Question still having thermal issues

P0tluck94

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Nov 22, 2021
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its me again, im still having issues with the cpu temps when the pc isnt even doing tasks (example: monitors off for the day/night only thing running is hwinfo) my pc is a bran new build and its to the point i get discouraged to even use it cause im afraid to mess it up as i spend a lot of money for this thing
asus rog strike b550 gaming wifi ll
5800x3d
32 gigs mushkin 3600 cl 16 ram
asus ko 3060ti
arctic freezer 2 360 aio (exhaust)
4 lian li infinity fans 3 intake front 1 exhaust rear)
thermaltake 850 gold gf3 psu
nzxt h7 flow case
all mushkin nvmes

i have ran cinebenchR23 it gets up to 85-87 degrees on 2 passes of the test but the pc has gotten up to that temp while not even doing anything and i have no idea if maybe its a bad reading in hwinfo, if it is actually that temp and why it gets that hot not even in stress test ,it only gets to 72-75 while playing games, what could be causing the pc to get hot when im not even on it ? i have updates paused for windows but that shouldnt cause the temp to get that hot , i dont have anything else running , i have $3k into this thing and im scared to use it .

before i get off the pc i will restart it , make sure theres nothing running , start up hwinfo and come back 5-6 hours later, most of the time the highest temp is okay (65-70, would still like it cooler) but today i came back and the highest was 87 in the red and i have noooo idea how to check it , whats causing it. i have sleep and hybernate off so i know the fans arent cutting off nor is the pump
 
The 3D stacked design in your CPU is the main thing that makes the chip run hot, since 3D stacked design isn't as good in cooling as conventional design is.

That being said, until you don't reach 90C, you'll be fine. At 90C, your chip will thermal throttle. Also, you can not expect the same "cool/low" temps from your high-end Ryzen chip as you would get from e.g Core i5/Ryzen 5.

Here's further reading about your chip and it's thermals,
link: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-review/3

All-in-all, you have 2 choices:
* accept the fact that your CPU is hot running and until 90C isn't reached, be happy with thermals.
* replace the CPU with less heat producing one.
 
The 3D stacked design in your CPU is the main thing that makes the chip run hot, since 3D stacked design isn't as good in cooling as conventional design is.

That being said, until you don't reach 90C, you'll be fine. At 90C, your chip will thermal throttle. Also, you can not expect the same "cool/low" temps from your high-end Ryzen chip as you would get from e.g Core i5/Ryzen 5.

Here's further reading about your chip and it's thermals,
link: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-review/3

All-in-all, you have 2 choices:
* accept the fact that your CPU is hot running and until 90C isn't reached, be happy with thermals.
* replace the CPU with less heat producing one.
what my concern is , its getting to that temp without even doing any tasks , it runs cooler when im actively on the pc than it does at idle and i have a top of the line aio, i just dont know why it gets that hot while idle, it didnt even reach 87 degrees running CB23
 
i just dont know why it gets that hot while idle

Run your pump and rad fans at 100% at all times. Sure, it may be noisy but this is the best you can do, in terms of temps.

As far as why hotter on idle than on CB23, that is difficult to answer. Might want to look into CPU utilization.

But with latest high-end CPUs, running close to or at thermal throttle levels, is the new norm. For example 13th gen Core i7 and i9 run at easy 80-90C while with i9-13900K, it's normal for CPU to run at 95C. So, there's that as well.
 
Run your pump and rad fans at 100% at all times. Sure, it may be noisy but this is the best you can do, in terms of temps.

As far as why hotter on idle than on CB23, that is difficult to answer. Might want to look into CPU utilization.

But with latest high-end CPUs, running close to or at thermal throttle levels, is the new norm. For example 13th gen Core i7 and i9 run at easy 80-90C while with i9-13900K, it's normal for CPU to run at 95C. So, there's that as well.
So you're saying it's normal to run at that even at idle? The cpu only hits around 72-74 under a gaming load, 85-86 on 2 back to back passes of cinebench R23

I had just woken up for my day, I left hwinfo on while i slept cause of it running warm at idle In the past so i like monitoring it and I woke up to it had hit 87° While I slept, i have updates paused but am update shouldn't peg temps like that I wouldn't think, I didn't look at utilization or acting but the cpu temps unfortunately but I can see if it'll do it again or close as i don't want it to do it again at idle lol.

I do need to adjust the aio fan curves but this aio is a bit confusing as it has 3 fans on the aio and 1 fan on the cold plate so im not sure how to adjust it but it is lower than the case fan curves , I can take a picture from my phone if that would help, but not to get to personal I'm a stroke survivor and I'm petrified of breaking something , I saved almost 1 year to have this built.
 
Run your pump and rad fans at 100% at all times. Sure, it may be noisy but this is the best you can do, in terms of temps.

As far as why hotter on idle than on CB23, that is difficult to answer. Might want to look into CPU utilization.

But with latest high-end CPUs, running close to or at thermal throttle levels, is the new norm. For example 13th gen Core i7 and i9 run at easy 80-90C while with i9-13900K, it's normal for CPU to run at 95C. So, there's that as well.
I'm assuming the cpu fan setting is the small fan on the cold plate and the aio fans are on one of the 3 channels that are all the same fan curves, I guess I'd just go through each one until i start increasing the aio fans? The wires are hard to trace to the hub and the cable management is amazing so i don't want to mess that up lol
View: https://imgur.com/a/ZnhpV2L
 
So you're saying it's normal to run at that even at idle?
Well, what other choice you have?

Yeah, the new norm of high-end CPUs running very hot is hard to adjust, but this, at current date, is reality. With high-end CPUs, those days are past where CPU idled around ambient and under load, went up to 60-70C.

Like i said, anything below 90C on your Ryzen chip is good. Sure, 60C is better than 80C but with that powerhouse of a CPU, you won't be seeing low temps. Unless using cryogenic cooling (e.g LN2).

I do need to adjust the aio fan curves but this aio is a bit confusing as it has 3 fans on the aio and 1 fan on the cold plate so im not sure how to adjust it

External fan on the pump, as far as i can tell, can't be adjusted. But rad fans can, and i suggest that you run those at 100% at all times.

I saved almost 1 year to have this built.

Any particular reason why you went with 5800X3D?

I guess I'd just go through each one until i start increasing the aio fans?
Trial-and-error method does work.

As far as fan curve goes, Arctic has it well shown in the online manual;
link: https://support.arctic.de/pwm-settings

Scroll down until you see "Recommended fan curve:" after-which pick the "Performance" tab to see the fan curve.
 
Well, what other choice you have?

Yeah, the new norm of high-end CPUs running very hot is hard to adjust, but this, at current date, is reality. With high-end CPUs, those days are past where CPU idled around ambient and under load, went up to 60-70C.

Like i said, anything below 90C on your Ryzen chip is good. Sure, 60C is better than 80C but with that powerhouse of a CPU, you won't be seeing low temps. Unless using cryogenic cooling (e.g LN2).



External fan on the pump, as far as i can tell, can't be adjusted. But rad fans can, and i suggest that you run those at 100% at all times.



Any particular reason why you went with 5800X3D?


Trial-and-error method does work.

As far as fan curve goes, Arctic has it well shown in the online manual;
link: https://support.arctic.de/pwm-settings

Scroll down until you see "Recommended fan curve:" after-which pick the "Performance" tab to see the fan curve.
Yikes that's loud lol in that picture should i set it to those values? 100% is really loud lol, I still don't think it should hit 87 at idle so I'd like to fix that issue instead of bandaiding it I don't have a way to take it into the shop or I'd just have them go through it, re thermal paste everything and check to see what's what causing it to do that while not under a load.

What is it I need to do to see what happens for it to boost that high to get that hot while i was sleeping? Is there something that can record/track it or no cause I'm still not convinced the cpu should run hotter than 40-50 degrees while nothing is going on. It's at 35 right now, something had to of happened for it to go that high and I don't know how to find out what it was. That's stress test temps
 
Any particular reason why you went with 5800X3D?


Trial-and-error method does work.

As far as fan curve goes, Arctic has it well shown in the online manual;
link: https://support.arctic.de/pwm-settings

Scroll down until you see "Recommended fan curve:" after-which pick the "Performance" tab to see the fan curve.

i picked the 5800x3d cause its the only good chip AMD has made, didn't want to go Intel nor am5 with the motherboard issues, also I didn't want to go ddr5, I would have saved money if I went am5 cause of promos though.
(I spent $2200 on this tower without a gpu as I already had one)

If i sit at the pc with the screens on and nothing else running and just look at temps while just idle my cpu stays at 34°-38°, when gaming my cpu never goes over 78°, when I ran OCCT it hit 80°, 85° on CBR23, but when the screens are off and nothings running after i let the monitors time out it goes to a high temp which I can't find cause the screens not on to see, its hard for me to type out and make it make sense lol.

in short the pc should stay at sub 40° like it does if I'm at the pc as i mentioned without things open but it doesn't, there's something spiking temps after the monitors timeout when they aren't suppose too, I have sleep and hibernate disabled, I need to make a video to explain it but my speech is affected from my stroke.

I set the fan curve up in bios like showed in the picture

These are the dle temps with me at the pc just watching, they should stay these numbers without me at the pc with the monitors off but they don't, there's no difference except the monitors are off and I'm not at the pc something happens after the Monitors go off that sounds the cpu temps, I thought it might be going to sleep or hibernating which would explain it but they are disabled.

View: https://imgur.com/a/S0OZgio
 
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Is there something that can record/track it or no cause I'm still not convinced the cpu should run hotter than 40-50 degrees while nothing is going on.
There are software out there that records PC activity,
further reading: https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/computer-monitoring-software/
and one additional one as well: https://www.nucleustechnologies.com/blog/keep-record-all-activity-on-computer/

something happens after the Monitors go off that sounds the cpu temps
Without any additional info, one option would be malware. E.g cryptocurrency miner that utilizes your CPU when you're AFK.
 
There are software out there that records PC activity,
further reading: https://www.timedoctor.com/blog/computer-monitoring-software/
and one additional one as well: https://www.nucleustechnologies.com/blog/keep-record-all-activity-on-computer/


Without any additional info, one option would be malware. E.g cryptocurrency miner that utilizes your CPU when you're AFK.
The pc is bran new like not even a month old but ill run malware bytes and check, I've not downloaded anything but my video games,,i don't have one drive either but I'll run it and check to see, I don't do any crypto mining either , it's just weird the pc stays cool until the screens turn off
 
Stop thinking your pc and temps is an intel. It's not. It's a Ryzen. CPU temps are taken from the hottest core at any given time, that's important.

Intel at idle cuts power in stages to all the cores simultaneously, but all cores remain active and any tasks are divided amongst the entirety of the cores. So no one core gets a high load and the hottest core barely sees a bump in temp.

Ryzen at idle cuts power in stages to all cores, then sets all cores except one as disabled. The entire load of any task is stacked on a single core. That core remains active for several seconds, then swaps out for the next core in sequence.

So only one core is registering hot, so it gets read, and since background tasks at initial startup have the highest workload, it's not uncommon for a Ryzen to show extreme temps, however, that temp only lasts a second or so before dropping as startup tasks drop off. It's a spike temp of a single core, not a constant temp of every core.

Cores are not equal. It's not uncommon, even with Intels, to see a 10°C swing between hottest running core and coldest running core under the exact same simultaneous workload. Like Prime95.

256ms after you touch the mouse or keyboard, All the cores are fully back online and active, the workload is now spread out over multiple cores, so temps of the hottest core drop.

Welcome to Ryzen behavior. If you want to see the behavior in action, open up HWInfo (sensors only and not Hwmonitor) and watch the individual cores at idle. You'll see high speeds on one core, rest at next to nothing, then @ 3 seconds later those speeds drop to the next core in line, rinse and repeat.
 
Stop thinking your pc and temps is an intel. It's not. It's a Ryzen. CPU temps are taken from the hottest core at any given time, that's important.

Intel at idle cuts power in stages to all the cores simultaneously, but all cores remain active and any tasks are divided amongst the entirety of the cores. So no one core gets a high load and the hottest core barely sees a bump in temp.

Ryzen at idle cuts power in stages to all cores, then sets all cores except one as disabled. The entire load of any task is stacked on a single core. That core remains active for several seconds, then swaps out for the next core in sequence.

So only one core is registering hot, so it gets read, and since background tasks at initial startup have the highest workload, it's not uncommon for a Ryzen to show extreme temps, however, that temp only lasts a second or so before dropping as startup tasks drop off. It's a spike temp of a single core, not a constant temp of every core.

Cores are not equal. It's not uncommon, even with Intels, to see a 10°C swing between hottest running core and coldest running core under the exact same simultaneous workload. Like Prime95.

256ms after you touch the mouse or keyboard, All the cores are fully back online and active, the workload is now spread out over multiple cores, so temps of the hottest core drop.

Welcome to Ryzen behavior. If you want to see the behavior in action, open up HWInfo (sensors only and not Hwmonitor) and watch the individual cores at idle. You'll see high speeds on one core, rest at next to nothing, then @ 3 seconds later those speeds drop to the next core in line, rinse and repeat.
I did notice that, like one will boost while others aren't and it'll go down the list, but why do they do that even if im not at the pc with the monitors timeout with nothing running in the background? I would figure the cpu wouldn't do anything cause theres nothing going on.

So the 87° degrees i saw with me not at the pc which is stress tesr temps might of been or was most likely just a second millisecond long which hwinfo picked it up and recorded it?

I'm still really confused as why a cpu would go to that degree while the pc is completely idle and just moved the most after waking up, like i Mentioned don't even hit those temps in cinebench on 2 passes unless what you mean is it for that got for a second as I had just moved the mouse which caused a high load on the one core? If that's what happened it makes me feel better and not think my sio is faulty or u have a bad cpu, I just can't wrap my head around it getting to almost 90° just be waking the monitors up but then again im not a pc guru lol

this is what the temps were today after waking the monitors up, I don't have sleep or hibernate enabled.
View: https://imgur.com/a/BEExLjs
 
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Intel and amd see things differently. Intel uses a method that uses all the cores a very little, amd just uses 1 core, but rotates it so the wear and tear is even.

Its like pushing a car. At first, it's all your effort to get the car actually rolling, but after that it's much easier. Programs are the same way, the pc has to initialize all the drivers and compinents, search out the drivers and components, get them all started, and then the program itself can start running, but once it's running the instructions to start, the searching, linking etc can stop, so there's less actual work being done with just the program running than with program and startup combined.

Lump all those 100+ processes onto a single core and the temps stack as the work stacks. Imagine 8 processes start simultaneously on an 8 core cpu. With Intel, you'd see 1 process per core, might go 3°C per process, so from 32 to 35, but 1 core might see 36, so that's the cpu temp, 36. With Ryzen, all 8 process are stacked on 1 core, so you go from 32 to 57° and 57 is the recorded temp. The remaining 7 cores are all still 32°.

Then you move the mouse, background tasks stop, all 8 cores become active, even if you apply a load, like running a program, that's then split between all 8 cores, cpu temp is 45° across the entire cpu. Even though idle register 57°. It's not the entire cpu, just 1 core.
 
Lump all those 100+ processes onto a single core and the temps stack as the work stacks. Imagine 8 processes start simultaneously on an 8 core cpu. With Intel, you'd see 1 process per core, might go 3°C per process, so from 32 to 35, but 1 core might see 36, so that's the cpu temp, 36. With Ryzen, all 8 process are stacked on 1 core, so you go from 32 to 57° and 57 is the recorded temp. The remaining 7 cores are all still 32°.

Nice explanation.

Would it be a fair statement that, for OP's build, there are so many background processes going on during idle, that when all are stacked to 1 core, they peak the temps on 1 core to almost thermal throttle levels, 87C?
 
Nice explanation.

Would it be a fair statement that, for OP's build, there are so many background processes going on during idle, that when all are stacked to 1 core, they peak the temps on 1 core to almost thermal throttle levels, 87C?
That's the whole thing im trying too figure out, I've never had a pc go that hot just from coming out of an idle state, BUT I've never had a work horse like this , all my other pcs were low end with air coolers this cpu runs hotter I understand that but 87°? This pc never got that hot in an actual stress test? It did find Come at 85° but that's 2 passes of cinebench.
 
Have you tried with the PC activity monitoring software to actually see what the PC is doing when your monitors are turned off?

Since that would show if the processes running are actually the needed ones or not.

To see which processes hog the system resources, i'm using Process Explorer,
link: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

Guide on how to understand it,
link: https://www.howtogeek.com/school/sysinternals-pro/lesson2/

Process Explorer is a great tool and it shows you all the processes running. And while it also has tray graphics, those show up to 5 mins old data. So, while great tool, it doesn't have the logging feature for your needs.
HWinfo64 does have logging feature but it won't tell you what processes were running at what time.
So, did you check out those PC activity monitoring software that i linked above?
 
Nice explanation.

Would it be a fair statement that, for OP's build, there are so many background processes going on during idle, that when all are stacked to 1 core, they peak the temps on 1 core to almost thermal throttle levels, 87C?
With a 5800X3D? It's a good possibility. At idle, all the case fans are at minimum speeds, airflow is ehh, and add to that the time it takes. A temp is reported every 256ms, might get actually read every 500-1000ms. Gets put on screen every 3 seconds or the numbers would change so fast all you'd see is the digital 88 symbols as the numbers blur together.

So in 1 second, you might see 40-50-80-50 being reported. If your software picks up on only the 2nd report, it's going to show a cpu temp of 50°C, regardless of whether it actually spiked to 80°C. If the software picks up on the 3rd report, you see a cpu temp of 80°C, when in fact that was nothing but a spike as a process initialized and the cpu is in reality somewhere closer to 50°C.

The cpu behavior didn't change, nothing was different in that one second, but 2 different software use or settings end up reporting vastly different numbers, the first makes you think all is good and not hot, the second making you think there's something terribly wrong.

Temp gets read at 256ms. That's on the cores. That heat has to travel through the silicon lid, through the Tim, through the IHS, through the paste, into the cold plate and be siphoned up the heat pipes or transfered to liquid before it's dealt with. That takes a few seconds.

So a cpu can easily spike a temp, even lasting half a second, a full second, and nothing is really done about the temp for another second or more. The cpu can literally spike or drop temps long before the cooler can affect the temps. What the cooler does isn't cool the cpu, but sets limits on what the cpu can obtain over a duration, spike temps are slightly less affected.