System Builder Marathon, May '09: $600 Gaming PC

sychodelix · May 27, 2009

All MicroATX for 3 builds and all are mainstream, not media centers. How...idiotic. Not to mention you totally ignore any AMD offerings even when it could turn out giving you more for your money. This is about the last one of these builder marathons I think I'll be reading.

Crashman · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]sychodelix[/nom]All MicroATX for 3 builds and all are mainstream, not media centers. How...idiotic. Not to mention you totally ignore any AMD offerings even when it could turn out giving you more for your money. This is about the last one of these builder marathons I think I'll be reading.[/citation]

You're suggesting media centers for portability? How...lame.

Then you say AMD was ignored when...well, look at some processor reviews, including overclocking, then check prices.

You don't need to read any more articles, anywhere. It appears you already have your mind made up.

ahslan · May 27, 2009

how the heck did they get that Silverstone Sugo SG01 case for $70?!?!?!? cuz the list price of it on newegg is $110 (not including a $15 mail-in rebate)...

I also expected to see an AMD platform here...*le sigh*

Crashman · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]Ahslan[/nom]how the heck did they get that Silverstone Sugo SG01 case for $70?!?!?!? cuz the list price of it on newegg is $110 (not including a $15 mail-in rebate)...I also expected to see an AMD platform here...*le sigh*[/citation]

Here's the problem: Show me an AMD CPU and motherboard, together for $132 total, that can do 3.5 GHz with a low-profile cooler.

Yeh, these are overclocked PC's, overclocking will be used in the competition, and nobody wants to lose.

KT_WASP · May 27, 2009

AMD gets the shaft again....

Why cant IntelsHarwareGuide... er I mean NividiasHardwareGuide er I mean TomsHardwareGuide ever use AMD/ATI as a base for one of these builds?

Toms build based off of Intel/Nividia:

Intel Core 2 Duo E5200 2.5GHz = $70
XFX GX260XADJF GeForce GTX 260 Core Edition Core 216 896 MB = $170

Total = $240

Why not work with this?

AMD Athlon X2 7850 Black Edition Kuma 2.8GHz Socket AM2+ = $74
SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100273L Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 = $155

Total = $229

Your telling me thats not a good starting point??

pffftt

Crashman · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]KT_Wasp[/nom]AMD gets the shaft again....Why cant IntelsHarwareGuide... er I mean NividiasHardwareGuide er I mean TomsHardwareGuide ever use AMD/ATI as a base for one of these builds?Toms build based off of Intel/Nividia:Intel Core 2 Duo E5200 2.5GHz = $70XFX GX260XADJF GeForce GTX 260 Core Edition Core 216 896 MB = $170Total = $240Why not work with this?AMD Athlon X2 7850 Black Edition Kuma 2.8GHz Socket AM2+ = $74SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100273L Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 = $155Total = $229Your telling me thats not a good starting point??pffftt[/citation]

Shafted eh? Show me a sub-$70 motherboard that can push the 7850 to at least 3.5 GHz in a thermally-restricted case....

Whoops! You'd better make that 3.8 GHz since it's an AMD processor.

bill gates is your daddy · May 27, 2009

Remind me again...Intel/Nvidia sponsors how much money to Tom's?

bill gates is your daddy · May 27, 2009

http://feedbacks.tomshardware.com/pages/16334-article-ideas/suggestions/188882-cost-effective-review-against-amd-ati-and-intel-nvidia

I have made the suggestion before and will continue to suggest it. Make a real world comparison against an Intel/Nvidia vs AMD/ATI machine. Create a spending cap that you cannot go over but going under is welcome and adds points to the end value of the build. See which one really comes out ahead.

That is if Intel/Nvidia will allow you to do such a comparison.

Onus · May 27, 2009

I'm a little disappointed in this one. On a performance scale of 1-10, stock/overclocked, at this level I'd much rather see 5/6 than 3/7. By way of comparison, at the high end I'd expect 9/10, and mid-range 7/9. For $2.5K, the high-end system should not have to be overclocked to get decent performance, and for $1.3K I would expect a system that is specifically intended to be overclocked, but at $600 I want to see better stock performance. The e5200 is a mutt at stock. Overclocking results are so highly variable, and a high one can shorten component life, so I'd like to see the low-end machine perform better at stock. This is not an AMD vs. Intel whinge, but a 720BE or 7850X2 would have been much better here, or perhaps an Intel e7400. The person looking to build at this price point may not yet be comfortable with [high] overclocking, or have the budget to replace overstressed parts.
I'm not thrilled about the PSU choice, especially when an adequate PC Power & Cooling or Antec Earthwatts would have been cheaper and better. Still, that one could yet test well, modular cabling is a big plus in cramped systems, and total power draw is apparently safely low.
I did like the video card selected. Although I've been buying ATI lately, the text that went along with this one explained very nicely how it turned out to be a great choice.
If I were to win this system, I'd likely put my Q9450 in it and possibly replace the PSU, then I'd be very happy with it. The case is nice.

radiowars · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]KT_Wasp[/nom]AMD gets the shaft again....Why cant IntelsHarwareGuide... er I mean NividiasHardwareGuide er I mean TomsHardwareGuide ever use AMD/ATI as a base for one of these builds?Toms build based off of Intel/Nividia:Intel Core 2 Duo E5200 2.5GHz = $70XFX GX260XADJF GeForce GTX 260 Core Edition Core 216 896 MB = $170Total = $240Why not work with this?AMD Athlon X2 7850 Black Edition Kuma 2.8GHz Socket AM2+ = $74SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100273L Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 = $155Total = $229Your telling me thats not a good starting point??pffftt[/citation]

Lol, a 4850 compared to a GTX 260? Right....
Also, the E5200 uses 30W less power, meaning it can OC higher, and can actually work in the mini-tower.

Crashman · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]bill gates is your daddy[/nom]Remind me again...Intel/Nvidia sponsors how much money to Tom's?[/citation]

That depends on how much AMD is providing you in exchange for this harrassment.

MAD4AMD · May 27, 2009

I agree with Crashman, that Intel would be much better choice for overclocker here, but...
It's so called gaming pc, you can't ignore the fact, that 7850 (not even talking about 720) would preform !much! better @ stock in games on any AM2+ board.
So here's a thing - if I'm common user who doesn't overclock or simply I don't want to do it, is it really THE RIGHT BUILD for me? As it is System Builder not Overclocker marathon... Well that's just a thing for a thought. I personally like to see overclocking, so I respect this choice!

fausto · May 27, 2009

let's be realistic...in the budgets most of us are shopping AMD is probably a compelling choice for a new build...but most of us have intel motherboards.

gabitu · May 27, 2009

2500$ system, 1250 $ system and now even 625 $ system are all based on the intel cpus and nvidia graphics........SHAME on u Tom's hardware for this.
As this guy "Jon Bach, Puget Systems" said a few days ago in one of tom's articles: " Our AMD rep does send us the occasional sample product, and we appreciate that. But while Intel is visiting us in person once a quarter,AMD has yet to send anyone out to us, ever. "
So that means that AMD has to KISS SOME ASS to get one of their products in an article like this. And it is clear that INTEL is LICKING not kissing tom's ass........
I'm not an AMD fan , i'm an costumer, i want to know my choises........

Crashman · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]gabitu[/nom]2500$ system, 1250 $ system and now even 625 $ system are all based on the intel cpus and nvidia graphics........SHAME on u Tom's hardware for this.As this guy "Jon Bach, Puget Systems" said a few days ago in one of tom's articles: " Our AMD rep does send us the occasional sample product, and we appreciate that. But while Intel is visiting us in person once a quarter,AMD has yet to send anyone out to us, ever. "So that means that AMD has to KISS SOME ASS to get one of their products in an article like this. And it is clear that INTEL is LICKING not kissing tom's ass........I'm not an AMD fan , i'm an costumer, i want to know my choises........[/citation]

It's about putting together a parts list for the single best PC the builder can think of within his budget. He can only build on PC. That doesn't leave much room for choices.

wamsi9634 · May 27, 2009

I think EU should fine Toms also

....AMD might not have a g8 high end CPU. But they definitely have a great value and mid range CPUs.

What about? X2 7850 Black Edition, II X3 710??????

scryer_360 · May 27, 2009

Micro-ATX on $600? Win.

Not using a X3 710? Hmmm the X3 710 on an AM2+ or AM2 motherboard, use DDR2 ram, and give it two 4770s, what would the price on that be? There are motherboards that support such a configuration, many below $100. $100 mobo + $120 cpu+ $200 in two 4770s = $420. The rest is memory, psu, case, DVD drive and PSU. All that to find on $180-$200 (breaking the budget some)? And staying Micro-ATX?

That is why Toms used the E5200. There are AMD dual cores available, but none will match a C2D of equivalent price.

KT_WASP · May 27, 2009

Well... for all of you bashing the 7850 Kuma... do some research first! At stock speeds it beats the E5200 easily.. and there are reviews out there that compared them overclocked as well. One particular review (@bit-tech) shows the E5200 OC'ed to 4.0GHz and it only beat out the stock 7850 Kuma by an average of 6 frame rates in games.....Then they overclocked the Kuma to only 3.1GHz ,air cooled, and that gap closed to about 4 frame rates......

Toms overclocked theirs to 3.6GHz.. so if a 4GHz E5200 only beats a STOCK Kuma by 6 frame rates average, how many frame rates does that reduce to with the E5200 at 3.6GHz???

WOW... amazing performance over the lowly AMD!! Give me a break already! The majority of computer owners don't even overclock.. and these finding make me wonder why I would choose a E5200 and have to overclock it that much, just to gain a very few frames in a game??

I've owned Intel and AMD respectively.. but when it comes to the lower end budget builds, AMD can not be beat for price performance

roynaldi · May 27, 2009

Perhaps its just me never noticing that the Vista Ultimate 64bit is NOT included in the price... at $175 (NewEgg) this would greatly skew the hardware you can purchase, especially on this budget build.

Pls correct me if I missed it somewhere, in this article or in the past, but unless you are going to use a Linux based OS, or Win 7(temporary soln), I would think the price of the OS should be included.

If they included the price of the OS in this build, there would only be $425 left for hardware!!!! MUCH different build.

Sihastru · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]roynaldi[/nom]Perhaps its just me never noticing that the Vista Ultimate 64bit is NOT included in the price... at $175 (NewEgg) this would greatly skew the hardware you can purchase, especially on this budget build. Pls correct me if I missed it somewhere, in this article or in the past, but unless you are going to use a Linux based OS, or Win 7(temporary soln), I would think the price of the OS should be included. If they included the price of the OS in this build, there would only be $425 left for hardware!!!! MUCH different build.[/citation]

Since they'll use the same OS for all systems, it makes no difference if the price for it is included or not. Do you think they include the price for all the 3dMark versions, for all other testing tools, for all the tested games?

Don't tell me they use timedemos, I won't build a $2500 PC to "play" 3dMark and timedemos...

The idea is the software part is the same, it's the hardware that's different.

Guest · May 27, 2009

Intel the green power again $$$$$
Not enough adv money Tommy????
Give us a break... and some respect to your readers!!

Mach5Motorsport · May 27, 2009

Another Epic Fail System Build.

The excuses for omitting an AMD CPU is really inexcusable at this point.

dirtmountain · May 27, 2009

ahslan · May 27, 2009

ya...but can it play...oh wait

erdinger · May 27, 2009

[citation][nom]obarthelemy[/nom]On the $600 system, do you feel the performance is limited by the CPU, or by the vidcard ? I'm looking into getting a new PC, for around $800-900, and I was wondering if I should put a bit more money in the vidcard or the cpu (I'm getting bigger HD's for sure).[/citation]

I would upgrade the Cpu and leave the gpu

System Builder Marathon, May '09: $600 Gaming PC

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