had a radiator mounted in the bottom. The phanteks 140mm fans you're using are pretty good. They've got nearly identical specs to the noctua redux fans with almost identical static pressure and sound levels at the same speed (1200rpm).
.

Having done extensive testing with 6 temperature probes and a fog machine, I can attest the adding the bottom two fans is definitely a worthwhile addition with the PSU cover in place, especially with lower cage removed. The PSU won't benefit in any way from these fans however. It simply sucks outside air in from the bottom and every cfm of it gets shoved out the rear, there's no way to augment the PSU's cooling with the extra case fans.

OTOH, the two intake fans under the HD cages, add more air flow to the case, As you said, It all comes down to air in versus air out ... more air into to a sealed box means more air out and faster turnover. Fog machine testing shows these fans work quite well in this role.

As for advertised specs they are quite meaningless as the marketing types get quite inventive in how they present data.

The Cougar could be advertised as 70 cfm / 0.85 SP
The AP15 could be advertised as 58 cfm / 0.80 SP

So the Cougar could be advertised as the better fan right ?.... more air flow, more SP. But wrong, and why only actual testing should be used for determining relative performance.

In the "real world", the Typhoons deliver 4o cfm to the Cougar's 35 cfm. In the real world, the Phanteks top Nocs best fan by 3C while running 300 rpm slower.

 

[Guest]

1. The air coming in thru the radiator will increase about 3-5 C over ambient on a custom loop, much, much less on the H100i. It is then immediately exhausted thru the rear grills .... it never gets down to your other components because it's pushed out of the case. I have tested this in the Enthoo Luxe and Primo cases using 6 temperature probes and a fog machine. I have a Pro here also but the Luxe is basically same case with extra fans and bling. Putting the fog machine on top of the case, the fog is blown out thru the rear; doesn't even get down to GFX card level.

Think about your car radiator ... does the fan blow out or in ? It brings outside cool air in, across the radiator where it immediately exits the bottom of the engine compartment. The 5C temperature rise of the air across the radiator is insignificant.

Pulling hot air thru the radiator cuts its effectiveness by 2/3. Think about it

Room Temperature = 23C
Case Temperate = 28C
Coolant temperature = 33C

The effectiveness of your radiator depends on Delta T ...

As exhaust, the 33c coolant is going thru the radiator it's seeing an air temperature gradient of say 28C at the bottom and 33 C at the top or an average of 30.5C ... average delta T is just 2.5C
Asintake, the 33c coolant is going thru the radiator it's seeing an air temperature gradient of say 23C at the top and 28C at the bottom or an average of 25.5C ... average delta T is 7.5C making it 3 times more effective.

2. The entire rear of the case is one giant open grille. You have two fans blowing air in and three fans blowing out.... so to "balance" air must come into the case from somewhere....that somewhere is that open grille on the back of the case

The entire area below the fan, other than the GFX card slot is open space and that's where dust somes in.

3. You can d/l all the manuals for each piece of equipment at any time. You should do this so as to be well infoirmed the day the boxes arrive

http://www.corsair.com/~/media/Corsair/download-files/manuals/49-000175_rev_AB_H100i_QSG_web.pdf

Page 2, box 1, 1st paragraph

Attache the radiator and fans as shown. For best cooling performance, we recommend mounting the fans as an air intake into your case.

Look at any water cooling guide and you will see the same statement.

If you haven't bought your stuff I would strongly recommend dropping the H100i and it's 60 dbA noise level in favor of the Swiftech H240-X. It's 7C cooler, 20% as loud, has a reservoir, has copper rads (100i is aluminum), has no corrosion issues (100i uses mixed metals) and if you want to add water blocks to your GFX cards someday you have that option because it has a 1.0+ gpm high head pump as compared to the h100i's 0.11 gpm pump .

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/42047-swiftech-h240-x-open-loop-280mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

[/quotemsg]
It looks like a good cooler but I dont know much about open loop systems If i do get can i just set it up like a closed loop?

 

[JackNaylorPE]

It is exactly the same as a CLC and installs exactly the same way. The hightechlegion site explains this in detail but I will give you th4 "cliff notes" version

1. The H240-X it is a closed loop cooler just like the H100i in that it's is a radiator, pump and water block pre-assembled and filled with coolant at the factory. However, it is easier to install than the H100i as you will see when you read the reviews below.

2. One of the main differences is that the quality of the components differs substantially .... the Swifech uses their top tier custom loop components as opposed to cheaper knockoffs. If you bought each part separately, it would run about $240.

a) The pump on the Swiftech delivers 1.0+ gpm at high head versus the 0.11 gpm you'll get on CLCs like the H100i
b) The pump on the Swiftech is mounted on the radiator as opposed to the H100i which has it on the CPU resulting in the pump's vibration and heat being transferred to the CPU.
c) The radiator is all copper which has better heat transfer capabilities than the aluminum used on the H100i and most other CLCs
d) The Swiftech uses all copper components which reduces the potential for galvanic corrosion that exists when you mix copper and aluminum in the same loop. No doubt they use some type of inhibitor in the coolant but the effectiveness of such decrease over time.
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/
e) The Swiftech has a reservoir

3. The other significant difference is that the CLCs are "closed loop forever". I call the Swiftech H2x0-X series OLCs because though the come outta the box as a CLC, you can simply cut the tube, or unhook the tubes, and add water blocks for your MoBo, GFX cards, extra radiators, etc any time you want to down the road.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/40870-swiftech-h220-x-open-loop-240mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

4. The H240-X outperforms any 240 / 280mm CLCs, even 360 (3 x 120mm fans) CLCs, and does it while producing about 20% of the noise.

You should read these reviews in detail but I will include some quotes below:

H220-X review (2 x 120mm fans)
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/40870-swiftech-h220-x-open-loop-240mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

Many looking to delve into the world of liquid cooling start out with a unit that is ready-to-go right out of the box, simply because the idea of setting up a loop can be a little daunting. However, with a CLC you are limited to only what it is, and only the performance it can deliver as assembled. With that in mind, the H220X makes infinitely more sense as a starting point into liquid cooling. It is ready to go out of the box and requires no maintenance, but it is also fully expandable when you are ready to take the next step. Even if you aren’t looking to take the next step, the H220X outperforms every CLC on the market, and does it at more than 20 dB quieter. Plus, it actually looks like an open loop cooler, simply because it is one.

While the H220X is an obvious choice for the novice, it also has some incredible benefits for the enthusiast looking to do a smaller loop. When you break it down, the H220X is a collection of excellent components that simply happen to come in one box. .... The MCP30 pump has a head pressure of over 2 meters, with over 1GPM flow and PWM control, making it a perfect choice for a 3-4 component loop.....

Installation of the H220X was very easy, probably the easiest liquid cooler I have ever done. A huge part of this is thanks to the use of the Apogee XL block, which is a flagship top tier block and has a mounting system fitting of that stature. I had noted just how easy the install was when I reviewed the block alone, and comparing it to the Asetek/CoolIt/etc. kits, it is absolutely a world better. The radiator/pump/reservoir assembly go in simply with fan screws to your desired location in the case. The PWM splitter is as easy as it gets, and takes absolutely all of the guesswork out of the wiring setup.

In terms of performance, well….we could simply leave it at the fact that the H220X is simply the best performing out-of-the-box cooler you can buy today. Period. I.....What more can you say? We put the best out of the box solutions up against the H220X, and the H220X walked away a clear winner and did so with absolutely astonishing performance to noise. With all of this performance the H220X never topped 40 dB at full speed.

.....The result of this redesign makes the H220X the best performing cooler that is install ready right out of the box. There is not a 240mm CLC or air cooler that can beat it, and it does it at 20+ dB quieter than the competing CLCs. To sum it up; the H220X offers better performance, lower noise, better aesthetics, flawless design and build, better components and the option of expandability when compared to a CLC. Putting it gently, choosing any CLC over the H220X would be doing yourself a huge disservice.

Then the H240-X came out and topped it
H220-X review (2 x 120mm fans)

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/42047-swiftech-h240-x-open-loop-280mm-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=3

The individual components of the H240-X look far more like a shopping list for a high quality small~mid-size loop than something one would pull already assembled out of a box. It begins with Swiftech’s flagship Apogee XL CPU block, which is among the finest available on the market, and took top performance honors in our mainstream block comparisons. The radiator is built from Swiftech’s tried and true 240QP, featuring copper/brass construction and low restriction 12 fpi optimized for low noise cooling. The MCP-30 pump is capable of more than 1 gpm flow rates with enough head pressure to easily accommodate additional radiators and blocks. A small reservoir with bleed port is permanently mounted to the radiator and all is tied together with black 3/8” x 5/8” tubing.....

And the performance….I expected the comparison graphs to look a bit absurd in this review, but even I was a bit surprised at just how far in front of the comparison units the H240-X stood. This wasn’t a collection of “also-rans” we compared the H240-X to, these are top performing CLC and air coolers available on the market today and the H240-X flat out embarrassed them in every aspect. The overall max performance was a full five degrees cooler than the nearest comparison unit not manufactured by Swiftech, and that unit used a 360mm radiator and came in nearly 10 dB louder. When we ran our low noise tests the increased passive capabilities of the larger copper/brass radiator really took hold, and the H240-X put up noise/performance levels unlike anything we have ever tested out of a box. As I said earlier, the H240-X is a top quality small loop that happens to be pre-assembled, and that is exactly what it performs and sounds like.

I had stated in my review that the H220-X makes CLCs a non-factor, and the H240-X follows that pattern, but putting even more possibilities on the table. For the novice or CPU only user, the H240-X is simply the best performing cooler you can buy that is ready for install out of the box, and it accomplishes this with incredible quiet. For those looking to expand, the 240mm radiator will handle most GPU additions, while the pump is ready to take on more additions as you see fit. For years, consumers have been excited about the possibility of jumping into liquid cooling. Many held off for fear of complicated setups or expenses, or found themselves with loud CLCs offering mediocre performance. With the X Series, Swiftech has gift wrapped a custom loop, assembled it and delivered it at an astonishingly low price point. In other words, with the H220-X and H240-X, Swiftech is delivering the real liquid cooling performance that those making the jump have craved but haven't gotten, while giving you all of the convenience of a CLC. Whether you are making your initial foray into liquid cooling, are looking for an upgrade from CLC or are an experienced user doing a small loop, the Swiftech X Series should be planted firmly at the top of your “must have” list, and the H240-X is the biggest, baddest member of the series. The H220-X and H240-X are game changers, plain and simple, and are the biggest advance in cooling that we have seen in years.

 

[Guest]

ok thanks I think I'm also gonna add a 140mm fan on the bottom as an intake to solve the negative air pressure issue