System Builder Marathon, March 2010: $3,000 Extreme PC

[brisingamen]

thier are some serious crack babies cruising the forums thumbing down for no reason,

i didnt lie in my post, or attack anyone. but i will explain it

anyway seems like alot of people are really concerned about boot times,
i still think ssd's have a long way to go, i have a 1tb black edition wd, and an intel 120gb ssd, and to be honest because of the lack of space and hassle i never use the ssd, id rather have just bought a second black edition, had 2tb raided and life will be dandy,

but when im playing crysis at 2560x1600 and i have everything cranked and im dipping under 60fps at certain parts im not going to say eh, love those boot time of 9 seconds or less huhh. . . .

4 5850s air cooled would out perform a single watercooled 5970

 

[Ogdin]

[citation][nom]brisingamen[/nom] 4 5850s air cooled would out perform a single watercooled 5970[/citation]

Yup in a game that quadxfire actually worked it it sure would,games like.......oh ya,nothing really works well with quadxfire. Scaling beyond 2 gpu's is just pathetic in pretty much every game known to man,which is why they went the water cooled 5970 route.

 

[majorgeek]

Nice rig, specs look very good and quality components all around. You got to love that 5970!!

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]jeverson[/nom]The only thing I would have changed would be the case to a COOLER MASTER CM690 II Advanced. It already includes a mount for 2 SSD drives and can accommodate 2 radiators internally. Aside from that, very nice build and I look forward to a chance to win it...[/citation]I'm not used to putting an expensive PC in a cheap case, and I further cannot verify how much room the case has inside for a top-mounted radiator. Cooler Master claims its Storm Sniper supports a radiator but it really doesn't. And I certainly wouldn't trust the side panel of that particular case to hold something as heavy as a second radiator.[citation][nom]newbuilderman1[/nom]just wondering, I know the 5970 bracket takes up two slots, but with the water cooler on, is it possible to use the PCI-E slot next to it (assuming the bracket did not get in the way)? In other words, can it be used in a single slot configuration if it has water cooling (and the bracket was either replaced or cut to fit)?Thanks.[/citation]Maybe. The cooler is a little thicker than average but doesn't overlap the next slot. Whether another card would fit into the next slot down is a matter of how far anything protruded from that card, you only get around 2mm.[citation][nom]builderbobftw[/nom]Why are using a i7-920 over a i7-930?Why are you suing that case over the HAF 922? Why are you not using a cheaper X58? Why are you not using Air Cooling to save money? Why use pricey SSDs, That offer no gaming benefits? Why didn't you put 2 5970s in a 3K$ build?[/citation] LOL! 930 was not available when we ordered, cost $10 more, and had not proven itself a better overclocker. HAF 922 is designed to inspired children...not to create a favorable impression with people who can actually afford a $3000 PC? Because more people wanted SSD's than not! Because the system isn't gaming only? Because a single 5970 provides enough performance for most high-resolution gaming needs? Why do YOU ask about putting in a bunch of cheap stuff...then blow it all on more graphics...when this one has enough graphics power?
[citation][nom]c_schwab[/nom]Very interesting build, definitely not what I would build though. I would change ever item except for the case.[/citation] Thanks for the input, please explain your rationale to builderbobftw[citation][nom]pixelnate[/nom]Shame on you for featuring the 5970. Nobody has these in stock. Anywhere. It is impossible for anyone to replicate this machine.[/citation]Purchased from Newegg when they were in stock. Here's the trick: If you're willing to accept "any" 5970, put a reminder notice on all of them and order the first one Newegg informs you is in stock.

 

[brisingamen]

at first the drivers were not optimized for 4 way crossfire but now they do work, and will only get better with time, as soon as i see a 4 way 5850 setup benched i will probably buy a set.

here is a link showing catalyst 9.12 using all 4 gpu's in crysis warhead. although heavily overclocked, i see no reason it wouldnt work with the 5850's, at this resolution its no doubt the extra shaders and 2gb of memory would have an effect.

http://www.youtube.com/user/EtheEnthusiast#p/u/2/RK9SB52LW6g


this is an old video i cant wait to see the new catalyst drivers at that.

 

[Proximon]

Great build Crashman. I bet you could just throw a 120 into the loop and bring temps down. (probably 40-45 bucks extra)
On the video cards, I want to caution folks that there is some talk about non-standard layouts on the Radeons right now... meaning if you buy a 5970 and a separate water block for it, they might not match. Big problem.
I really was surprised you got so aggressive on the OC. It strikes me as more going for the benchmark rather than going for longevity.

 

[Crashman]

Which O/C? All components were running at gentle voltage levels.

 

[notty22]

Love every choice in the build. I'm a fan of ssd's and am always puzzled by the resistance to them. They make your whole Windows user experience 'better'.

 

[requiemsallure]

the only problem i have with this system is the i7-920, i understand the availability issue of the i7-930, but if anyone emulates this system get the i7-930 it has a higher multiplier and 200mhz higher stock clock. also the i7-930 has been available since it's release, you just have to know where to look, newegg is awesome but it isn't always in stock due to it's popularity.

in addition (this isn't necessary but it IS better) why not get the Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB it is better than the WD drive and it is cheaper.

 

[zamdam]

Dear Tom,

I have one question...

Why is it that almost every time you guys build a decent computer, and bench it with the games of your choosing; you don't max out the games to their highest quality???

You very seldom max out the AA or the AF on your builds. It shouldn't matter what card you are using "ATI or Nvida. If it doesnt perform well with aa and af turned all the way up, so be it. Show us the cards performance with all settings maxed. Then if they are not that good, then put below the turned down setting..

I wish you guys would stop trying to make the cards have higher FPS than if you had those two features enabled. When I play a game, I have them turned up..

Really, you have a $3000 computer and you are not maxing out the features of the games..

Keep up the good work..

 

[Proximon]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Which O/C? All components were running at gentle voltage levels.[/citation]
I didn't really think about the CPU voltage, but you are right of course. I guess I really just don't like the temps. As long as I had an alarm on core temps over 80C I might be happy.
I've been noticing that ME2 is running my C2D at max in Win 7 64... now I have to go compare temps with Prime95 to see if the CPU is actually working as hard, but that's one reason the 90C makes me nervous.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]Proximon[/nom]I didn't really think about the CPU voltage, but you are right of course. I guess I really just don't like the temps. As long as I had an alarm on core temps over 80C I might be happy.I've been noticing that ME2 is running my C2D at max in Win 7 64... now I have to go compare temps with Prime95 to see if the CPU is actually working as hard, but that's one reason the 90C makes me nervous.[/citation]

Well...it is absolute full load for all cores, measured at the core instead of through motherboard software...motherboard reported max temps a lot lower. I don't think most users will full-load all eight cores long enough to get the water temperature to its max.

 

[jdp245]

The problem with the build that I see is that those SSDs in RAID won't support the Windows 7 TRIM command. This is because the Windows 7 TRIM command doesn't work on a RAID controller. Performance will degrade very quickly once those things are written over once.

 

[liquidsnake718]

With Crysis.......... Were almost there on 25600x1600! yet how many ppl actually play Crysis at this crazy setting?!? Will eyefinity using 3 monitors atthis setting be possible?!?

 

[requiemsallure]

Funny--we got ours at retail Inventory of these flagship components comes and goes--in the meantime, you can win this one, at least!!

indeed, just like any good component these days, besides most people seem to only look at newegg, as i said earlier, since newegg is very popular it's inventory runs out very quickly, you have to search around sometimes, look at other vendors also zipzoomfly, tigerdirect, compusa, buy.com, ewiz, among others.

 

[one-shot]

Putting all of these components in a 240 rad is not enough. Most people (watercooling enthusiasts) won't but a SINGLE i7 on a 240 rad. I know the reason has been explained but doing this is a bad example for people who copy it. They will later post comments in the overclocking section why their CPU temps are so high. It seems irresponsible to suggest this.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]one-shot[/nom]Putting all of these components in a 240 rad is not enough. Most people (watercooling enthusiasts) won't but a SINGLE i7 on a 240 rad. I know the reason has been explained but doing this is a bad example for people who copy it. They will later post comments in the overclocking section why their CPU temps are so high. It seems irresponsible to suggest this.[/citation]

Barely enough is still enough, the system was tested at maximum possible load using the highest possible temperature readings. Flow restriction at the GPU block means that the radiator was not likely the greatest limiting factor...the CPU was running around 50° above the LIQUID temperature. So lowering the liquid temperature would have helped, but probably not as much as increasing the flow through the loop.

That's why I suggested adding T-fittings to run some of the coolant through the chipset block, allowing part of the coolant to bypass the graphics card and providing increased flow.

 

[requiemsallure]

^ over my head for the most part, i understand the concept but i still need to learn about water-cooling.

 

[Crashman]

^ over my head for the most part, i understand the concept but i still need to learn about water-cooling.

Basically my theory is that heat is pooling at the CPU block due to a flow restriction at the graphics card. That theory is backed up by a hot processor with a cool graphics card and radiator. Since the graphics card is very cool, the theory goes that reducing pressure at the graphics card by adding a second flow path around it would hurt card temperatures only a little, while the increased flow would help the CPU very much.

 

[noob2222]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Barely enough is still enough, the system was tested at maximum possible load using the highest possible temperature readings. Flow restriction at the GPU block means that the radiator was not likely the greatest limiting factor...the CPU was running around 50° above the LIQUID temperature. So lowering the liquid temperature would have helped, but probably not as much as increasing the flow through the loop.That's why I suggested adding T-fittings to run some of the coolant through the chipset block, allowing part of the coolant to bypass the graphics card and providing increased flow.[/citation]
Actually a T line would reduce flow, Water, just like air will flow to the lowest resistance, and the cpu block is probably the higher resistance part. Even if they are equal, you would be splitting your flow to two devices, cutitng flow in half. If something were to block flow to one device, you have a critical problem on your hands since your pump is still telling the Motherboard that there is no problems.
The setup is correct, and since the GPU temps are low, the cpu is being cooled as much as it possibly can with the setup, otherwise the gpu would be heated up by the cpu block. A T line would allow more colder water to reach the gpu, but since this isn't the problem, a T line would only cause more problems. If anything, the biggest hurt in flow is the rise from the pump to the radiator since its mounted at the very top and the pump at the very bottom.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]noob2222[/nom]Actually a T line would reduce flow, Water, just like air will flow to the lowest resistance, and the cpu block is probably the higher resistance part. Even if they are equal, you would be splitting your flow to two devices, cutitng flow in half. If something were to block flow to one device, you have a critical problem on your hands since your pump is still telling the Motherboard that there is no problems. The setup is correct, and since the GPU temps are low, the cpu is being cooled as much as it possibly can with the setup, otherwise the gpu would be heated up by the cpu block. A T line would allow more colder water to reach the gpu, but since this isn't the problem, a T line would only cause more problems. If anything, the biggest hurt in flow is the rise from the pump to the radiator since its mounted at the very top and the pump at the very bottom.[/citation]

Draw a picture. Make all the water go from the radiator to the CPU first. That's 100% of the water through the CPU block. Split the line AFTER it comes out of the CPU so that half of the water goes through the graphics block and half through the chipset block. Join the line on the other side so that a single line goes back to the pump. A single line up to the reservoir, then a single line to the radiator. and a single line coming out of the radiator to the CPU like I said in the first place. The CPU gets more flow that way, assuming the CARD is the restrictive part.

The card had the narrowest spacing between the hose barbs and the cold plate, so it probably was the most restrictive part.

So, you got, 100% of everything backwards, including saying the flow through the CPU would go down when it actually goes up.

 

[noob2222]

first of all, correct your own mistakes, there is no chipset block, look at the picture on Hardware Installation, Res>Pump>Rad>Cpu>Gpu>Res.

When you say chipset block when there is none makes me think you are referring to the cpu block. then you say split the water between the chipset and the gpu ... see the mistake?

What you are saying could work, but not with an open T. You would have to put in a valve tee in order to ensure the GPU recieves enough flow to keep itself cooled, then adjust it while running a full load and monitoring the temps until you got it just right.

I can almost guarantee you would see a temp drop if you laid that thing on its side as you did while filling it. You eliminate the gravity pressure pushing all the way up to the radiator.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]noob2222[/nom]first of all, correct your own mistakes, there is no chipset block...When you say chipset block when there is none makes me think you are referring to the cpu block. then you say split the water between the chipset and the gpu ... see the mistake?What you are saying could work, but not with an open T. You would have to put in a valve tee in order to ensure the GPU recieves enough flow to keep itself cooled, then adjust it while running a full load and monitoring the temps until you got it just right. I can almost guarantee you would see a temp drop if you laid that thing on its side as you did while filling it. You eliminate the gravity pressure pushing all the way up to the radiator.[/citation]

Please look for alternative images of the board, it has a 3/8" water block and an oversized bolt-on heatsink, something Gigabyte calls "Hybrid Silent-Pipe 2" where "hybrid" means water+air. Its 3/8" fittings mean you would already have a restriction on the chipset (3/8") side of the T, forcing more water through the 1/2" GPU block fittings. GPU temps go up with a 1/2 x 1/2 x 3/8 T bypassing part of the coolant, but so long as the GPU block is more restrictive than the CPU block, flow through the CPU block also goes up.

 

[noob2222]

If you are talking about the "hybrid silent-pipe" that is NOT a water block.
newegg listed here
Gigabyte listed here

Nope, no chipset water block listed or shown. Got some proof or just trying to make sure you can't be proven wrong by making someone else look non existent parts up?

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]noob2222[/nom]If you are talking about the "hybrid silent-pipe" that is NOT a water block.newegg listed hereGigabyte listed hereNope, no chipset water block listed or shown. Got some proof or just trying to make sure you can't be proven wrong by making someone else look non existent parts up?[/citation]
I own the board, I assembled the system, it's a water block with two removable black plugs stuck into the 3/8" fittings to keep the inside of the water block clean.

You can see it in Newegg's image set, unless you're "just trying to make sure you can't be proven wrong" by ignoring existing photos.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?SpinSet=13-128-413-RS&ISList=13-128-413-Z01%2c13-128-413-Z02%2c13-128-413-Z03%2c13-128-413-Z04%2c13-128-413-Z05%2c13-128-413-Z06%2c13-128-413-Z07&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16813128413&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=GIGABYTE%20GA-X58A-UD7%20LGA%201366%20Intel%20X58%20SATA%206Gb%2fs%20USB%203.0%20ATX%20Intel%20Motherboard