Strict $800 first-time build

[ti1706]

I'm looking to build a system, this will be a first attempt for me, I appreciate any recommendations you guys might have.
Hate to dampen spirits, but I have a firm $800.00 limit INCLUDING taxes, shipping, and any other charges (such as the OS, and any first-timer items).
Lastly, I do NOT need a monitor, I have an acceptable one (LCD) already.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: ASAP

BUDGET RANGE: US $0-800.00

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Flash animation/games rendering, internet browsing, music composition/listening, video editing, movies/gaming

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitor, and I am not adverse to grabbing a discount keyboard and mouse.

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg.com, or anything with a clean reputation.

PARTS PREFERENCES: an Intel processor (AMD, if better bang for buck)

OVERCLOCKING: Despite no experience, I'd like to try and overclock. As for Crossfire/SLI, I'm not a high-end gamer, so... probably no.

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I'm a big multi-tasker (4-5 internet pages, Sony Vegas, Notepad, Core Media Player would be typical), The extent of my gaming aspirations is a WoW-esque game. I render a lot of Flash, and I'd like to start doing some graphics work (anyone recommend a good pen tablet?). I hope to be able to upgrade and reuse this build for a couple of years (better graphics card, sound card, RAM, etc.).
Hard Drive size isn't a big concern for me (250gb or better is fine), but its access speed is. For the sake of not falling behind, I'd prefer DDR3 RAM. Finally, I've been using XP for years, waiting out Vista... so I'll probably go with a 64-bit version (Home is fine) and upgrade to 7.

Many thanks for your time.

 

[ti1706]

XFX's card has no RAM combo, though. This means that the prices are:
XFX+G.Skill = $204.98
MSI+G.Skill = $184.98 ($174.98 with MiR)
Sapphire + G.Skill = $206.96

... if the Sapphire beats the XFX, then there's not much point in buying the latter, unless it's the other way around.

Hopefully, I'll know whether or not I'm eligible for the Student Discount in a few days... since I'll be sending the information, tomorrow. If so, then I might be able to grab that better motherboard (see earlier post), along with a good gpu, after all.

Twice a month? ... ouch, that's inconvenient.

Thanks for the Boot CD offer, but I'd rather wait and see how that discount pans out.

Also, I want to say thanks, again, Medo, for the time you've spent posting.
(Otherwise, I'd probably have purchased some lousy parts)

 

[psycho sykes]

■ Quotes by "ti1706"
Quote:
XFX's card has no RAM combo, though. This means that the prices are:
XFX+G.Skill = $204.98
MSI+G.Skill = $184.98 ($174.98 with MiR)
Sapphire + G.Skill = $206.96
... if the Sapphire beats the XFX, then there's not much point in buying the latter, unless it's the other way around.
MSI has been the best vendor in my country. But i don't like it and as you noticed most people on the internet don't like it. Still they make good budget options but.. It's your call.
Actually XFX is better than Sapphire but they're new to Radeon business however you can be sure they're superior by all means..

Quote:
Hopefully, I'll know whether or not I'm eligible for the Student Discount in a few days... since I'll be sending the information, tomorrow. If so, then I might be able to grab that better motherboard (see earlier post), along with a good gpu, after all.
I hope so. And the main-board you posted earlier is very good but I'll try and compare it with similarly priced Asrock, Asus, eVGA etc. to make sure of price/perf. thing.

Quote:
Twice a month? ... ouch, that's inconvenient.
Well that's for a simple reason. (you don't have to worry about such things) You see.. I do a lot of "work" that need hardware level file access and such. I used to make patches for games (to fix problems, errors and crashes when game vendors are late. Nothing illegal . And use platform simulations a lot. Currently waiting for CoD MW2 and AS2!) but never released them!! And i encounter a lot of problems which sometimes force me to do a clean re-install. (this one i didn't have to re-install it since July ). Also I found a good way around this by simply installing the Win then installing the most important programs (anti-virus, office, tuners etc.) and then make a clone of the Win drive (using Norton ghost or Acronis True image) Then using it in emergencies. I personally recommend Acronis True image they've been great..

Quote:
Thanks for the Boot CD offer, but I'd rather wait and see how that discount pans out.
Good luck.. If you ever change your mind just let me know.

Quote:
Also, I want to say thanks, again, Medo, for the time you've spent posting.
(Otherwise, I'd probably have purchased some lousy parts)
You're welcome...

Medo

 

[ti1706]

... all these hurdles are starting to wear me down, heh.

First up, judging by ratings, XFX is the superior brand... but the two cards in question are different. Sapphire's card is a 512 mb 4870, while XFX's is a 1gb 4850. Even with the brand power, is the XFX better than the Sapphire?


... and, in a surprising turnaround, I may go with that RC, after all. Digital River/Microsoft's offer will take "1-2 weeks" to determine if I am eligible (based on a scan of my student ID). Not knowing how long newegg's current discounts will continue, I am beginning to think that downloading the RC, or the 90-day trial (see link) may be a solution to my problem. My current PC (shared) has enough storage to last me a bit longer... so I thought I might try using the trial (safer than a RC torrent) until Microsoft clears, or denies, my access.

As is probably apparent, I'm not a tech student... however, Microsoft's only requirement was that I be enrolled in college, so I should be on the green (unless I missed something).

Of course, if this doesn't work, then things are going to go horribly wrong... and I'll be stuck with an OS-less PC, heh.

Does anybody have a tip to offer?

90-Day Trial:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/cc442495.aspx

 

[psycho sykes]

You didn't mention your resolution. Depending on it you may choose the HD4870 or HD4850. It's like..
■ ~1680x1050~ -> HD4850 512MB
■ ~1920x1200 HD4850 1GB
■ 1920x1200~ HD4870 1GB
■ Mid-detail high-end gaming ~1920x1200 HD4870 512MB
And XFX is a suprior brand yes but the HD4850 lacks the GDDR5 memory and additional 100MHz taken from the HD4870 (core and memory).

For Win7 you can ask one of your "mates" in the college if he tried and if succeeded or not.. Same thing should apply to you.
I don't know about the trial as it insists that you have to activate 10 days from installation or the shutdown limitation is activated. Also you'll have to buy Enterprise version of Win7 or you'll have to do a clean installation.
You can request a RC or RTM installation disk from a qualified Net-Cafe or something.. (Net-Cafes still sell those disks in my region and they're qualified by MS's branch here. You may try this..)

Or you can simply drop that GPU and wait for HD58xx which should bring down HD48xx prices and make the HD4890 for like $140 at most!! They should be released in an hour or so..

Medo

 

[overshocks]

^the HD4890 for like 140 at most, i believe that is a dream, the prices won't vary much on ati's part because when the cards come out nvidia needs to react not ati.

isn't this getting ridiculous more than 100 replies on a new system thread?

to OP , choose something already.

 

[ti1706]

^the HD4890 for like 140 at most, i believe that is a dream, the prices won't vary much on ati's part because when the cards come out nvidia needs to react not ati.

isn't this getting ridiculous more than 100 replies on a new system thread?

to OP , choose something already.

Perhaps you have more cash on hand than I do, so your buying process may be different... but when I spend $800.00 on something, I like to be certain of what I'm getting.

 

[ekoostik]

ti706, be sure to come back and let us know if you get approved or not by Digital River/Microsoft. I was considering going this route as well so would like to know how it works out for you.

 

[ti1706]

Regarding the build:
I'm not certain of my monitor's resolution, but I would guess that it's the same as this (shared pc's) one. This one's max resolution (According to WinXP Pro): 1280x1024

So... XFX, then?
Heh, be forewarned that I detest glitching and low-effect settings.
High Definition, however, isn't something I really care about.

Not to be cynical, but I doubt the prices will drop that fast... still, here's hoping.

Regarding the OS:

No one I know has ever built their own computer (nor used a RC), unfortunately.

I was under the impression that Microsoft would supply the activation license for the trial, and that the trial itself was non-committal. Was I wrong?

If so, do you happen to know of a good (free) Net-Cafe, that might have the RC?

EDIT: ^I'll probably post my results towards the end of this thread. Good luck with your attempt.

 

[ekoostik]

I think you may be getting more graphics card then you need. What type of monitor do you have? What's the model number? What size is it?

 

[ti1706]

I think you may be getting more graphics card then you need. What type of monitor do you have? What's the model number? What size is it?

It's a Dell (LCD). I have no idea what the Model number is. I wouldn't say it's any bigger than the 1280x1024... approx. 15x12" (width x height).

I picked it up at Goodwill (never thought I'd find one there) a few months ago, for around $20.00. Cheap, I know, but I wanted to save my money for the computer itself.

I agree with you, I am probably buying more power than I need. However, I wanted to be able to reuse parts, and upgrade over the months/years... and I truly despise freezing, faulty, and frustrating games, videos, animations, etc.

Still, like I said before, I'm fine with non-HD. This screen (1280x1024) looks great as it is.

EDIT: My screen might be a tad wider than the 15x12".

 

[psycho sykes]

For 1280x1024 the HD4850 512MB will be an EXTREME overkill for most games!

Unfortunately I'm not from the US..

I meant you should ask one of your "college mates" if he has been through MS's offer and if he was accepted. This will give you an idea if the college would be the obstacle in this process if any..
-------------------
About the prices.. I'm not very impressed by HD5800 results as the HD5850 is only a bit faster than GTX285 but it's 2x faster than HD4870! This means if nVidia made the GTX380 2x+ faster than GTX285 then we're looking at a clear loser.. Maybe except for DX11 support, EyeFinity and such.
I'm still seeing ATI lowering their HD4800 prices to get rid of the stock or keeping only the HD4800 family and making it the price of entry-level cards.. At least this is how i look at it. Still when nVidia releases their GTX300 series they'll most likely make it for the $400+ market without worrying about price/perf. ratio as for them a GTX375 beating a HD5870 by a 1% margin in some games means it worth another $50 price premium .

I'm waiting for your list and results and I don't think I'm going to finish mine before Nov. because some parts need to be brought from outside my country.. I'll keep you updated.. part by part :lol:

Medo

 

[ti1706]

EXTREME, huh?

Well, my monitor is under average... but I'd like the security of knowing I can have a glitch free gaming experience, upgradeable when I please.

You make a good argument regarding ATI and nVidia... I can see it happening like that.

... so it seems my new question is... how far could I cut back on the gpu, without running the risk of any glitching and retaining the ability to run my games on the highest settings?

I doubt my acquaintances have tried it. Most of them simply buy their computers from Best Buy, Dell.com, and the like.

Out of curiousity, would it be rude of me to ask where you (Medo) are from?
My guess is Britain (or England, as it is called where I live).
Feel free to decline if you'd rather not say.

EDIT: I should add that my classmates do not upgrade their computers very often, either. (No one has tried the offer)

 

[psycho sykes]

I certainly hope it's happening like that (still we can hope for better ). If that's the case i may try and make a big feast!! (Um.. Second thought.. For myself :lol: )
-----------
The HD4850 1GB will be plenty enough and another HD4850 down the road (for like $50 when time comes and you actually need to upgrade) would make a system beating the GTX275! But bear in mind the power requirements and heat.
-----------
Not at all! I'm from Egypt .
-----------
Edit | Well then.. Be the first..

 

[ti1706]

Hmm... well, I was only off by a continent, or so....

Humor aside, thanks for the clarification.

... so then, the XFX 1gb 4850 is the way to go, even when the Sapphire 512 mb 4870 is only a few dollars more?

650 watts (current psu choice) is plenty for either... correct? I can't foresee one card using anymore than that.
... but what of heat? Should I not purchase the 4870 without a proper cooler?

Two cards, however (I presume you meant this), will require a higher level of power, and a definitely non-stock cooler.

EDIT: I should use more "smilies"... there's one to start with.

 

[psycho sykes]

Edit | Yes! give me your address I'm coming in half an hour!! (by motor-feet :lol: ) (I don't mean anything!)
-----------
I think someone else should comment about HD4850 1GB vs HD4870 512MB (the most important of them is you).
-----------
According to Carsair's website, A HX520 is more than enough for a system using i7/1366, 2 HD4850s and 1 HDD Also the TX650 is listed as recommended for such a setup. So i think (for sure!) that a 650W PSU is enough for HD4850 CF considering that wattage calculation tools over-estimate the requirements leaving enough space for unexpected upgrades.
-----------
Almost all non-reference brands (XFX is a big one of them) use better cooling than "reference" design. And a HD4870 won't generate that much heat in a good condition, Specially if it uses an aftermarket cooler (XFX's model uses one).
Yes, I meant 2 cards regarding high power requirements and cooling needs.
-----------
Edit | I used to use them often but someone here advised me not to.. Still I use them sometimes ..

 

[ti1706]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my obviously repetitive (Hah.) questions.
I just like to be certain.

Now, then, I'm going to re-post the build.

Case and PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.245593
CPU and Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.246589
DVD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106332
OS and HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.259577.22-152-181
RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277
GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150351

This build comes to $830.55 w/shipping, a little over-budget, but I can turn off a few lights, and make it up.
(Also, one the few ways to stay under budget is to combo the RAM with a MSI gpu, a brand that was not well-spoken of.)
Hopefully, Microsoft will grant a student discount on Win7 to me... and if that happens, I'll revise the build with the following:

CPU and Mobo (unless I find a better mobo/cpu combo)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.246586
Potentially, I might also bundle the RAM (CPU/MB/RAM combo).

Well, that wraps it up.
Any advice, criticisms (other than the length of the thread, heh....), comments?

 

[ti1706]

Sound advice... I've found that being considered serious, and well-informed, doesn't often mix with "smilies".
Still, there's no point in taking the fun out of them.

EDIT: @Medo.

 

[psycho sykes]

Here's a better deal http://secure.newegg.com/Shopping/AddToCart.aspx?Submit=ADD&ItemList=Combo.259878 :lol:
It's a very good motherboard with a better combo.

 

[ti1706]

Looks good, and keeps the build under budget... if the discount is accessible, I'll definitely consider it.
Other than my potential upgrades, the build is solid, then?

... and on a last note (logging out in a minute, or so), how long can I afford to wait, before I run the risk of losing these discounts?

 

[ti1706]

Logging out, now.

Thanks, again, for all the help, Medo.

... and, of course, Good luck with your parts!

 

[psycho sykes]

You can't!! But in time you find if you're qualified for MS's discount other deals should be available. Including another $10 or so more MIRs for GPUs. And maybe another $5 for DDR3 Ram prices..
I think the build is very good except that I don't like UD2 mobo and hopefully they'll grant you the discount.
Another thing.. How about this Ram http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275&cm_re=ddr3_4gb_1333_p55-_-20-231-275-_-Product It's better in timings and the FreQ can be raised easier than timing and latencies. Also this Asus main-board has a feature called CPU level-up which will OC your CPU to 3.06 w/o the need to know how to OC or to mess with the BIOS and your Ram will be pushed to the next step automatically (Ram: 1066>1333>1600~) | (CPU: 2.66>2.93>3.06~)

Medo

 

[overshocks]

For 1280x1024 the HD4850 512MB will be an EXTREME overkill for most games!

Unfortunately I'm not from the US..

I meant you should ask one of your "college mates" if he has been through MS's offer and if he was accepted. This will give you an idea if the college would be the obstacle in this process if any..
-------------------
About the prices.. I'm not very impressed by HD5800 results as the HD5850 is only a bit faster than GTX285 but it's 2x faster than HD4870! This means if nVidia made the GTX380 2x+ faster than GTX285 then we're looking at a clear loser.. Maybe except for DX11 support, EyeFinity and such.
I'm still seeing ATI lowering their HD4800 prices to get rid of the stock or keeping only the HD4800 family and making it the price of entry-level cards.. At least this is how i look at it. Still when nVidia releases their GTX300 series they'll most likely make it for the $400+ market without worrying about price/perf. ratio as for them a GTX375 beating a HD5870 by a 1% margin in some games means it worth another $50 price premium .

I'm waiting for your list and results and I don't think I'm going to finish mine before Nov. because some parts need to be brought from outside my country.. I'll keep you updated.. part by part :lol:

Medo

where did you get that info about 5000 cards and the gtx 380..gtx 375..
link me.

 

[psycho sykes]

I only calculate (and presume) them.. However I'll see if i can find any "semi-confirmed" info about GTX300. Maybe they'll get me a medal if i succeed :lol: .
For HD5800 Info see this biggest proof one can get!!.

 

[overshocks]

I only calculate them.. However I'll see if i can find any "semi-confirmed" info about GTX300. Maybe they'll get me a medal if i succeed.
For HD5800 Info see this

That means the above paragraph you wrote was ALL BUNK quoting some words now.
"Still when nVidia releases their GTX300 series they'll most likely make it for the $400+ market without worrying about price/perf. ratio as for them a GTX375 beating a HD5870 by a 1% margin in some games means it worth another $50 price premium"

funny how you made up this. gtx375>hd5870? we'll see about that.
lastly, it was a good point that you mentioned eyefinity, because amd now opened up a new market which nvidia does not have.

 

[psycho sykes]

The only information available about GTX385 is that it'll like:
512 SP
512 Bit, GDDR5, 2GB
2.7+TFlops.
And such..
And I didn't "That means the above paragraph you wrote was ALL BUNK quoting some words now. " do that! (writing bunks and quoting some words) I followed what happened with HD4800 and GTX200 launch.. Did ATI have something to compete with GTX285?? I don't think so! Did ATI has something to do REAL competition with GTX295.. NO! nVidia's GTX295 went past ATI's HD4870X2.. Still I'm currently praying that ATI win this time!