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one-shot
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Marcus52 :
In the Western civilization that most of us who read Tomshardware live in, we have been conditioned to think it is reasonable to expect everything be at our fingertips right now. This isn't a "kids these days" problem; it's a conditioning brought on by a lot of factors which I won't try to discuss here, it effects everyone, including me. Even my Dad, who was on the phone the other day waiting for customer assistance at 9 at night on a Sunday for 5 minutes and griping about how long it was taking. 5 minutes. Seriously? He's 77, he knows better, but he's been bitten as hard as everyone else by the "instant gratification" bug.
The fact is, the information is all on this site and can all be attained by anyone in a matter of minutes. It is far from unreasonable to expect a reader to simply look some things up for themselves. In fact, if you haven't read the past articles I really recommend you actually go back and read them, because you will learn more by doing so than by skimming through them or just looking at the hardware.
I get it; I really do. I skim the articles on occasion, too. However, I have never regretted spending the time it takes to read one, and I've never regretted going back and looking up more about what was being discussed. It's time well worth spending.
I come to Tomshardware because I'm looking to learn something. If you come for the same reason, I suggest you will serve yourself better by slowing down a bit and taking a deeper look. I'll tell you the truth, most people that regularly skim sites like Tomshardware are so full of misconceptions that they have wasted their time - you will be a much better informed person if you take the time to do as I suggest. Set aside your preconceived notions as best you can and pay attention to the information presented without being in a hurry.
The fact is, the information is all on this site and can all be attained by anyone in a matter of minutes. It is far from unreasonable to expect a reader to simply look some things up for themselves. In fact, if you haven't read the past articles I really recommend you actually go back and read them, because you will learn more by doing so than by skimming through them or just looking at the hardware.
I get it; I really do. I skim the articles on occasion, too. However, I have never regretted spending the time it takes to read one, and I've never regretted going back and looking up more about what was being discussed. It's time well worth spending.
I come to Tomshardware because I'm looking to learn something. If you come for the same reason, I suggest you will serve yourself better by slowing down a bit and taking a deeper look. I'll tell you the truth, most people that regularly skim sites like Tomshardware are so full of misconceptions that they have wasted their time - you will be a much better informed person if you take the time to do as I suggest. Set aside your preconceived notions as best you can and pay attention to the information presented without being in a hurry.
You need to take a breather!
Good build. Compared to the Tom's build I do see Phenom II x4 965 for +$15 and GTX 460 for -$20 (-$40 if rebates count) but prices change all the time so it's really nitpicking.
The unanswered question that everyone is dying to know is how does your system compare to a i3 - 2100 SB? The i3 has the same price as the CPU in the article but the motherboards are at least $40 more expensive and no OC possible.
After reading your "Who's Got Game? Twelve Sub-$200 CPUs Compared" and thinking that your OC CPU is close to a Phenom x4 970 I would say you are very, very close to i3 - 2100 SB performance.
Apart from a few CPU intensive games like Starcraft 2 I think you might have a real winner here that is most cost effective than Core SB systems. I was thinking of building a Core i3 system but I can grab a x4 965 BE + mobo for $160 and after reading this article it really seems like that is the way to go for a budget build.
The unanswered question that everyone is dying to know is how does your system compare to a i3 - 2100 SB? The i3 has the same price as the CPU in the article but the motherboards are at least $40 more expensive and no OC possible.
After reading your "Who's Got Game? Twelve Sub-$200 CPUs Compared" and thinking that your OC CPU is close to a Phenom x4 970 I would say you are very, very close to i3 - 2100 SB performance.
Apart from a few CPU intensive games like Starcraft 2 I think you might have a real winner here that is most cost effective than Core SB systems. I was thinking of building a Core i3 system but I can grab a x4 965 BE + mobo for $160 and after reading this article it really seems like that is the way to go for a budget build.
JohnMD1022
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- Jun 1, 2006
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Current newegg shows EVGA 01G-P3-1366-TR GeForce GTX 460 SE (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 for $140 after rebate. There's your 955 CPU.
Onus
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- Jan 27, 2006
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I really enjoy the lowest-dollar SBM articles, and this one is no exception. Just because I wouldn't have done it quite like this, I probably learned something .
The case looks like a winner, with even a little cable management that cheap, top-mount PSU cases usually don't have. Living in Tennessee, I can tell you that the orange would go over very well around here (it's the color for the local college sports teams).
It reinforces something I (and others) have said before: if you need four cores, buy four cores. That's a good reminder, because otherwise with a similar CPU budget I might have risked a Phenom II X2 560, hoping for an unlock.
The only two items I will moan about a little are the hard drive (500GB 7200.12 has been $40 for a while now, and the F4 you used was disappointing last time) and the GPU. For $165 (after MIR) you can get a HD5850, and I think that price has been around for at least a couple of weeks.
Still, someone building this box could throw in an aftermarket CPU cooler and get even better results.
I've used the 770DE board myself a couple times, but I've noticed (and recently bought) ASRock's 880G board for the same price. Would it perform notably differently?
Most of all, at the risk of sounding like an AMD fanboy (which I'm not; I'm a value fanboy), this machine's performance proves yet again that it isn't necessary to have the latest and greatest or spend a couple month's salary to get enjoyment from current games.
.The case looks like a winner, with even a little cable management that cheap, top-mount PSU cases usually don't have. Living in Tennessee, I can tell you that the orange would go over very well around here (it's the color for the local college sports teams).
It reinforces something I (and others) have said before: if you need four cores, buy four cores. That's a good reminder, because otherwise with a similar CPU budget I might have risked a Phenom II X2 560, hoping for an unlock.
The only two items I will moan about a little are the hard drive (500GB 7200.12 has been $40 for a while now, and the F4 you used was disappointing last time) and the GPU. For $165 (after MIR) you can get a HD5850, and I think that price has been around for at least a couple of weeks.
Still, someone building this box could throw in an aftermarket CPU cooler and get even better results.
I've used the 770DE board myself a couple times, but I've noticed (and recently bought) ASRock's 880G board for the same price. Would it perform notably differently?
Most of all, at the risk of sounding like an AMD fanboy (which I'm not; I'm a value fanboy), this machine's performance proves yet again that it isn't necessary to have the latest and greatest or spend a couple month's salary to get enjoyment from current games.
random_guesser
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- Mar 24, 2011
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There's instant gratification and simple time-efficieny.
On a personal note, with a new son I've not been keeping up with latest technology and am quickly trying to figure out what's the optimum, cheap cpu/mboard combo (basically i3/h55/7 or Athlon X2 "e" and 880G once factoring in the power/money burn running 24x7, can't decide the best for longevity vs initial cost!)
I've had to spend quite a number of hours reading through various multi-page articles from various sources, often juggling a smartphone and a buggy on the go, to get myself back up to speed with all the latest choices so I can decide what to build. I think I've just about got everything I need now, but I've had to cross reference a number of articles to get all the info I need, particularly as few articles about power vs cost vs performance factor in energy cost and TCO.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble so I'll shut up!
PS. One thing I've not researched yet, anyone know what the best HDDs are for low power / spinning down when not being accessed and whether they do it themselves or require Linux / mobo tweaks? Or it doesn't matter and they all do it these days.....
I've spent a good
On a personal note, with a new son I've not been keeping up with latest technology and am quickly trying to figure out what's the optimum, cheap cpu/mboard combo (basically i3/h55/7 or Athlon X2 "e" and 880G once factoring in the power/money burn running 24x7, can't decide the best for longevity vs initial cost!)
I've had to spend quite a number of hours reading through various multi-page articles from various sources, often juggling a smartphone and a buggy on the go, to get myself back up to speed with all the latest choices so I can decide what to build. I think I've just about got everything I need now, but I've had to cross reference a number of articles to get all the info I need, particularly as few articles about power vs cost vs performance factor in energy cost and TCO.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble so I'll shut up!
PS. One thing I've not researched yet, anyone know what the best HDDs are for low power / spinning down when not being accessed and whether they do it themselves or require Linux / mobo tweaks? Or it doesn't matter and they all do it these days.....
I've spent a good
Quote:
"
I was thinking it would be more in my first post, but a quad-core SB can be had for $60 more, a mainboard can be had for $5 more, so now that I've actually looked it up, you can get into an i5 Sandy Bridge with a decent Asrock mainboard for a total of another $65. Overclocking on the stock cooler? My guess is results would be similar.
That would be a 13% increase in price, and I'd be willing to bet the overall performance difference would be more than that.
The better you know your software needs, the better you can tailor your system. I think a lot of gamers would shift as you would for the better graphics card, but that would actually hurt some games that need the stronger CPU. World of Warcraft is an example - while Cataclysm brought changes that make the video card much more important, the CPU is still a major player and when player populations get high the most critical element. It's something I think FPS multiplayer gamers might think about as well.
"
Upgrade to SB Quad-Core + motherboard for $65 more? Could you add some links to back that up...
"
I was thinking it would be more in my first post, but a quad-core SB can be had for $60 more, a mainboard can be had for $5 more, so now that I've actually looked it up, you can get into an i5 Sandy Bridge with a decent Asrock mainboard for a total of another $65. Overclocking on the stock cooler? My guess is results would be similar.
That would be a 13% increase in price, and I'd be willing to bet the overall performance difference would be more than that.
The better you know your software needs, the better you can tailor your system. I think a lot of gamers would shift as you would for the better graphics card, but that would actually hurt some games that need the stronger CPU. World of Warcraft is an example - while Cataclysm brought changes that make the video card much more important, the CPU is still a major player and when player populations get high the most critical element. It's something I think FPS multiplayer gamers might think about as well.
"
Upgrade to SB Quad-Core + motherboard for $65 more? Could you add some links to back that up...
This is always the funnest part of the SMBs. With higher budgets, it's almost predictable where you'll end up. But when you're feeling the squeeze, it's cool to see how an intelligent, computer savvy person makes his/her choices.
The $40 for only a 350w earthwatts is a bit meek, especially if you ever want to put another harddrive or burner in, or do minor upgrades. I would have leaned more towards a 500-600w powersupply, which can be had for around the same price these days.
Onus
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Sorry, but wrong. The 380W Earthwatts is underrated; it's actually good for a little more than that. It is solid, stable, efficient, and quiet. A 500W PSU in the $40 range is probably a chokemax brand like Logisys, Diablotek, or Apevia, barely good for half of its label before blowing electronic chunks and likely taking other parts with it. If you want more information on PSUs, HardwareSecrets probably has the best tutorial articles and their reviews include dissections. Jonnyguru and HardOCP also do competent technical reviews, and are worth reading.
themarin8r
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- Mar 16, 2011
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[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Sorry, but wrong. The 380W Earthwatts is underrated; it's actually good for a little more than that. It is solid, stable, efficient, and quiet. A 500W PSU in the $40 range is probably a chokemax brand like Logisys, Diablotek, or Apevia, barely good for half of its label before blowing electronic chunks and likely taking other parts with it. If you want more information on PSUs, HardwareSecrets probably has the best tutorial articles and their reviews include dissections. Jonnyguru and HardOCP also do competent technical reviews, and are worth reading.[/citation]
Totally Agree. Not only that, but there was still plenty of wattage left to add a HDD or dvd burner as they do not take up that much power to be that concerned.
Totally Agree. Not only that, but there was still plenty of wattage left to add a HDD or dvd burner as they do not take up that much power to be that concerned.
robwright
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- Feb 16, 2006
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[citation][nom]one-shot[/nom]Would someone please explain the point of comparing the old SBM to the new one if there isn't a list of the parts from the SBM done in the past? These have always been annoying when the reader is forced to look back to December for a detailed list of parts. This has been practiced for years here. It makes no sense comparing to something the reader has no idea as to the parts being used in the past. Seriously....Edit: Why Did I get a Minus one the second after my post was submitted?[/citation]
For One-Shot
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rwpritchett
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- Mar 17, 2006
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Great build. I always love the challenge of the low-budget build in these SBM articles.
I wonder if a higher clocked Athlon X4 would make up the difference of lacking L3 cache. For example the Phenom II X4 840 (which is really an Athlon II X4 650 in disguise, and lacks L3) is $15 cheaper than the 925. It runs at 3.2GHz vs. the 925's 2.8GHz. I'm curious if that extra 400MHz is enough to overcome the lack of 6MB L3. $15 in savings could go towards a nice CM Hyper 212+, leading to a better OC perhaps?
Good job pauldh. Next SBM may be entirely an Intel affair unless BD is out.
I wonder if a higher clocked Athlon X4 would make up the difference of lacking L3 cache. For example the Phenom II X4 840 (which is really an Athlon II X4 650 in disguise, and lacks L3) is $15 cheaper than the 925. It runs at 3.2GHz vs. the 925's 2.8GHz. I'm curious if that extra 400MHz is enough to overcome the lack of 6MB L3. $15 in savings could go towards a nice CM Hyper 212+, leading to a better OC perhaps?
Good job pauldh. Next SBM may be entirely an Intel affair unless BD is out.
billiardicus
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Nice build. Thoughts:
1. Wow, $500 buys a lot. This is a very capable gaming machine.
2. I didn't know you could get by with only 380 watts. Nice.
There's not much else to say. This rig is a little bit more powerful than my 3 year old rig (Q6600@3.3ghz, GTX 280). If only the game developers would make something worth upgrading for.
1. Wow, $500 buys a lot. This is a very capable gaming machine.
2. I didn't know you could get by with only 380 watts. Nice.
There's not much else to say. This rig is a little bit more powerful than my 3 year old rig (Q6600@3.3ghz, GTX 280). If only the game developers would make something worth upgrading for.
I used a very similar system to this for a while. I just recently upgraded to Sandy Bridge, and while it's undeniable better, the price of admission is steep compared to a budged AMD rig.
I had a Phenom II 550 BE unlocked to a x3 and a Athlon II X3 unlocked to a quad core. I came to the conclusion that 4 cores without L3 were mostly preferable to a 3 core with L3. I bought in to SB, but I'm pretty curious as to what AMD has up their sleeves. Given the current AMD mobo and CPU prices, I'd have a hard time convincing someone to spend twice as much for undeniably better SB performance. SB motherboards are much more expensive than comparable AMD motherboards, but I can't always pinpoint where the extra money goes.
I had a Phenom II 550 BE unlocked to a x3 and a Athlon II X3 unlocked to a quad core. I came to the conclusion that 4 cores without L3 were mostly preferable to a 3 core with L3. I bought in to SB, but I'm pretty curious as to what AMD has up their sleeves. Given the current AMD mobo and CPU prices, I'd have a hard time convincing someone to spend twice as much for undeniably better SB performance. SB motherboards are much more expensive than comparable AMD motherboards, but I can't always pinpoint where the extra money goes.
joshyboy82
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I felt like I was window-shopping in the ghetto reading this review. Not the way it was written, that part was fine. Probably the content.
Would a budget system like this be able to run a game like FFXIV? If so at what graphics level do you think it could run it at? I am interested because I am going to play GW2 and SWTOR mmos and would like to get a new computer to play them. I would like to play them on high graphics, would one of these budget rigs run it that way? or do I need to look at the $1000 rigs?
Thank you for the help.
Thank you for the help.
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