Stock cooler out performing Hyper 212? (4670k vs 4590)

T3h_LoU

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Hey guys, hoping you can help answer the following for me. I will keep it as short as possible.

I have 2 machines now. Machine A, which has been my primary gaming machine for the last 3 years, and Machine B which I just built last night to be a living room HT and maybe some casual gaming on. (specs below)

So Machine A, which has the 4670K in it at stock (had it OC’d to 4.2 but set to stock for comparison) has Hyper 212 with 2 HP SP 120s (2500 rpm fans) on it and Im getting 55-59ish on my hottest cores in games like Witcher 3 and Fallout 4.

But Machine B has a 4590 and with the STOCK COOLER from intel its getting 45-50 in those same games.
I don’t understand how this could be. The 4670K has a far better cooler on it.
Even in Prime 95 v 26.6 the stock cooler 4590 is outperforming the Hyper 212 4670K. Getting up to 68 Celsius on my hottest core on the 4670K and only 62-63 with stock cooler on 4590.

And before you ask if maybe I put the Heat sync on wrong, no. These have always been my temps (I used this 4670K on a z87 build 3 years ago and just upgraded to the z97 and got the same temps there)

Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

Machine A:
I5-4670K
MSI Z97 SLI Krait Mobo
Hyper 212 push pull HP SP120 Corsair fans
8GB Crucial Ballistic X
EVGA GTX 970 SSC
600W 80+Bronze EVGA PSU
OS on 120 GB Samsung Evo840
Games on 250 GB Samsung Evo840 and 2TB WD
Case: NZXT 440

Machine B:
I5-4590
Asrock H97 Micro
Stock intel fan
8GB Crucial Ballistic X
EVGA GTX 950 SC (small edition)
430W 80+ EVGA PSU
1TB WD Blue HDD
Case: Corsair Air 240

 
The first idea is because those two chips are different sub-generations, Haswell and Haswell Refresh, the Haswell Refresh TIM is better (and I think that was one of the Haswell Refresh improvements) The 4590 may also have better stepping; it is a more refined, and efficient version of even a 4590, being toward the end of its life as new.
 

firefoxx04

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the comparison is not good. Are both chips running at the same turbo frequency?

You are comparing two different cases that probably have different fans.

Lastly, the Evo is not some magical cooler. Its far from the best, its main appeal is its value. It wont cool well if in a bad environment.
 

T3h_LoU

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Thanks for the reply Donkey. Are you sure the 4590 is part of the Haswell Refresh? Can you point me somewhere to confirm this? On the wiki page it says they are both a part of the "Haswell-DT" group.
 

T3h_LoU

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The 4670K is at stock 3.4 and turbo boosts to 3.8. the 4590 is at 3.3 and goes TB to 3.7.
Yes the 4670K is in an NZXT H440 (I used to have it in an Antec GX700 and got the same temps), while the 4590 is in a Corsair Air 240.
 

synphul

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The 4590 is haswell refresh.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7963/the-intel-haswell-refresh-review-core-i7-4790-i5-4690-and-i3-4360-tested/2

The 4670k came out in june of 2013 while the 4590 came out in may 2014 as part of the 'refresh' lineup. Check the release dates on the wikipedia page.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_(microarchitecture)

The HR's did use a different internal tim compound to improve upon the original tim used under the ihs of the original haswell. It's also possible that the hyper 212 isn't mounted as tight. Assuming it's the 212 evo, there's a thumbscrew under the cooling tower right in the middle of the cooler base. Turning it will help improve mounting tension and may improve contact and temps. It may also depend on the fan speed settings in the bios, one motherboard may have the cpu fan spinning up faster than the other.
 

T3h_LoU

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So I guess my question is this. Was the Haswell Refresh really THAT much better than the original when it came to heat dissipation?
 
It could be. Chips are individual and you could have a 'hot' 4670K and a 'cool' 4590. Also an early 4670K and a late 4590 will magnify any difference. The original Haswell chips were very 'hot' as class when they were released for demanding applications, like gaming, and the TIM was less good than it needed to be.

Cooler installation could also be an issue along with a fans and other minor things. If you want to 'solve' the problem, I'd swap the coolers and see what happens. That should give you enough data to zero in on the cause.
 

T3h_LoU

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I can tell you that when I had the stock cooler on my 4670K a few years ago it ran hot as hell. Prime 95 would top it out in the high 80s on stock temps. The Hyper 212 made a 20+ degree difference. So I dont want to swap the coolers, but I might just swap the CPU's.

Question (since Ive never done that) will I need to reinstall any INF drivers or motherboard drivers by changing the cpus from one to the other?

When I upgraded my mobo from z87 to z97 I decided just to reinstall windows.
 
Wel,l if was 'hot as hell' on stock, what you have now seems very reasonable and likely a combination of TIM and early production 4670K.

You will need to make sure that the BIOS on your Z87 will support Haswell Refresh. I have a couple of Z87 systems (for overclocking) and a Z97, and a H97. They were all built and bought in the last two years and I can freely swap Haswell and Haswell Refresh, Pentiums, Xeons and oveclockable i7s around in a few minutes.
 

T3h_LoU

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No no. The Z87 is on the shelf. Its no longer being used. Today my big rig is using a Z97 and my living room rig is an H97.
I just mentioned the Z87 to say that I originally built the 4670K on the z87 so I knew it wasnt the motherboard or chipset that was doing anything wonky.

 

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