Suggestions for Undead Encounter?

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Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with the
average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
vampires/mummies/liches?
 
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"Ray Reynolds" <reymonrey@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with
the
> average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
> and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
> group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
> type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
> vampires/mummies/liches?

Well, wights, wraiths and shadows all spring to mind. Nice selection of
these are immune to ordinary weapons (if my memory serves me well), which'd
make them all the more annoying to a physical-combat orientated party.
Either that or just beef up the stat's and go for ogre skeletons/zombies, or
similarly enlarged (and thus harder) variants,

Ncik.
 
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"Nick Reed" <ncik@another.com> wrote in message
news:8f7e7$41127331$d925e721$12136@nf1.news-service-com...
> "Ray Reynolds" <reymonrey@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> > Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with
> the
> > average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief,
cleric
> > and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear
the
> > group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest
a
> > type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies
and
> > vampires/mummies/liches?
>
> Well, wights, wraiths and shadows all spring to mind. Nice selection of
> these are immune to ordinary weapons (if my memory serves me well),
which'd
> make them all the more annoying to a physical-combat orientated party.
> Either that or just beef up the stat's and go for ogre skeletons/zombies,
or
> similarly enlarged (and thus harder) variants,

A bit outside of this are Shadows - in a dark room they can be a real
challenge. I like to pair up a necromancer with lesser undeads to make
things more challenging.

Frank
 
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How about you just take a 'regular' monster or caracter be enchanted with
some magic that makes them undead? Ok, it is cheesy, but saves a lot of
work.

In my bag of holding I still have a periapt of foul rotting, interested?
 
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"NeaZyneave" <schrijfmemaar@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:274b8c8b7ec524aa6ead9a4bfcb2ec33@localhost.talkaboutgaming.com...
> How about you just take a 'regular' monster or caracter be enchanted with
> some magic that makes them undead? Ok, it is cheesy, but saves a lot of
> work.
>
> In my bag of holding I still have a periapt of foul rotting, interested?
>

I think I'll pass on that one NeaZyneave, but thanks for the offer. ;-)

Thanks for the suggestions, I was just drawing a blank and couldn't think.
Actually I want to introduce a series of undead creatures throughout the
entire campaign that scale in power with the PCs. Untilmately (if they make
it that far), they'll have to confront a Titian-turned-lich.
 
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sounds a bit the the 'Kreen' I need to kill in my game. He is such a ^%$$%
strong guy, I fear him.

What kind of setting do you play in, maybe that will help me and other
people to come up with ideas.

btw; I did find a good use of sourvereign glue... I glued myself to a
ancient red dragon that I had to kill. It helped!
 
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Well that was helpfull ;)

Did you consider the fact that suggestions we offer here could also be
read by your group?
 
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> Did you consider the fact that suggestions we offer here could also be
> read by your group?

Yes I have, that's one reason I am being so evassive. ;-)
 
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In article <abWdnWxGb4MEq4_cRVn-iA@comcast.com>, reymonrey@comcast.net wrote:

>Hello all. I have a group of 7 PCs, ranging from 2nd to 6th level with the
>average being 4.2 levels. It is warrior heavy, with only 1 thief, cleric
>and mage. I need to introduce some undead into my campaign, but fear the
>group will make quick work of skeletons and zombies. Can anyone suggest a
>type of undead that is in the no-man's land between skeletons/zombies and
>vampires/mummies/liches?

What's wrong with ghouls, ghasts, and shadows?

--
======================================================================
ISLAM: Winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb at a time.
 
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Ghouls are always good for a laugh.

Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
undead will be a problem to DM

i.e. they will either get blasted by tuning or they will need to be so
strong that they could be a serious threat to total party destruction
if the cleric fails a turn roll.

still, it makes for tense encounters..

I'm having current fun in a campaign playing a non combat, but high CHA
Priest of Pelor.. with the sun domain, and the feats extra turning and
greater turning I was blasting the ghouls drom 2nd lev! When I get the
Radiant Servant PrC things should be even more undead-blasting-tastic
 
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"Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
undead will be a problem to DM "

"Not if they come in waves.. "

Yes. This is one of the easiest ways to accomplish the goal of widdling
down party resources and forcing the players to think about
conservation.

The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.

The ability to apply the skeleton template to any race and then apply
some class levels on top of that is something you should not pass up.
There are endless combinations and flavors of encounter you can
generate this way. Mix it up a bit by adding in other templates... what
about a skeleton that's literally "from hell"? Just add the fiendish
template on top of the skeleton template and a few levels of fighter or
barbarian for a nice "undead footsoldier of the damned".

If you don't use the flexibility of the 3.5 system, you're just playing
a slightly more complicated 2nd edition. 3.5 is all about creating your
OWN encounters and customizing everything about them to the flavor of
your campaign.
 
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J.O. Aho wrote:

> If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from

> turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
have
> been Thay?

There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.

> Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group
would have to
> use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on
that the
> priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.

Ah... what? Is this some special exception rule I've never heard of
(ok, I'm an old 1e hack, so I'll admit I could have missed it)? This
sounds really wrong. If the fighter takes out an opponent on his own,
you don't give the XP to just the one player. It is assumed that each
player brings their own strengths to the combat, and while the cleric
might turn some undead in this combat, the wizard might fireball the
next group down before they have a chance to close, and a lucky crit
from the ranger's magic bow might take out the next creature in short
order.

Experience should be evenly distributed (not counting level differences
and XP penalties for multiclass) unless the party is physically
seperated for an encounter.
 
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"Murf" wrote
>
> Ghouls are always good for a laugh.
>
> Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM

Not if they come in waves..



John
 
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<AaronJSherman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111430278.095907.19110@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
> want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
> few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
> shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.

Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a somewhat
different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the forest
and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).

I'm going to do basically the same thing again, except this time, it will be
a lone kobold who jumps out in front of them, and he's actually part of a
kobold adventuring party of sorts(ie higher levels of kobolds), with his
friends waiting in the wings. He'll do the "gimme yer gold" bit, and they
will laugh and probably just tell the thing to ah heck off before they swat
it, at which point the kobolds will attack from an ambush position. They'll
just assume they can mow through them, so they'll do attack splitting and
stuff like that, but they won't realize until it's too late that this is
basically an NPC party like the PC's themselves.

That skeleton idea is good too, I like it. I think I'm going to implement
it at a "long abandoned monk cloister" setting. A bunch of long dead monk
skeletons of varying levels, damn, that would be a tough fight, even without
their special abilities!

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
 
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Murf wrote:
> Ghouls are always good for a laugh.
>
> Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM

If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it have
been Thay?

Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group would have to
use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on that the
priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.


//Aho
 
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ajs@ajs.com wrote:
> J.O. Aho wrote:

>>If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
>>turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
>> have been Thay?
> There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.

No feats in AD&D.


>>Throw in a couple of zombies that has it cast on, then the group
>>would have to
>>use their arm strength to solve the problem instead of relaiing on
>>that the
>>priest earns 200xp and the rest of the group gets none.
>
> Ah... what? Is this some special exception rule I've never heard of
> (ok, I'm an old 1e hack, so I'll admit I could have missed it)? This
> sounds really wrong. If the fighter takes out an opponent on his own,
> you don't give the XP to just the one player.

At least I do class that creatures that are easilly turned, are classed as
creatures that don't present a real threat, with other words 0XP for the whole
group. The priest will still get XP forusing a granted power, which is only
100XP (just messed it up with rouges who get the 200XP).


//Aho
 
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 00:06:56 +0100, "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> scribed
into the ether:

>ajs@ajs.com wrote:
>> J.O. Aho wrote:
>
>>>If I don't remember all to wrong, you have the spell "protection from
>>>turning", can't not remember in which module I have seen it, could it
>>> have been Thay?
>> There's also simply the Turn Resistance feat.
>
>No feats in AD&D.

It's not a feat, but there are plenty of undead that are classified as
more-difficult-to-turn than their HD would indicate. Just bump them up a
rank on the turn chart.
 
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On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:33:41 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a somewhat
> different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
> predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the forest
> and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
> MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
> party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).

Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
 
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"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote in message
news:ng1v31ppgbpi1s0i48b9r39dmcbun55eu1@4ax.com...
> > predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of the
forest
> > and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you all!
> > MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked the
> > party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed, dontchaknowit).
>
> Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
> the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.

The encounter was more for a humorous interlude, rather than for any kind of
reality. It was amusing to have the PCs get confronted by a lone kobold,
demanding their money.

It was a throwaway encounter for levity, nothing more. Perhaps it would
have been more accurate to say "THIS kobold wasn't the brightest spark".

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
 
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AaronJSherman@gmail.com wrote:
> "Still, if the cleric in the party is lev 6 and has a half decent
CHA,
> undead will be a problem to DM "
>
> "Not if they come in waves.. "
>
> Yes. This is one of the easiest ways to accomplish the goal of
widdling
> down party resources and forcing the players to think about
> conservation.
>
> The original question also comes with another easy answer... if you
> want to surprise your party, throw some skeletons at them that have a
> few levels of fighter... or monk! Monk skeletons are a nice little
> shock to the system (literally and figuratively) for any party.
>
> The ability to apply the skeleton template to any race and then apply
> some class levels on top of that is something you should not pass up.
> There are endless combinations and flavors of encounter you can
> generate this way. Mix it up a bit by adding in other templates...
what
> about a skeleton that's literally "from hell"? Just add the fiendish
> template on top of the skeleton template and a few levels of fighter
or
> barbarian for a nice "undead footsoldier of the damned".
>

If the person who solicited advice hasn't checked it out, they might
want to look at Libris Mortis at their local library from interloan. I
own it and found it to be a pretty damn good book for idea mining. And
it throws some pretty unconventional monsters and spells from
necromancy into the mix. I'm seriously considering running a
necromancer with the necrotic cyst spells. They're simply vile and
disgusting.

> If you don't use the flexibility of the 3.5 system, you're just
playing
> a slightly more complicated 2nd edition. 3.5 is all about creating
your
> OWN encounters and customizing everything about them to the flavor of
> your campaign.
 
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Rupert Boleyn wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:33:41 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
> <autockr@comcast.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
> > Hehe, I was already planning to do this with our party in a
somewhat
> > different manner. You see, we play 2E, where humanoids have fairly
> > predictable statistics. A while ago, a lone kobold jumped out of
the forest
> > and threatened the party "Give me all your gold or I'll kill you
all!
> > MUAHAHA!!" They laughed and dispatched the guy after he attacked
the
> > party(kobolds not being the sharpest tool in the shed,
dontchaknowit).
>
> Would a human have done that? If not, why would a kobold? They have
> the same intelligence as humans in A/D&D.
>

Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I kinda
like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one waiting
in the wings to make it more believable. Kobold does it, attacks, and
his weak allies join in thinking numbers are on their side and make the
last mistake they'll ever make. I've had a couple weak bandit gangs
(level 1 warriors with level 2 fighter captain/level 1 fighter aide de
camp) attack mid level parties near 8-11 in the wilderness because I
would think it sometimes would happen. Not to mention that sometimes
throwing these easy encounters at them shows real character growth in
the world at large because at 1-2 level they know they'd be fighting
for their lives whereas level dependant DR encounters only would make
characters wonder what exactly is the point of leveling up if everyone
is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the bandits
posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.
 
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J.O. Aho wrote:
> Rump Ranger wrote:
>
> > But since you're an old 1E hack, maybe you'd appreciate this
reference.
> > The DM could use the most *lame* creature type ever made:
> > psuedo-undead. Gygax had to be high or worn out when he made that
one
> > up.
>
> As I never played 1E (only old D&D and AD&D2), so could you shortly
descibe
> thise psuedo-undead, could be fun to scare the PCs with something
that don't
> work as thought.
>

My old Monster Manual II from the 1E days is packed away somewhere.
After I got fed up with 2E, I jetisoned pretty much all 1E/2E rules and
came back when 3E came out. So my memory is not perfect on exact
stats, but psuedo-undead are in fact basically living humanoids who
*appear* as undead in all respects but aren't. The only thing which
makes them special is that adventurers will fear they are the real
deal. Looking at ENWorld, it looks like they converted it to 3E:

http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/template/pseudo-undead.htm

All that said, what makes this lame concept so *totally stupid* is that
they're actually weaker than the undead they mimic and the characters
will automatically assume it's the real deal and whoomp 'em. Even
attempting to turn and fail might convince them to use martial/magical
might instead. It is possible the characters see a "psuedo-vampire" or
ghost and run, but then again in 3E, vampires and ghosts can start
appearing at pretty low levels since they're templates.

> I have used a quite cool "undead" in an adventure for low level PCs,
it's from
> a Dragon magazine (don't recal the number). The PCs meets a skeleton
that the
> priest can't turn (even if the preist should be able), the funny
thing is that
> there is a wizard who uses unseen servants to move a skeleton, as if
it was a
> undead. Add a few rouges and/or fighters to that and you can lay an
ambush.
>

Yes, that is indeed a pretty slick idea. If your players don't know
about it, they won't see it coming unless they detected magic on it or
had a wizard doing recon from above or some other divination prepared,
but in 3E some players might assume it's an advanced or templated one.
In 3E, the DM can do some truly diabolical things without going all ad
hoc.
 
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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> "Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1111706320.689982.93890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I
kinda
> > like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one
waiting
> > in the wings to make it more believable.
>
> The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path
of the
> PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor
is in
> the irony, guys, sheesh.
>

Dude, I got it. You got a chuckle out of me when I read it and I was
responding more to Rupert. The idea of a 1d4 hp kobold assuming he's
able take on a party of high level adventurers is actually funny
because it's *absurd* rather than ironic.

> In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
archers
> and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing
as last
> time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT
A
> TICK!!
>

If they're mature enough and don't masterbate on their character
sheets, chances are they'll enjoy it.

> > is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the
bandits
> > posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
> > experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
> > uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.
>
> Yep, precisely. A band of truly effective kobolds would DEFINITELY
be a
> shocker for the party.
>
 
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"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111706320.689982.93890@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe his kobold was retarded according to kobold standards. I kinda
> like his idea, but maybe he should have more than a single one waiting
> in the wings to make it more believable.

The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path of the
PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor is in
the irony, guys, sheesh.

In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of archers
and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as last
time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
TICK!!

> is doing so at the same rate they are. Needless to say, the bandits
> posed no threat and the party quickly dispatched them. Using that
> experience, transfer it to another similar situation but use the
> uber-badass kobolds to give them a shock.

Yep, precisely. A band of truly effective kobolds would DEFINITELY be a
shocker for the party.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
 
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Rump Ranger wrote:

> But since you're an old 1E hack, maybe you'd appreciate this reference.
> The DM could use the most *lame* creature type ever made:
> psuedo-undead. Gygax had to be high or worn out when he made that one
> up.

As I never played 1E (only old D&D and AD&D2), so could you shortly descibe
thise psuedo-undead, could be fun to scare the PCs with something that don't
work as thought.

I have used a quite cool "undead" in an adventure for low level PCs, it's from
a Dragon magazine (don't recal the number). The PCs meets a skeleton that the
priest can't turn (even if the preist should be able), the funny thing is that
there is a wizard who uses unseen servants to move a skeleton, as if it was a
undead. Add a few rouges and/or fighters to that and you can lay an ambush.


//Aho