[SOLVED] Suggestion on cpu

[kostask5]

Which is the better choice for cpu i7 9700 or 8700 and best mobos for them not very expensive ones.

 

[Darkbreeze]

What is the system going to be used for?

What graphics card?

Do you already have DDR4 memory?

Tentatively, I'd say this is the better option because the 9700, while it has two more cores, is much more expensive and will require a significantly better motherboard, which also costs more, than the 8700 will.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor ($309.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: ASRock Z390 Pro4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($118.89 @ OutletPC)
Total: $428.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-09-01 16:44 EDT-0400

 

[clutchc]

The 9-series is a generation newer. And as a result, about 8-10% faster overall. Even more-so in multi-core (4 thread+) speed.

 

[kostask5]

i have ddr3 memory and an i7 4790 so i got to upgrade everything and i have a gtx 980 which im thinking if i should hold off upgrading or i should change to an rtx 2070 super now

 

[Darkbreeze]

What resolution is your monitor?

Are you currently having problems gaming or just wanting to upgrade, because you want a little more out of it?

 

[mdd1963]

The 9700 is not hyperthreaded, but, it's 8 cores/8 threads do quite well in most general use and gaming scenarios, outdoing the 8700/8700K in most benchmarks, regardless of the thread deficit....(true cores count mover over hyperthreads!)

 

[Karadjgne]

8700 and 9700 are both CoffeeLake cpus, the 9700 isn't a refresh like the i9 9700k.

The i7 9700 is basically the same as the 8700, except has 2 additional cores and an extra 100MHz on turbo, which can give it a considerable advantage.

In neither case is the stock cooler sufficient, as both cpus will hit over 100w usage, even at a 65w TDP.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Geez, thanks guys for the lessons in architecture. Pretty sure we have ground to cover before we worry about selecting a CPU though. Like, what it's going to be used for. Based on that information, we might find that the use case doesn't even require a top shelf CPU and motherboard. Especially since it was specifically mentioned that they don't want a "very expensive one".

 

[Karadjgne]

Then I'd recommend either a Ryzen platform or Intel i5-9400f if budget is a real concern as it'll perform roughly equitable to the 8700, or slightly better depending.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, depending on where they live, the 3600 or even the 3400G, or 9400F, might be very good options.

 

[kostask5]

What resolution is your monitor?

Are you currently having problems gaming or just wanting to upgrade, because you want a little more out of it?

I play on 1080p 144hz but i want a bit more cause i cant reach 144 fps in most games

 

[kostask5]

Geez, thanks guys for the lessons in architecture. Pretty sure we have ground to cover before we worry about selecting a CPU though. Like, what it's going to be used for. Based on that information, we might find that the use case doesn't even require a top shelf CPU and motherboard. Especially since it was specifically mentioned that they don't want a "very expensive one".

I mostly want to play all the upcoming top games like modern warfare bordrrlands cyberpunk and i will propably need it for animation i can put the money for a cpu but i want an inexpensive mobo cause i dont like spending much money on the mobo.I thought the i7 8700 and i7 9700 should be sufficient for the upcoming years if there is something thats better or has a better price/performance i would definetely consideri just want to save some money from the mobo cause i got to upgrade ram and gpu too

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, let me give you some backstory on cheap motherboards. A cheap motherboard is sometimes an ok choice if you are choosing to go with a middling or low end processor, but it is rarely a good choice for a top shelf processor for a variety of reasons.

For one, if you buy a very expensive high end processor you are probably going to want that processor to remain in use for as long as possible. That is MUCH less likely to happen with a cheap motherboard, because, they are cheap. They are not built to the same standards as higher end motherboards. They will have less exacting assembly quality. They will use lower quality components such as controllers, capacitors, chokes and other materials used to assemble the motherboard. They will also tend to lack some features found on more expensive boards such as a good quantity of fan headers (Depends how cheap the board actually is. Not all cheap boards lack adequate fan headers but some do), they also tend to have fewer and inferior power phases and VRM components and if you go looking in some detail you'll find that there can be pretty significant differences between a cheap set of components and a good quality set of components when it comes to the part of your motherboard that handles all of the power delivery.

Not JUST in the number of power phases, but in the actual design and materials of the components themselves. There are high quality six phase VRM designs that can handle a given TDP or load better than some that advertise having 8 phases, but cheap out on the quality of those 8 phases in order to bring the board's cost down into the budget range. This is not a factor that ONLY affects overclockers. Most high end CPUs have aggressive boost profiles and a lot of cores, and a weak or poor quality VRM design can absolutely have an affect on stability both in terms of the CPUs performance, especially long session sustained performance, and memory performance and capability/compatibility as well. Clean power and plenty of it generally means things are more stable. More stable means fewer problems for you, even if you could care less about the details or think, wrongly, like most people, that the motherboard does not affect performance. The motherboard can have a greater affect on performance than just about any other component, or rather, it can have a tremendous effect on a LACK of performance if your 8/16 CPU is throttling, overheating or is unstable because the power delivery and design of the board cannot handle the power design of the parts including memory which is an area where a good many people find themselves kicking their own asses because they purchased high speed memory kits only to find that the cheap board they bought has trouble running the kit or just plain won't without reducing the memory speed or loosening up the timings.

Another VERY important consideration, in my opinion, is getting a board that has a Q-code LED display. It is MUCH easier to find and fix problems when you have a distinct error code to reference than it is trying to do so based on beeps from a system speaker, which by the way, practically no budget boards are going to include and you'll have to purchase separately these days anyway. Only another couple of bucks, but it begins to add up. Which takes us back to fan headers, because if you plan to run a good few number of fans, and don't have enough available fan headers, you may end up having to also buy fan cable splitters or a third party fan hub/controller. An additional cost. The money you saved on a cheap board is beginning to not look like such a bargain now.

That is not to say that you have to buy an elite, high end motherboard. There are very good motherboards in the middle of the pack that have most or all of the same high quality components used on the higher end boards, but maybe just lack some of the ACTUALLY unnecessary things like "gaming" features, dual LAN, Wi-Fi, reset CMOS buttons onboard, BIOS flashback or RGB lighting.

My advice, don't buy a cheap board. Also, don't buy a very expensive board, unless you are specifically wanting some of those additional features. Buy a board that has good reviews and is in the middle ground so that you get solid performance while shedding unnecessary features and costs.

It doesn't do you much good to buy a 400 dollar CPU and put it in a 70 dollar motherboard, just to find out that you have thermal, throttling or memory issues, among other potential problems that can happen with less expensive boards.

All of that doesn't even factor in the concept that while most motherboards have similar warranties, cheaper boards are the ones most likely to have a NEED to use those warranties. That can be a major inconvenience, especially if it is your only system. It's an added expense as well because you're probably going to have to pay the shipping TO the manufacturer. They'll usually foot the bill to send it back to you, but they won't generally pay to have it shipped TO them. Also, a cheap board will absolutely not last as long in general as a higher quality board, so in three or four years, when the rest of your system is fine still but the motherboard craps out, and it will, you are going to be stuck in a situation where you have to once again upgrade the whole platform even though the motherboard is the only thing not working, because by then the cost of getting a replacement will be as much as half the cost of simply upgrading to something else especially if it's on a platform that no longer supports that socket and for Intel, that seem to be every other generation, so every two years or so, anymore. Finding a new motherboard three years or more after the platform was released rarely ever results in being able to find anything other than used boards, which are risky, because people have hoarded all the new old stock waiting for guys like you who are desperate to not have to upgrade the whole platform again, and they will squeeze a premium out of you for them because the manufacturers stop making them as soon as new generation is released in most cases.

 

[kostask5]

Well, let me give you some backstory on cheap motherboards. A cheap motherboard is sometimes an ok choice if you are choosing to go with a middling or low end processor, but it is rarely a good choice for a top shelf processor for a variety of reasons.

For one, if you buy a very expensive high end processor you are probably going to want that processor to remain in use for as long as possible. That is MUCH less likely to happen with a cheap motherboard, because, they are cheap. They are not built to the same standards as higher end motherboards. They will have less exacting assembly quality. They will use lower quality components such as controllers, capacitors, chokes and other materials used to assemble the motherboard. They will also tend to lack some features found on more expensive boards such as a good quantity of fan headers (Depends how cheap the board actually is. Not all cheap boards lack adequate fan headers but some do), they also tend to have fewer and inferior power phases and VRM components and if you go looking in some detail you'll find that there can be pretty significant differences between a cheap set of components and a good quality set of components when it comes to the part of your motherboard that handles all of the power delivery.

Not JUST in the number of power phases, but in the actual design and materials of the components themselves. There are high quality six phase VRM designs that can handle a given TDP or load better than some that advertise having 8 phases, but cheap out on the quality of those 8 phases in order to bring the board's cost down into the budget range. This is not a factor that ONLY affects overclockers. Most high end CPUs have aggressive boost profiles and a lot of cores, and a weak or poor quality VRM design can absolutely have an affect on stability both in terms of the CPUs performance, especially long session sustained performance, and memory performance and capability/compatibility as well. Clean power and plenty of it generally means things are more stable. More stable means fewer problems for you, even if you could care less about the details or think, wrongly, like most people, that the motherboard does not affect performance. The motherboard can have a greater affect on performance than just about any other component, or rather, it can have a tremendous effect on a LACK of performance if your 8/16 CPU is throttling, overheating or is unstable because the power delivery and design of the board cannot handle the power design of the parts including memory which is an area where a good many people find themselves kicking their own asses because they purchased high speed memory kits only to find that the cheap board they bought has trouble running the kit or just plain won't without reducing the memory speed or loosening up the timings.

Another VERY important consideration, in my opinion, is getting a board that has a Q-code LED display. It is MUCH easier to find and fix problems when you have a distinct error code to reference than it is trying to do so based on beeps from a system speaker, which by the way, practically no budget boards are going to include and you'll have to purchase separately these days anyway. Only another couple of bucks, but it begins to add up. Which takes us back to fan headers, because if you plan to run a good few number of fans, and don't have enough available fan headers, you may end up having to also buy fan cable splitters or a third party fan hub/controller. An additional cost. The money you saved on a cheap board is beginning to not look like such a bargain now.

That is not to say that you have to buy an elite, high end motherboard. There are very good motherboards in the middle of the pack that have most or all of the same high quality components used on the higher end boards, but maybe just lack some of the ACTUALLY unnecessary things like "gaming" features, dual LAN, Wi-Fi, reset CMOS buttons onboard, BIOS flashback or RGB lighting.

My advice, don't buy a cheap board. Also, don't buy a very expensive board, unless you are specifically wanting some of those additional features. Buy a board that has good reviews and is in the middle ground so that you get solid performance while shedding unnecessary features and costs.

It doesn't do you much good to buy a 400 dollar CPU and put it in a 70 dollar motherboard, just to find out that you have thermal, throttling or memory issues, among other potential problems that can happen with less expensive boards.

All of that doesn't even factor in the concept that while most motherboards have similar warranties, cheaper boards are the ones most likely to have a NEED to use those warranties. That can be a major inconvenience, especially if it is your only system. It's an added expense as well because you're probably going to have to pay the shipping TO the manufacturer. They'll usually foot the bill to send it back to you, but they won't generally pay to have it shipped TO them. Also, a cheap board will absolutely not last as long in general as a higher quality board, so in three or four years, when the rest of your system is fine still but the motherboard craps out, and it will, you are going to be stuck in a situation where you have to once again upgrade the whole platform even though the motherboard is the only thing not working, because by then the cost of getting a replacement will be as much as half the cost of simply upgrading to something else especially if it's on a platform that no longer supports that socket and for Intel, that seem to be every other generation, so every two years or so, anymore. Finding a new motherboard three years or more after the platform was released rarely ever results in being able to find anything other than used boards, which are risky, because people have hoarded all the new old stock waiting for guys like you who are desperate to not have to upgrade the whole platform again, and they will squeeze a premium out of you for them because the manufacturers stop making them as soon as new generation is released in most cases.

I see so would u say around 100 with 140 euros are the best price to performance mobos?And would u have anything particular in mind? Like how about this one gigabyte z370p D3(rev1.0)Is it a quality one?Thn for the help.

 

[kostask5]

8700 and 9700 are both CoffeeLake cpus, the 9700 isn't a refresh like the i9 9700k.

The i7 9700 is basically the same as the 8700, except has 2 additional cores and an extra 100MHz on turbo, which can give it a considerable advantage.

In neither case is the stock cooler sufficient, as both cpus will hit over 100w usage, even at a 65w TDP.

Isnt 9700k coffe lake too?What do u mean by refresh?

 

[Darkbreeze]

The 9700 is not Refresh. It is original Coffee lake.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-9700-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz.html

The 9700k IS Refresh.

What country are you actually in? Makes a difference on what's available and pricing.

 

[kostask5]

The 9700 is not Refresh. It is original Coffee lake.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-9700-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz.html

The 9700k IS Refresh.

What country are you actually in? Makes a difference on what's available and pricing.

Im from greece i7 9700k 380€ 9700 341€ 8700 311€ im also considering 3600 ryzen at 211€