Story generation systems

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Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Hi,

I'd like to know if there're any "strongly recommended"(I) books in
the field of "story generation systems" (ie: dynamic stories which
change as a result of the characters actions, interactively). I've
found a book called "First Person: New Media As Story, Performance,
and Game" at Amazon, although I don't really know how useful can it be
for me, as there're very few clues there to judge.

My main interest would be to learn techniques that might allow to
_partially_ "de-linearize" a linear three-act classic movie script. I
said "partially" because I don't wish total freedom for the story...
I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
stories, etc...).


(I)by "strongly recommended", I mean a book which can be understood
and enjoyed by people with experience in software development and film
screenwriting but who might lack a deep knowledge of AI theory. Also,
a book with intuitive examples, and as up to date with current
research as possible.

TIA.
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Brian Magerko at the University of Michigan is working on this type of
thing...

http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~magerko/research/index.html


nopa wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if there're any "strongly recommended"(I) books in
> the field of "story generation systems" (ie: dynamic stories which
> change as a result of the characters actions, interactively). I've
> found a book called "First Person: New Media As Story, Performance,
> and Game" at Amazon, although I don't really know how useful can it be
> for me, as there're very few clues there to judge.
>
> My main interest would be to learn techniques that might allow to
> _partially_ "de-linearize" a linear three-act classic movie script. I
> said "partially" because I don't wish total freedom for the story...
> I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
> script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
> still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
> for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
> it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
> keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
> stories, etc...).
>
>
> (I)by "strongly recommended", I mean a book which can be understood
> and enjoyed by people with experience in software development and film
> screenwriting but who might lack a deep knowledge of AI theory. Also,
> a book with intuitive examples, and as up to date with current
> research as possible.
>
> TIA.
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

nopaperfound@yahoo.com (nopa) wrote in news:c840bfca.0407152236.49752072
@posting.google.com:

> I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
> script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
> still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
> for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
> it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
> keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
> stories, etc...).

Hmmm I dont have an answer to your question, but your comment brings a
thought to mind. One of the things I remember hearing frequently is "I
hate that movie because it has a XXXXXX ending". I was thinking you might
be headed in a direction to avoid that.

At the end of the story where the main change of direction often occurs,
offering the user a choice. Does this character actually die here
(tragedy ending), or miraculously recover (happy ending), or turn out to
have been a horrible person anyway (twist ending).

Such a movie would go over well in my household with a prefer-happy wife,
a doom-and-gloom teen, and a loves-twists brother-in-law.
Just a thought.

Gandalf Parker
-- WANTED: A trustworthy "wish I had ideas" project finisher to partner
in a profit sharing relationship with an excellent "got too many ideas"
project starter.
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Thank you. I downloaded his paper where he discusses the ideas and
plans for his Interactive Drama Architecture. From that paper, I found
references to other researchers, and so I was able to get an idea of
the state of the art.

What I initially called "story generation systems" seems to be known
as "Interactive Drama".

Unfortunately, Interactive Drama is based on some objectives and
principles which differ from mine. For example, they focus in first
person perspective (which is bad for me because it negates any proper
use of film language and techniques), and also they assume the user
will behave naturally in his role, through a natural language
interface (this is an obstacle for playing roles the user lacks
knowledge in, for example playing a lawyer or a judge).

I think the reason for my objections to Interactive Drama is that they
assume the user is immersed in a certain character, while I'm more
interested in immersion in the drama. When you go to the movies, you
feel an immersive experience, but not just with a single character...
it's a more global thing. When you feel "I'd like that girl to fall in
love with the lead character", you're actually wishing to control more
than just the lead character. And also, you can wish you were the
lawyer and feel immersed in his role (and enjoy him speaking with
legal technical vocabulary) even if you've no idea about law, a kind
of experience Interactive Drama seems to negate.

Anyway, Interactive Drama has many interesting ideas and theories
which will be useful for me.

Thanks a lot!!


"Randolph M. Jones" <rjones@colby.edu> wrote in message news:<40F7CB4C.2020302@colby.edu>...
> Brian Magerko at the University of Michigan is working on this type of
> thing...
>
> http://www.eecs.umich.edu/~magerko/research/index.html
>
>
> nopa wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to know if there're any "strongly recommended"(I) books in
> > the field of "story generation systems" (ie: dynamic stories which
> > change as a result of the characters actions, interactively). I've
> > found a book called "First Person: New Media As Story, Performance,
> > and Game" at Amazon, although I don't really know how useful can it be
> > for me, as there're very few clues there to judge.
> >
> > My main interest would be to learn techniques that might allow to
> > _partially_ "de-linearize" a linear three-act classic movie script. I
> > said "partially" because I don't wish total freedom for the story...
> > I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
> > script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
> > still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
> > for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
> > it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
> > keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
> > stories, etc...).
> >
> >
> > (I)by "strongly recommended", I mean a book which can be understood
> > and enjoyed by people with experience in software development and film
> > screenwriting but who might lack a deep knowledge of AI theory. Also,
> > a book with intuitive examples, and as up to date with current
> > research as possible.
> >
> > TIA.
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote in message news:<Xns9528402B85CEDgandalfparker@208.201.224.154>...
> nopaperfound@yahoo.com (nopa) wrote in news:c840bfca.0407152236.49752072
> @posting.google.com:
>
> > I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
> > script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
> > still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
> > for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
> > it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
> > keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
> > stories, etc...).
>
> Hmmm I dont have an answer to your question, but your comment brings a
> thought to mind. One of the things I remember hearing frequently is "I
> hate that movie because it has a XXXXXX ending". I was thinking you might
> be headed in a direction to avoid that.
>
> At the end of the story where the main change of direction often occurs,
> offering the user a choice. Does this character actually die here
> (tragedy ending), or miraculously recover (happy ending), or turn out to
> have been a horrible person anyway (twist ending).
>
> Such a movie would go over well in my household with a prefer-happy wife,
> a doom-and-gloom teen, and a loves-twists brother-in-law.
> Just a thought.

Here we're entering one of the main discussion topics in Interactive
Drama: The tension between player freedom and the writer's will. If
the player has total freedom, we have a game like The Sims. If the
writer has all the control, we've hypertext or interactive fiction.
However, interactive drama wishes to get another type of balance,
somewhere in the middle.

Now the film "The Truman Show" comes to my mind... Truman wished to
travel to other countries, while "the system" made all possible things
to avoid that.
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Gandalf Parker wrote:
> nopaperfound@yahoo.com (nopa) wrote in news:c840bfca.0407152236.49752072
> @posting.google.com:
>
>
>>I'm interested in "de-linearization ways" which can keep the original
>>script structure and intention to some extent (ie: the story should be
>>still "guided" by an intelligent system which has an "intention"...
>>for example, if this is a tragedy, it _must_ always be a tragedy; if
>>it's a happy story, it must be happy; if there's an interest in
>>keeping a three-act structure, it would be kept in all the generated
>>stories, etc...).
>
>
> Hmmm I dont have an answer to your question, but your comment brings a
> thought to mind. One of the things I remember hearing frequently is "I
> hate that movie because it has a XXXXXX ending". I was thinking you might
> be headed in a direction to avoid that.

There was such a [paper based] system included in one of the later
modules for AD&D to aid the the dungeon master in designing new
adventures quickly. It is 15+ yrs since, but IIRC it had a matrix for
the main story and its sidelines and and it listed possible sidelines /
diversions.

Lars

--
+---------------------------------------------+-------------------+
|Lars Thuring | "2b|!2b?" (Hamlet)|
| +-------------------+
|Computer links http://www.thuring.com/cpu/index.html |
|Quotes http://www.thuring.com/life/quotes.html |
|JASL - computer ASL http://www.thuring.com/asl/jasl/index.html |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games, comp.games.development.design (More info?)

There is a lot of work going on in this field at the moment, but most
of it seems to be research, rather than pratical game applications. I
have written a small article about this on my site:
http://gonshaw.net/musings/2005/musing_01_05_05.htm. My conclusions
were that we have neither the processing power nor the software
solutions to do what you're thinking about at the moment.

Ben
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:24:03 +0100, thuring <spam@thuring.com> wrote:
>There was such a [paper based] system included in one of the later
>modules for AD&D to aid the the dungeon master in designing new
>adventures quickly. It is 15+ yrs since, but IIRC it had a matrix for
>the main story and its sidelines and and it listed possible sidelines /
>diversions.
>
Lars,

I don't suppose that you remember which module that was in ? I have a
large collection of older AD&D stuff so I may actually have it
somewhere...

Ta.

--
Alfie
<http://www.delphia.co.uk/>
REALITY.EXE corrupt. Reboot universe (Y/N) ?
 
Archived from groups: comp.ai.games,comp.games.development.design (More info?)

Alfie [UK] wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:24:03 +0100, thuring <spam@thuring.com> wrote:
>
>>There was such a [paper based] system included in one of the later
>>modules for AD&D to aid the the dungeon master in designing new
>>adventures quickly. It is 15+ yrs since, but IIRC it had a matrix for
>>the main story and its sidelines and and it listed possible sidelines /
>>diversions.
>>
>
> Lars,
>
> I don't suppose that you remember which module that was in ? I have a
> large collection of older AD&D stuff so I may actually have it
> somewhere...
>
> Ta.

It is in a hard to reach attic. Next time I am up there I will open the
AD&D box and see. It was a pretty think booklet. That is all I remember.
Sorry!

regards,
Lars



--

+---------------------------------------------+-------------------+
|Lars Thuring | "2b|!2b?" (Hamlet)|
| +-------------------+
|Computer links http://www.thuring.com/cpu/index.html |
|Quotes http://www.thuring.com/life/quotes.html |
|JASL - computer ASL http://www.thuring.com/asl/jasl/index.html |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
 
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