[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Can you back that up with something BESIDES generalizations?
And if you're about to provide a list of lame generalizations again, don't bother. As I've already said, few people need more than four expansion slots, and few people need to support more than two or three hard drives. Any other differences in today's cases are not a fault of Micro ATX, they're design features used to make the systems smaller and more portable.[/citation]
I have been building or servicing micro-ATX PC's for close to 15 years as a hobby. Within that period, I have seen power supplies increase in capacity from 150W to 400W in micro-ATX systems as more demands are placed on them. I never saw a power supply greater than 400W in
a micro-ATX system. That's a fact. Most are 250W to 300W. And Crashman, there is a generally good reason for this.
It's not a falsehood or "lame generalization" to state that the form factor specification for Micro-ATX was originally written with office/business computers in mind to save material and operating costs, while enhancing interchangability of components with the larger ATX form factor. Yes, micro-ATX motherboards are smaller with 4 PCI slots. There are no specific power limitations for a micro-ATX board within the published specifications. Until recently, most were engineered with onboard power supplies that could handle at most 100-130W for the CPU. Micro-ATX boards are generally not designed for enthusiast overclocking. They are designed for low-power business computing. This is a fact. Also case manufacturers anticipate the lower power requirements of micro-ATX systems and provide micro-ATX cases with case fans that can handle at most 400W internal load before case thermal management becomes a problem. That is a fact.
I never said that the micro-ATX specification INTENDED all micro-ATX motherboards have onboard graphics. The micro-ATX specification never required this. However, most mirco-ATX boards (98%) sold on the market today do have onboard graphics because of the intended business and home markets. Yes, this is a generalization. It's also rooted in fact. Most micro-ATX motherboards (90%) have a single AGP or 16-lane PCI-X slot for an optional graphics card when business needs require this. These graphics cards are not very powerful and get all of there power from the slot. That's a fact too. Businesses and homeowners like to keep their computers for awhile. Overclocking is generally discouraged and most micro-atx motherboard BIOS have limited overclocking capabilities. This is another generality which happens to be fact.
The DFI LANPARTY JR X58-T3H6 or ASUS Rampage II GENE motherboards are a very expensive exceptions to the general rule of micro-ATX motherboards. Unfortunately, there are not many micro-ATX cases that can handle their thermal loads. That's a factual observation.
Crashman there are a superabundance of generalizations that are operative in business, politics, engineering and science which describe normative behavior or situations. Some of these generalizations are well rooted in fact. Get use to it Crashman. Sometimes they are called principles, norms, laws. If you find this reality uncomfortable then this is most unfortunate.
If a 750W enthusiast system were operated in a midtower ATX case there are going to be problems cooling the system unless the case fans can move a lot of air through it, or use liquid cooling. If you doubt me then go ask any enthusiast who has ever built and operated such a PC requiring a true 750W load. He/she who know what they are doing will attest this is a real problem. The case this system will be housed in will most likely have 3-4 fans if air cooling is relied upon. Crashman, I direct your attention to the Antec 900 which has 3 120mm and 1 250mm fans as an example of a popular enthusiast case. This case can move a lot of air and can control a 750W thermal load.
If you put this very same load in a smaller micro-ATX case, such at the TJ08, with 2 120mm fans optimized for a thermal load of 400W at 55cfm, there are going to real problems with thermal management. Especially when filled with so much stuff (a large pedestel heatsink, heatsink fan blowing against the case flow, dual SLI, excess cabling) case air mass flow is diminished relative to that of the larger ATX. With a micro-ATX system, you want to minimize the clutter. Small cases mean higher air resistence for a given flow. Cashman, I do not care about the exceptions you may bring up or imagine for the sake of arguement. I simply do not care. Let's talk about the TJ08 which has a high air mass flow for a micro-ATX case and has proved inadequate. Let's talk facts: 750W in a smaller micro-ATX case means higher power density and lower air flow that will defeat any CPU or GPU heatsink unless the case fans can remove the thermal load.
This is a fundamental problem with this absurd i720 SLI build. It's Dark Knight S1283 CPU heatsink and GPU heatsinks were ineffectual because the TJ08 cannot move the hot air out of the case fast enough. This build really belongs in a ATX case of larger internal volume and sufficient fans that can handle the thermal load. The only mitigation is to install higher volume case fans, a single 4870 X2 graphics card with unobstructed air intake at the cool intake of the case blowing its exhaust out the back, a heatsink that blows down on the power circuitry and northbridge actually doing some useful cooling rather than blowing against the case flow, and a SEASONIC 700W power supply with a bottom 120mm fan and modular cables. These changes might control the thermal load of this absurd i720 micro-ATX build.
If you want an enthusiast system in a micro-atx case, you are going have to do this with a power budget at most 500W using two 120mm fans moving the most air in series (~90cfm), with a single graphics card exhausting through the rear of the case. Above that, the case and its components are going to cook. That's a fact.
Some enthusiasts will not tolerate such a "paltry" 500W constraint on their high-end SLI/Cross-fire graphics, Raptor RAID arrays, Overclocked Quad Cores (like the i720), 12 GB of overclocked memory, etc, ad-nauseum. They want to operate well in excess of 500W. This will not work very well in a micro-ATX case.
Do you understand why Crashman?
That's why I maintain an true enthusiast micro-atx build is an oxymoron. Its not realistic considering the expectations of the enthusiast community. And the i720 build featured in this marathon sadly proves it. I do not think this rig would last three weeks with the thermal performance it exhibited. Even the most deranged of enthusiasts expect better longetivity than that.
Crashman, don't ever speak to me this way again about my speaking "lame generalities" of the problems of this micro-ATX build. You have failed to grasp the technical issues of this build. If you do not like these "lame generalities", you do not have to read my posts.
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