sweeping order: Phost

[Guest]

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Hiho

A simple question:

If a assorted row of ships sweep in P-Host, does this happen in order of id
or does the first sweeping ship is chosen by random ?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Moin,
>
> A simple question:
>
> If a assorted row of ships sweep in P-Host, does this happen in order of id
> or does the first sweeping ship is chosen by random ?
>
http://www.phost.de/phost4doc/pcontrol.html#MineSweeping

sais it is done in ID-order. But as far as I remember the ID-order only
holds for one race - the order of races processed is chosen randomly,
but I don't find any reference for that now.

Cheers,
Ingo

--
Ingo von Borstel <newsgroups@planetmaker.de>
http://www.planetmaker.de

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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

hmm so its not absolute in order of id.

thx

"Ingo von Borstel" <newsgroups@planetmaker.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ccgevp$ij0$1@rzcomm2.rz.tu-bs.de...
> Moin,
> >
> > A simple question:
> >
> > If a assorted row of ships sweep in P-Host, does this happen in order of
id
> > or does the first sweeping ship is chosen by random ?
> >
> http://www.phost.de/phost4doc/pcontrol.html#MineSweeping
>
> sais it is done in ID-order. But as far as I remember the ID-order only
> holds for one race - the order of races processed is chosen randomly,
> but I don't find any reference for that now.
>
> Cheers,
> Ingo
>
> --
> Ingo von Borstel <newsgroups@planetmaker.de>
> http://www.planetmaker.de
>
> If you need an urgent reply, replace newsgroups by vgap.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Andreas Huck wrote:
> If a assorted row of ships sweep in P-Host, does this happen in order of id
> or does the first sweeping ship is chosen by random ?

Sweeping (and scooping) happen in absolute Id order.

The "your ships in Id order but intermixed with the other players' Id
order" thing is called "per-player Id order", and the docs explicitly
state when it is used. So far it is only used at a few points (rob, mine
lay, pillage/RGA).

<http://phost.de/phost4doc/pcontrol.html> should be as exact as it can
possibly get, regarding order-of-actions. But I must admit that "Ships
scan for mines and sweep them, in ship Id order." is a bit terse

So far, there are no plans to change the mine sweeping order, because
there are no known fairness problems associated with it ("I can sweep
before you" probably is not a fairness problem like "I lay mines so
you can't lay").


Stefan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> http://www.phost.de/phost4doc/pcontrol.html#MineSweeping
>
> sais it is done in ID-order. But as far as I remember the ID-order only
> holds for one race - the order of races processed is chosen randomly,
> but I don't find any reference for that now.

You remember wrong, sorry 😉. Sweeping is done in ID order, minelaying is
done in _per player_ ID order in the current versions.

- Fela

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Moin,

> Sweeping (and scooping) happen in absolute Id order.

Are they seperately processed or considered at the same time in the host
processing?

> The "your ships in Id order but intermixed with the other players' Id
> order" thing is called "per-player Id order", and the docs explicitly
> state when it is used. So far it is only used at a few points (rob, mine
> lay, pillage/RGA).
Okay, good to know

> So far, there are no plans to change the mine sweeping order, because
> there are no known fairness problems associated with it ("I can sweep
> before you" probably is not a fairness problem like "I lay mines so
> you can't lay").

Just to check my understanding: as far as I understand the docs, mine
scoop is happening at the same stage as mine sweep, so a scenario might
look like this (#045 and #98 in the same place, #495 16LY off that
position, no previous minefields):

Emp ship #045 lais 400 mines

Emp ship #098 will scoop 300 mines
Fed ship #495 cannoc sweep anything as it is outside the (remaining)
field and outside the sweep range as well

on the other hand if IDs were different then it would look like this:

Emp ship #045 lais 400 mines
Fed ship #050 sweeps 400 mines
Emp ship #095 cannot scoop any mines anymore

Are these scenarios correct? If it is predictable in this way, there is
nothing bad about it... anyone could have the lower ID ship.

But it means, if you own two torp ships with consecutive IDs, you can
sort-of beam torps over several LYs without any risk of another person
sweeping them. Right?

Cheers,
Ingo

--
Ingo von Borstel <newsgroups@planetmaker.de>
http://www.planetmaker.de

If you need an urgent reply, replace newsgroups by vgap.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Ingo von Borstel wrote:
>> Sweeping (and scooping) happen in absolute Id order.
>
> Are they seperately processed or considered at the same time in the host
> processing?

Same time. Scooping is a part of mine scanning. You have to scan a mine
field in order to be allowed to scoop or sweep it (that is,
MineSweepRange = 100 and MineScanRange = 10 will not work).

> Just to check my understanding: as far as I understand the docs, mine
> scoop is happening at the same stage as mine sweep, so a scenario might
> look like this (#045 and #98 in the same place, #495 16LY off that
> position, no previous minefields):
>
> Emp ship #045 lais 400 mines
>
> Emp ship #098 will scoop 300 mines
> Fed ship #495 cannoc sweep anything as it is outside the (remaining)
> field and outside the sweep range as well

Right.

> Emp ship #045 lais 400 mines
> Fed ship #050 sweeps 400 mines
> Emp ship #095 cannot scoop any mines anymore

Right.

> Are these scenarios correct? If it is predictable in this way, there is
> nothing bad about it... anyone could have the lower ID ship.

Exactly. The fundamental difference to the mine laying problem is that
ship positions do matter here. So this turn you have your low-Id ship in
range, next turn it might be my advantage. The mine laying problem fixed
by using per-player Id order has no such restriction. Ship #1 can lay
all the time, no matter where it is. Therefore, player #1 could possibly
block others from laying. That's what was originally fixed by choosing
the first ship to lay mines at random, and which was later changed to
per-player Id order to restore predictability.

> But it means, if you own two torp ships with consecutive IDs, you can
> sort-of beam torps over several LYs without any risk of another person
> sweeping them. Right?

Right.


Stefan