Superman vs. Garou!?

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Could a Garou's teeth and claws cut Superman's invunerable skin? Would
Superman's punches count as Aggravated Damage, Lethal or just a whole
lot of Bashing? Would Rage-induced Multiple Actions allow the Garou to
match Super-speed? Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of
Steel?

Inquiring minds want to know!!

Dex^^
 
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Hand-of-Omega wrote:
> Could a Garou's teeth and claws cut Superman's invunerable skin?
Would
> Superman's punches count as Aggravated Damage, Lethal or just a whole
> lot of Bashing? Would Rage-induced Multiple Actions allow the Garou
to
> match Super-speed? Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of
> Steel?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know!!
>
> Dex^^


Against a single Garou, I think Superman would win, especially if he
could stay out of reach and use heat vision to fry it to a crisp.

Superman can fly, forever, without using energy. He could toast whole
packs of Garou without difficulty. If allowed to fly out of reach and
rely on heat vision, Superman could exterminate hundreds of Garou
before the smart and cowardly retreated. THe Garou would probably use
heroic efforts for a lost cause and suffer needless casualties.
Superman would probably press his advantage ruthlessly, given his
smugly self-righteous belief in his own moral infallibility - plus his
years of experience in combat.

I don't doubt for a moment that Superman would kill good guys, because
recently blogs have reminded me that Superman is a jerk. I had not
forgotten, but the reminders didn't hurt:
http://www.nationallampoon.com/supermanisadick/default.asp
http://completewasteoftime.blogs.com/weblog/2005/03/superman_is_a_d.html


Of course, Garou have totems, spells, superior numbers, and access to
the Umbra. I'd be interested to see how that played out. If a number
of highly advanced Garou wizards got onto the Umbra, Superman couldn't
follow them, but they could track him until he was vulnerable.
 

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"Hand-of-Omega" <handofomega@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112594865.778032.222360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Could a Garou's teeth and claws cut Superman's invunerable skin? Would
> Superman's punches count as Aggravated Damage, Lethal or just a whole
> lot of Bashing? Would Rage-induced Multiple Actions allow the Garou to
> match Super-speed? Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of
> Steel?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know!!
>
> Dex^^
>

Can't... resist... can anyone say; "Kryptonite Elemental"?
Yeah, sure, either a *way* specialised & extended Umbral quest to find earth
or radiation spirit, or a Wyrm thing, but I'm sure there'd be one out there
somwhere ;)
 

Adam

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Hand-of-Omega wrote:
> Could a Garou's teeth and claws cut Superman's invunerable skin? Would
> Superman's punches count as Aggravated Damage, Lethal or just a whole
> lot of Bashing? Would Rage-induced Multiple Actions allow the Garou to
> match Super-speed? Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of
> Steel?
>
> Inquiring minds want to know!!
>
> Dex^^
>
Traditionally magic has always been Superman's weakness. Garou on the
other hand are comfterble dealing with spirits and by extension the occult.

I'de give this one to Gaia's fuzzy chainsaws
 
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"Hand-of-Omega" <handofomega@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1112594865.778032.222360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Could a Garou's teeth and claws cut Superman's invunerable skin?

Yes. Superman has proven in the past to be vulnerable to magic, although
given that he has survived being hit by magic on many occasions I'd rule
either that he has an exceptional soak pool, a whole lot of health levels or
both of the above (ie. instead of being disembowled he'd get a small but
dramatic cut).

> Would Superman's punches count as Aggravated Damage, Lethal or just a
> whole lot of Bashing?

It depends on wheather you consider getting hit by a train lethal or
bashing. I'd consider it a bashing attack by somebody with a strength score
above ten dots.

> Would Rage-induced Multiple Actions allow the Garou to match Super-speed?

A high rage garou could probably match super speed, but without some sort of
constant massive rage generating Gift it wouldn't last long.

> Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of Steel?

Rage generating Gifts. Mind altering Gifts. The one that turns humans into
normal wolves.

Overall, a fight between Superman and a bunch of Garou has several
additional factors to consider. Luckily the fact that Superman isn't from
Earth should protect him from the Delirium. In the favor of the Garou is the
fact that Superman has taken a vow not to kill while the Garou normally kill
in battle.

I'd give the first battle to Superman but allow the Garou to escape to the
Umbra. The second battle would up the danger as both sides are better
prepared but I'd still bet on Superman. If things went on for additional
battles the Garou would eventually find tribal elders with the appropriate
Gifts to potentially win the fight. Such a combat would be truly epic as
Superman would probably best be modeled as a pacifist using the rules for an
experienced character from Exalted.

-Essex
 
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I would think the Garou could find the Phantom Zone in the Umbra and just
dump Supes to deal with his various old enemies there.
 
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"Michael Spagnola" <rezcat@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jVv4e.599$go4.432@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>I would think the Garou could find the Phantom Zone in the Umbra and just
> dump Supes to deal with his various old enemies there.

I believe that this would be covered by the part of my post that read "If
things went on for additional battles the Garou would eventually find tribal
elders with the appropriate Gifts to potentially win the fight." Besides
which, how exactly are they supposed to "just dump Supes" into the Phantom
Zone? I am not aware of any commonly know 'Banish to Phantom Zone' Gift or
Rite. In fast, the only rite that I am personally aware of that sends
somebody to a specific location deep within the Umbra is the Rite of Walking
the Black Spiral. That particular Rite requires some time to set up and the
active participation of the victim (ie. you can't be sent there unless you
agree to be sent there).

Also, how exactly do the Garou know about the Phantom Zone? I'm not sure
Superman has gone around advertising this place in the major media outlets.

-Essex
 
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Rip Rock wrote:

> I don't doubt for a moment that Superman would kill good guys, because
> recently blogs have reminded me that Superman is a jerk. I had not
> forgotten, but the reminders didn't hurt:
> http://www.nationallampoon.com/supermanisadick/default.asp
> http://completewasteoftime.blogs.com/weblog/2005/03/superman_is_a_d.html

Hee hee! I was never a Superman fan-- I found the character so
astonishingly DULL that I couldn't even be bothered to DISlike him. But
I have to admit that seeing Superman acting like a cock on the covers of
these comic books was highly amusing.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 
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In the borning days of the third millennium, Richard Clayton wrote:

> Hee hee! I was never a Superman fan-- I found the character so
>astonishingly DULL that I couldn't even be bothered to DISlike him. But
>I have to admit that seeing Superman acting like a cock on the covers of
>these comic books was highly amusing.

In that case, go to http://www.superdickery.com/ for many many many more
wonderful examples and commentary.


--
Brian Merchant (remove 'remove' and 'example' from email)

Puritanism didn't keep the puritans from sinning, it just kept
them from enjoying it.
--Father Joe Breighner
Country Roads
 
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Brian Merchant wrote:
> In the borning days of the third millennium, Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> > Hee hee! I was never a Superman fan-- I found the character so
> >astonishingly DULL that I couldn't even be bothered to DISlike him.
But
> >I have to admit that seeing Superman acting like a cock on the
covers of
> >these comic books was highly amusing.
>
> In that case, go to http://www.superdickery.com/ for many many many
more
> wonderful examples and commentary.
>


Wonder Woman demonstrates bondage:
http://www.superdickery.com/oneshot/1.html

Thanks for the link.

Everyone thinks I'm crazy when I tell them that Wonder Woman was
invented to propagandize bondage. The guy who invented the character
was a serious True Believer in changing society into a utopia by BDSM.
His name was William Moulton Marston IIRC.
 
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Essex wrote:
> "Hand-of-Omega" <handofomega@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1112594865.778032.222360@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

> > Which Gifts would be best used against the Man of Steel?
>
> Rage generating Gifts. Mind altering Gifts. The one that turns humans
into
> normal wolves.
>
I don't remember the latter...but that sounds like something that would
happen to Jimmy Olson!^^

> I'd give the first battle to Superman but allow the Garou to escape
to the
> Umbra. The second battle would up the danger as both sides are better

> prepared but I'd still bet on Superman. If things went on for
additional
> battles the Garou would eventually find tribal elders with the
appropriate
> Gifts to potentially win the fight. Such a combat would be truly epic
as
> Superman would probably best be modeled as a pacifist using the rules
for an
> experienced character from Exalted.
>
>
Surely, you mean *Aberrant*?^^

Thanks for the analysis! There were some other good ideas in this
thread, too, such as a Kyptonite elemental...

Dex,
wondering how Batman would do...
 
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Essex wrote:
Besides
> which, how exactly are they supposed to "just dump Supes" into the
Phantom
> Zone? I am not aware of any commonly know 'Banish to Phantom Zone'
Gift or
> Rite. In fast, the only rite that I am personally aware of that sends

> somebody to a specific location deep within the Umbra is the Rite of
Walking
> the Black Spiral. That particular Rite requires some time to set up
and the
> active participation of the victim (ie. you can't be sent there
unless you
> agree to be sent there).
>
Isn't there a Gift that just unceremoniously throws its target into the
Umbra or Deep Umbra? Now that I think about it, this might be a Nuwisha
Gift...

> Also, how exactly do the Garou know about the Phantom Zone? I'm not
sure
> Superman has gone around advertising this place in the major media
outlets.
>
There is an Oracular Gift that could cover that, I'm sure...

Dex
 
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>> Superman would probably best be modeled as a pacifist using the rules
> for an experienced character from Exalted.
>>
>>
> Surely, you mean *Aberrant*?^^

I know less about Aberrant than I do about Exalted, but doesn't every major
ultra powerful character from Aberrant also have some very nasty corruption
style drawbacks?

> Dex,
> wondering how Batman would do...

Hard to tell. As Batman is a human, he is subject to the Delirium; although
I'd assume that he has a very high willpower, so that may not be a
significant problem. He probably has enough bolas, mace, incendiaries and
explosives in his possession to put some serious hurt on a pack of Garou. He
is also skilled and mobile enough to keep from getting dogpiled. His costume
might hold up to one or two claw attacks before being destroyed (and thereby
buy him enough time to make a tactical retreat). He'd make his way back to
the Bat-Cave, get stitched up by Alfred and return to the scene of the crime
outfitted specifically for a rematch. His extraordinary deductive skills
would almost certainly allow him to analyze the scene for any possible clues
as to the identities or likely location of his opponents. With surprise on
his side his likely use of hit & run tactics would give him a better than
even chance of victory.

Of course, a single Garou with the jam technology gift would send Batman
running a lot sooner and a Black Fury with the appropriate low level gift
could easily track him back to the Bat-Cave in mere hours (not that this is
necessarily a good thing).

-Essex
 
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Essex wrote:
> >> Superman would probably best be modeled as a pacifist using the
rules
> > for an experienced character from Exalted.
> >>
> >>
> > Surely, you mean *Aberrant*?^^
>
> I know less about Aberrant than I do about Exalted, but doesn't every
major
> ultra powerful character from Aberrant also have some very nasty
corruption
> style drawbacks?
>
Yeah, Taint. The most powerful Aberrant sig character, Divis Mal,
didn't suffer from any, so far as I could tell, so there seems to be a
way around that...

> > Dex,
> > wondering how Batman would do...
>
> Hard to tell. As Batman is a human, he is subject to the Delirium;
although
> I'd assume that he has a very high willpower, so that may not be a
> significant problem.

Maybe he's one of those rare humans who're completely unaffected by the
Delirium...(is that also true of Lunacy?)

He probably has enough bolas, mace, incendiaries and
> explosives in his possession to put some serious hurt on a pack of
Garou. He
> is also skilled and mobile enough to keep from getting dogpiled. His
costume
> might hold up to one or two claw attacks before being destroyed (and
thereby
> buy him enough time to make a tactical retreat).

Hm, not sure he's fast enough to dodge a pack of enRaged Garou...But
Uratha don't get multiple actions, right?

He'd make his way back to
> the Bat-Cave, get stitched up by Alfred and return to the scene of
the crime
> outfitted specifically for a rematch. His extraordinary deductive
skills
> would almost certainly allow him to analyze the scene for any
possible clues
> as to the identities or likely location of his opponents. With
surprise on
> his side his likely use of hit & run tactics would give him a better
than
> even chance of victory.
>
> Of course, a single Garou with the jam technology gift would send
Batman
> running a lot sooner and a Black Fury with the appropriate low level
gift
> could easily track him back to the Bat-Cave in mere hours (not that
this is
> necessarily a good thing).

If Bats qualifies as a technomage (even the Hedge magic equivalent)
then he could have the Batcave warded, but otherwise he'd never see
them coming. His biggest weakness might be that his
scientific/detective mindset predisposes him to disregard mystical
possibilities, even tho he knows for a fact that they exist.

Dex
>