[SOLVED] Stingy computer guy options in the Windows 11 era...?

Isaac Zackary

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Long story short, I've always been a proponent for using hardware as long as possible. Partly because I don't like e-waste, and partly because I've helped alot of people with little means to keep their own computers running or I've even found dozens of cheap or free computers I've fixed up and given to people who couldn't afford a computer. This has been quite a blessing during the pandemic as many people could video call their loved ones who could not do so before. It's so satifying when you get an old solitary widow an old computer that just needed some RAM and an SSD to run smoothly and have her neighbors share their internet just so she can see her grandkids and she thanks you all the time.

But the huge majority of these computers don't meet the current list of requirments for W11 (no way of installing a TPM, no Direct X 12, no Secure boot). I knew that the day would come that they'd stop working, but did it have to be so soon? This has broght a lot of thoughts to my head:
  • Will Microsoft change the requirments and let these old computers keep running the latest version of Windows?
  • If people keep using their current computers, how long until important apps that they use are no longer supported on W10?
  • If people eventually can't use their W10 computers that are incompatible with W11, where should we go from here? (What's the stingiest route?) ;)
    • Will Linux have the needed apps by then and will I be able to teach people how to use it?
    • Should we start trading out for cheap Android devices since even after a version of Android gets left in the dust at least the important apps keep running for many years afterward?
    • Or will there be cheap W11 computers that I can just keep doing what I've been doing and getting cheap old computers and fixing them up for folks?
    • Or should I just ditch my current 10-year-old computer that works perfectly fine (with W10) and join the new-computer band wagon and let everyone else fend for themselves?
Decisions, decisions...

Any thoughts on what to do? Maybe there's something I'm not aware of?
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Or should I just ditch my current 10-year-old computer that works perfectly fine (with W10) and join the new-computer band wagon and let everyone else fend for themselves?
that 10 year old PC will be 15 by time win 10 ends support so It would be a good life out of any hardware. Nothing wrong with getting a new one then and maybe getting another 15 years out of it. Every version of windows ends and every 2nd one seems to have limitations on it for users.

no reason ditching it, you could still use but I wouldn't go online with it after 2025. Win 10 still works, you just don't get support. People still use XP and it stopped support years ago

Microsoft may bend and let older PC on but comes a time you can't put new windows on old PC. It happened to me with win 8
 
i might choose to stay with win10 as it currenly does everything I need, is stable and performs great. I am not a gamer so I only use PC for work and personal stuff.

i will use Win11 to test our product software in Virtual Machines mostly
 

Isaac Zackary

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My older machines are staying on W10, which will have continued support until at least Oct. 2025. And kudos to you for being generous and the area's computer guy.
That's good to know. Hey! Some of these computers are 15 years old. To get nearly 20 years out of them isn't bad really.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Or should I just ditch my current 10-year-old computer that works perfectly fine (with W10) and join the new-computer band wagon and let everyone else fend for themselves?
that 10 year old PC will be 15 by time win 10 ends support so It would be a good life out of any hardware. Nothing wrong with getting a new one then and maybe getting another 15 years out of it. Every version of windows ends and every 2nd one seems to have limitations on it for users.

no reason ditching it, you could still use but I wouldn't go online with it after 2025. Win 10 still works, you just don't get support. People still use XP and it stopped support years ago

Microsoft may bend and let older PC on but comes a time you can't put new windows on old PC. It happened to me with win 8
 

USAFRet

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Win 10 will be supported until at least 2025.

By 2024 or so, you'll be able to find an off lease or refurb laptop for ~$200-300. Fully capable of running Win 11 long into the future.
Which will completely blow away whatever they are running now.

And this is not really a new concept.
Consider a PC bought in 1997. Windows 95. Then upgraded to Win 98.
Would you still expect to be using that system in 2015, with 2015 applications and changing security models? No.
10-15-20 years from a PC is loooong.

Technology evolves.
 

punkncat

Dignified
Ambassador
Probably a good time to start learning about freeware OS flavors.

Up and until Microsoft does what it is ACTUALLY going to do about these OS, everything other than what is in the announcement is speculation. Consider that within the last year Windows 10 was the last OS they were going to release....
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
i wonder if the win 10 is last ever thing was to stop people asking when the next windows was... now people are parroting it back at them.

i think it depends how many stay on 10 as to if 2025 gets an extension. I can't see them wanting too many people to have to choose linux, even linus doesn't think thats a good choice for most.
 

Isaac Zackary

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Stay with Windows 10 for now. Set several calendar reminders for 2.5, 3, 3.5, 4, years out to reexamine upgrading to Windows 11 for your clients/friends.
And maybe suggest a savings scheme. October of 2025 is over 50 months away. $10 saved per month will make $500 available by then for a new computer.

It does make me stop and rethink helping people with their computers. There are a couple people who'd like me to get their older laptops running smoothly. But by the time you factor in even the cheapest SSD and a reasonable amount of RAM, plus tax and shipping, it could easily be $70 per computer. Maybe that $70 would be better saved for a newer computer? Or would $70 for a computer that will probably last another 4 years be worth it?
 

Isaac Zackary

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Win 10 will be supported until at least 2025.

By 2024 or so, you'll be able to find an off lease or refurb laptop for ~$200-300. Fully capable of running Win 11 long into the future.
Which will completely blow away whatever they are running now.

And this is not really a new concept.
Consider a PC bought in 1997. Windows 95. Then upgraded to Win 98.
Would you still expect to be using that system in 2015, with 2015 applications and changing security models? No.
10-15-20 years from a PC is loooong.

Technology evolves.
True. But it's no longer about the performance unless you're into the latest of gaming. Back in the 1990's sure. You had to have a computer that was built within the last year or two to get the latest operating system and for it to run smoothly. Nowadays you can take a computer from even the Windows XP days that's fast enough and put Windows 10 on it and have a decent desktop experience.

It's kind of like cars. Decades ago I'd always have to floor the accelerator to get up to speed. We're talking about cars with between 40 to 60hp. But in my current car with 200hp I never floor it. There's no need. And yet there have been people that have been trying to convince me to get a newer car with some 300hp.
 

USAFRet

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True. But it's no longer about the performance unless you're into the latest of gaming. Back in the 1990's sure. You had to have a computer that was built within the last year or two to get the latest operating system and for it to run smoothly. Nowadays you can take a computer from even the Windows XP days that's fast enough and put Windows 10 on it and have a decent desktop experience.

It's kind of like cars. Decades ago I'd always have to floor the accelerator to get up to speed. We're talking about cars with between 40 to 60hp. But in my current car with 200hp I never floor it. There's no need. And yet there have been people that have been trying to convince me to get a newer car with some 300hp.
Its also all the other stuff.

I have a 2009 era Tosh laptop.
2.2GHz Celeron, 250GB HDD, 2GB RAM, Win 10.
$350 new.

Was my initial test box for the Win 10 Tech Preview rollout.

It is terribly slow.
Sure, it runs. But basically unusable, even for just basic web browsing.
It is what it is.

I also have a small Asus Transformer. $200, bought in 2018.
Intel Nsomething Atom, 4GB Ram, 64GB hardwired SSD, Win 10 Pro.
It runs circles around the old Tosh.

I could probably add RAM and an SSD to the old Tosh, and it would still be slow...
That money would be much better put to a whole new thing.


Win 10 was/is much more friendly to older hardware than Win 11 seems to be.
But at some point, the cord needs to be cut.

By the time Win 10 falls off support, devices compatible with 11 will be cheap and easily available.
 
It's kind of like cars. Decades ago I'd always have to floor the accelerator to get up to speed. We're talking about cars with between 40 to 60hp. But in my current car with 200hp I never floor it. There's no need. And yet there have been people that have been trying to convince me to get a newer car with some 300hp.
There are some differences though. The roads now aren't worse then 20-30 years ago, often are better. Software on the other hand gets worse and worse at hardware utilization. Back in good old C64 days if you want to write a drive speedloader you actually had to fit it in about 400 bytes - the drive simply didn't have more free RAM. Today, nobody cares about RAM usage. Darn, most games hit the market with memory leaks. You ran out of memory? Nah, we are not fixing this bug, too much work, just install 8Gb more and you'll be fine.
 
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USAFRet

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There are some differences though. The roads now aren't worse then 20-30 years ago, often are better. Software on the other hand gets worse and worse at hardware utilization. Back in good old C64 days if you want to write a drive speedloader you actually had to fit it in about 400 bytes - the drive simply didn't have more free RAM. Today, nobody cares about RAM usage. Darn, most games hit the market with memory leaks. You ran out of memory? Nah, we are not fixing this bug, too much work, just install 8Gb more and you'll be fine.
And its not just software, but attacks.

Anything vaguely connected to an outside source is being continually scanned, looking for a way in.
And they are evolving.
Software (OS, browsers, applications) need to be continually updated to reject that. Sometimes, a new threat needs new hardware, and cannot be done on old hardware.

Here, TPM in particular.
Or a new browser update..."We're no longer supporting CPUs older than X"
 

USAFRet

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Often, we look at our old hardware through rose colored glasses.

"I have this old latop, I LOVE IT., blah blah."

I have a 1998 Dell Latitude. Don't know the specs, but typical of a mid level office laptop.
2 hard drives...1 with W2K and one with PuppyLinux.

Powering it is on the order of:
Press power button.
Go pee.
Get a beer.
Make a sandwich.
Come back, and maybe it is at the desktop.

Running NOTHING but the OS.

In its day, it was an OK system.
Today, even with its period relevant OS...it is laughable.
The only reason I kept it around was that it was the only laptop I had still having a serial port. Used to interface with the OBDII cable for the cars.
(said cable replaced with one that talks via USB)
 

Isaac Zackary

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Well good news. A couple of the laptops I've been fixing up (one I already gave away) are compatible with Windows 11. The older one, an HP Pavilion 15-ab262nr with a Core i7 and I upped the RAM to 16GB and threw in an SSD and moved the HDD over to the DVD bay, I already got Windows 11 up and running (just to test it out). We can always go back to Windows 10 until the W11 is official.

Not bad for a couple older computers, one that cost me $60 and the other $30.
 

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