Strange dunce cap behaviour

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Hi.

Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this. Anyway, killed
the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed otherwise,
wouldn't it?
HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.

Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?



Greetings,
blindy
 
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Benjamin Schieder wrote:

> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this.
> Anyway, killed the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next
> altar as blessed. Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it
> would have been cursed otherwise, wouldn't it?
> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.

If it hadn't been a dunce cap, it would have been a cornuthaum, which
has bad effects if you put it on, just as a dunce cap.

ONLY wizards may take advantage of a cornuthaum: other classes just look
silly wearing one.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.
 
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Boudewijn Waijers wrote:

> If it hadn't been a dunce cap, it would have been a cornuthaum, which
> has bad effects if you put it on, just as a dunce cap.

But AFAIK it doesn't autocurse, it just makes you look silly if you're not
a wizard (and stylish if you are).

Raisse, killed by a falling rock

--
irina@valdyas.org LegoHack: http://www.valdyas.org/irina/nethack/
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
 

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Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote in
news:424d8103$0$11477$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net:

> Hi.
>
> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this. Anyway,
killed
> the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
otherwise,
> wouldn't it?
> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>
> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> blindy
>
only if it was a weapon would you notice anything...
 
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chuck wrote:
> Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote in
> news:424d8103$0$11477$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net:
>> killed
>> the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
>> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
>> otherwise, wouldn't it?
>> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>
>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>
> only if it was a weapon would you notice anything...

The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
was identified as blessed at the altar.

--
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the coffee, she is just not thick
 

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Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-
online.com:

> chuck wrote:
>> Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote in
>> news:424d8103$0$11477$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net:
>>> killed
>>> the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
>>> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
>>> otherwise, wouldn't it?
>>> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>>
>>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
> >
>> only if it was a weapon would you notice anything...
>
> The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
> that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
> was identified as blessed at the altar.
>
If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that I
replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything when the
mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was addressing.


--
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chuck wrote:
> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-
> online.com:
>>The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
>>that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
>>was identified as blessed at the altar.
>
> If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that I
> replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything when the
> mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was addressing.

Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
notice anything.

Bejamin's message was:
> Hi.
>
> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this. Anyway, killed
> the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed otherwise,
> wouldn't it?
> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>
> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> blindy

--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
 
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Sebastian Hungerecker wrote:
> chuck wrote:
>
>> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
>> news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-
>> online.com:
>>
>>> The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
>>> that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
>>> was identified as blessed at the altar.
>>
>> If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that
>> I replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything
>> when the mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was addressing.
>
> Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
> exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
> notice anything.
>
> Bejamin's message was:
>
>> Hi.
>>
>> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
>> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this.
>> Anyway, killed the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next
>> altar as blessed.
>> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
>> otherwise, wouldn't it?
>> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>
>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>>
>> Greetings,
>> blindy
>

He may have misinterpreted the "it would have been cursed otherwise"
line to mean "I would have seen it curse itself otherwise," a plausible
(but still incorrect) error.

If you read messages as quickly and inaccurately as possible, these
errors will happen (I've done similar things, although after being
flamed, I tend to re-read the OP carefully before flaming back).

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Shadow
|Moo. > \/
\____/
 

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Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d2lk37$mf1$04$1@news.t-
online.com:

> chuck wrote:
>> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-
>> online.com:
>>>The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
>>>that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
>>>was identified as blessed at the altar.
>>
>> If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that I
>> replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything when the
>> mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was addressing.
>
> Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
> exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
> notice anything.
>
> Bejamin's message was:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
>> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this. Anyway,
killed
>> the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next altar as blessed.
>> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
otherwise,
>> wouldn't it?
>> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>
>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> blindy
>
he didn't notice a black glow when the mountain centaur put it on, which of
course he wouldn't. my point was that if instead the centaur had wielded a
cursed dagger the game would have said "the dagger is welded the the
centaur's hand" and thus he would have known that the dagger was cursed but
since it doesn't give such messages unless other creatures attempt to remove
the armor, which the centaur didn't since it was killed before it tried, no
such message was given.
 
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chuck wrote:
> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
> news:d2lk37$mf1$04$1@news.t- online.com:
>
>
>> chuck wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
>>> news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-online.com:
>>>
>>>> The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap
>>>> auto-cursing, but that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse,
>>>> when the C put it on. It was identified as blessed at the
>>>> altar.
>>>
>>> If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one
>>> that I replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice
>>> anything when the mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was
>>> addressing.
>>
>> Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me
>> where exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that
>> he didn't notice anything.
>>
>> Bejamin's message was:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap: A
>>> Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this.
>>> Anyway, killed the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the
>>> next altar as blessed. Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap
>>> since it would have been cursed otherwise, wouldn't it? HAH! Put
>>> it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>>
>>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings, blindy
>>
> he didn't notice a black glow when the mountain centaur put it on,
> which of course he wouldn't. my point was that if instead the centaur
> had wielded a cursed dagger the game would have said "the dagger is
> welded the the centaur's hand" and thus he would have known that the
> dagger was cursed but since it doesn't give such messages unless
> other creatures attempt to remove the armor, which the centaur didn't
> since it was killed before it tried, no such message was given.

You fail to realize something.

It is irrelevant whether or not a message was given. The hat should have
cursed itself regardless of whether or not a message was given. Here,
have a step-by-step guide of what should have happened:

1. Centaur holds conical hat.
2. Centaur puts on conical hat.
3. Conical hat glows black, and curses itself if not already cursed. No
message is given, but hat still autocurses.
4. Centaur is killed. Hat is still cursed.
5. OP picks up hat. Hat is still cursed.
6. OP puts hat on altar. Hat glows black because hat is still cursed.

This is where something wrong happens. The hat doesn't glow black like
it should, it
glows amber. Evidently, something is wrong.

--
____ (__)
/ \ (oo) -Shadow
|Moo. > \/
\____/
 

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Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote in news:l7OdnTlO9LuWUtPfRVn-
sQ@comcast.com:

> Sebastian Hungerecker wrote:
>> chuck wrote:
>>
>>> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
>>> news:d2ke4i$k2o$01$1@news.t-
>>> online.com:
>>>
>>>> The problem isn't that the OP didn't notice the cap auto-cursing, but
>>>> that the cap aparently _didn't_ auto-curse, when the C put it on. It
>>>> was identified as blessed at the altar.
>>>
>>> If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that
>>> I replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything
>>> when the mountain centaur put it on. That is what I was addressing.
>>
>> Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
>> exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
>> notice anything.
>>
>> Bejamin's message was:
>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> Earlier my knight had a strange encounter with a dunce cap:
>>> A Mountain Centaur put on a conical hat. First time I saw this.
>>> Anyway, killed the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next
>>> altar as blessed.
>>> Alright I think, can't be a dunce cap since it would have been cursed
>>> otherwise, wouldn't it?
>>> HAH! Put it on: The conical hat glows black for a moment.
>>>
>>> Shouldn't it have done so with the Mountain Centaur already?
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> blindy
>>
>
> He may have misinterpreted the "it would have been cursed otherwise"
> line to mean "I would have seen it curse itself otherwise," a plausible
> (but still incorrect) error.
>
> If you read messages as quickly and inaccurately as possible, these
> errors will happen (I've done similar things, although after being
> flamed, I tend to re-read the OP carefully before flaming back).
>

although you'll probably read my last message first, he didn't notice any
black glow when the centaur put it on, thereby the OP assumed it wasn't
cursed, when such a conclusion could only be made when the centaur tried to
REMOVE said cap. (if that's what you meant then these posts really are
getting too confusing! ;7{) )

--
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chuck wrote:
> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d2lk37$mf1$04$1@news.t-
> online.com:
>>chuck wrote:
>>>Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote:
>>>If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that I
>>>replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything when the
>>>mountain centaur put [the dunce cap] on. That is what I was addressing.
>>
>>Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
>>exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
>>notice anything.
>
> he didn't notice a black glow when the mountain centaur put it on, which of
> course he wouldn't. my point was that if instead the centaur had wielded a
> cursed dagger the game would have said "the dagger is welded the the
> centaur's hand" and thus he would have known that the dagger was cursed but
> since it doesn't give such messages unless other creatures attempt to remove
> the armor, which the centaur didn't since it was killed before it tried, no
> such message was given.

The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
it should have been cursed.


--
If geiger counter does not click,
the coffee, she is just not thick
 
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> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
> it should have been cursed.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make :/
 
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Benjamin Schieder wrote:

>> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
>> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
>> it should have been cursed.
>
> That's exactly the point I was trying to make :/

Don't worry, you made your point perfectly clearly ... the last time I
made this attempt with chuck I had the honour of being plonked because
there were "many things I didn't understand".

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.
 
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begin quoting Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> (Sun, 03 Apr 2005
10:56:10 +0200):
> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
> it should have been cursed.

Well dunce caps also lack their other effects on monsters. Why should
they preserve the autocursing? ;-)

--
Jilles Tjoelker
jilles AT stack DOT nl
 

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Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote in news:ts6dnRv4V6cCptLfRVn-
hA@comcast.com:

>
> You fail to realize something.
>
> It is irrelevant whether or not a message was given. The hat should have
> cursed itself regardless of whether or not a message was given. Here,
> have a step-by-step guide of what should have happened:
>
> 1. Centaur holds conical hat.
> 2. Centaur puts on conical hat.
> 3. Conical hat glows black, and curses itself if not already cursed. No
> message is given, but hat still autocurses.
> 4. Centaur is killed. Hat is still cursed.
> 5. OP picks up hat. Hat is still cursed.
> 6. OP puts hat on altar. Hat glows black because hat is still cursed.
>
> This is where something wrong happens. The hat doesn't glow black like
> it should, it
> glows amber. Evidently, something is wrong.
>
I don't recall seeing anything about ANY glow at all. My impression is that
the glow is just mental to the creature affected in any case, the glow is not
going to help anyone except in the first person (if this is wrong then mia
culpa for the deductions following from this)

--
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Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in news:d2ob3n$jth$05$1@news.t-
online.com:

> chuck wrote:
>> Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote in
news:d2lk37$mf1$04$1@news.t-
>> online.com:
>>>chuck wrote:
>>>>Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> wrote:
>>>>If you compare my message to the original in this thead (the one that I
>>>>replied to), you'll notice he says that he didn't notice anything when
the
>>>>mountain centaur put [the dunce cap] on. That is what I was addressing.
>>>
>>>Either I'm blind or you're confusing something. Can you tell me where
>>>exactly in his message did he say, that his problem was that he didn't
>>>notice anything.
>>
>> he didn't notice a black glow when the mountain centaur put it on, which
of
>> course he wouldn't. my point was that if instead the centaur had wielded a
>> cursed dagger the game would have said "the dagger is welded the the
>> centaur's hand" and thus he would have known that the dagger was cursed
but
>> since it doesn't give such messages unless other creatures attempt to
remove
>> the armor, which the centaur didn't since it was killed before it tried,
no
>> such message was given.
>
> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
> it should have been cursed.
>
>
I don't see this. something doesn't fit.


--
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Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote in
news:424fbd13$0$11461$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net:

>> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
>> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
>> it should have been cursed.
>
> That's exactly the point I was trying to make :/
>
Yeah, I see that now, but a) what version of nethack, what OS (if linux
distribution & version thereof and preferably kernel version (full number
please) as well)


--
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Jilles Tjoelker <jilles@nospam.stack.nl.nospam> wrote in
news:slrnd52pis.2h3h.jilles@turtle.stack.nl:

> begin quoting Sebastian Hungerecker <sepp00@web.de> (Sun, 03 Apr 2005
> 10:56:10 +0200):
>> The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
>> The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
>> it should have been cursed.
>
> Well dunce caps also lack their other effects on monsters. Why should
> they preserve the autocursing? ;-)
>


have you ever uncursed a lodestone, dropped it and picked it up again? it
curses itself again.
--
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chuck wrote:
> Shadow <shadow@shadowedlogic.uni.cc> wrote:
>
>>You fail to realize something.
>>

>>This is where something wrong happens. The hat doesn't glow black like
>>it should, it
>>glows amber. Evidently, something is wrong.
>>
> I don't recall seeing anything about ANY glow at all.

<424d8103$0$11477$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net> said:

> Anyway, killed the C, get the conical hat, BCU-ID'ed it at the next
> altar as blessed. [i.e. amber flash]

HTH

Lars
 
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chuck wrote:
> Benjamin Schieder <blindcoder@scavenger.homeip.net> wrote in
> news:424fbd13$0$11461$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net:
>
>
>>>The problem wasn't that there was no message about the cap being cursed.
>>>The problem was that the cap _wasn't_ cursed - it was blessed - although
>>>it should have been cursed.
>>
>>That's exactly the point I was trying to make :/

> Yeah, I see that now, but a) what version of nethack, what OS (if linux
> distribution & version thereof and preferably kernel version (full number
> please) as well)

any will do:

Helmet_on() in do_wear.c explicitly checks for dunce caps and HooA,
while m_dowear_type() in worn.c doesn't

Use the Source, Luke

Lars
 
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Jilles Tjoelker wrote:

> Well dunce caps also lack their other effects on monsters. Why should
> they preserve the autocursing? ;-)

Because in Nethack monsters should be subject to the same effects as the
player. So maybe dunce caps should autocurse and render the monster
mindless (monsters don't have stats) to mimic the effect they have on
players.

Lars
 
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Lars Kecke wrote:
>
> So maybe dunce caps should autocurse and render the monster mindless
> (monsters don't have stats) to mimic the effect they have on players.

"The kobold puts on a dunce cap. The kobold lurches like a kobold zombie."

Janis
 
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> Yeah, I see that now, but a) what version of nethack, what OS (if linux
> distribution & version thereof and preferably kernel version (full number
> please) as well)

I can give that to you but I doubt it will help you:
- Nethack 3.4.3
- ROCK Linux 2.1-dev (revision 5746)
- Linux kernel 2.6.10 (changed during this game from 2.6.6)
though I really don't see what the kernel version would have to do with nethack