System Builder Marathon, Q3 2013: $650 Gaming PC

[jbird2383]

The Gaia costs even less,
Because of your reply I looked up the Gaia and I wanna thank you and appreciate it that you mentioned it. It looks very lovely and priced at 25. I am gonna be defiantly using it at that price point on my next build. Thanks!!

 

[Onus]

I use and recommend the Gaia because although it is cheaper, its performance is superior to the more often parroted Hyper212 EVO:

http://www.techreaction.net/2011/07/07/review-xigmatek-gaia-sd1283/7/
http://www.techreaction.net/2011/11/27/review-cooler-master-hyper-212-plus/4/

Unlike the Hyper212 EVO (ignore the URL; it IS the EVO they tested), the Gaia never throttled, although it wasn't always the coolest depending on the fan used. Both got awards, but if you factor in the price, the Gaia wins hands down.
--
I believe the VP-450 is enough. Although it possesses a little voltage switch, its design is actually modern and efficient. If you look at the power consumption chart, you'll see the most pulled from the wall was 413W. At 80% efficiency (this PSU is a little better actually), that's 330W needed by the system, well within the 450W labeled rating (and HardwareSecrets found it good for more).

 

[Avro Arrow]

I found one thing really strange (I found it even stranger that you didn't say anything about it.) so it might be an error. On page 10 (A/V), your iTunes and LAME numbers show that the overclock makes no difference at all. How is that even possible? Is it being bottlenecked by something else? I understand that AMD doesn't have the same single-threaded performance that Intel has but an overclock should increase the speed in a linear manner in a single-threaded application. I'm expecting that there's a typo somewhere in there.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Oh, I just saw the answer to my question after reading the overclocking section for the second time.

 

[jbird2383]

I use and recommend the Gaia because although it is cheaper, its performance is superior to the more often parroted Hyper212 EVO:

http://www.techreaction.net/2011/07/07/review-xigmatek-gaia-sd1283/7/
http://www.techreaction.net/2011/11/27/review-cooler-master-hyper-212-plus/4/

Unlike the Hyper212 EVO (ignore the URL; it IS the EVO they tested), the Gaia never throttled, although it wasn't always the coolest depending on the fan used. Both got awards, but if you factor in the price, the Gaia wins hands down..

I am happy I found something decent and I can't wait to try it. I am surprised in such a low wattage PSU because any builder has to consider future upgrades and that PSU would really be at full capacity with future upgrades. The price difference is maybe 20$ more and you have choices up to the 700W range and newegg runs weekly and daily deals all the time. I've had Antec's blow up before there not all what there cracked up to be especially at full capacity.

Overall it was a enjoyed, good article and happy to see AMD in the SBM.

 

[InvalidError]

any builder has to consider future upgrades and that PSU would really be at full capacity with future upgrades.

That is relative.

Personally, I build new every ~4 years and rarely change anything aside from upgrading HDDs or adding RAM in-between, so almost no net change in power draw.

 

[Vastian]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/1IphF

 

[Vastian]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($99.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($78.97 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 64GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($69.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($155.66 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($47.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.25 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $650.81
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-09-28 00:29 EDT-0400)

 

[de5_Roy]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($99.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($78.97 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 64GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($69.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($155.66 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($47.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.25 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $650.81
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-09-28 00:29 EDT-0400)

heh.
it's not an all newegg build.
you're comparing present prices to old ones.
it's really a $750+ build. you posted the post-rebate price only.
you compromised discreet gfx capability and memory.
where the heck is the hard disk drive? is the pc supposed to run off of the 64GB ssd only?

it's a [strike]decent build[/strike] fine for people who may want to buy these 'computer parts' now, but it doesn't 'outbuild' the sbm pc in anyway. using only one stick of ram was a bad decision, overshadowed by the omission of HDD. case choice is personal, imo a $650 build can make do with a corsair 200r or the nzxt tempest 210 from this sbm. i'd gladly give up the super-fast ssd and the pricier case (heck, may be the dvd drive too ) for one more stick of ram (or a dual channel kit) and a high capacity hdd in this type of build. may be re-route the budget towards a stronger gfx card and some extra case fans.

 

[jbird2383]

any builder has to consider future upgrades and that PSU would really be at full capacity with future upgrades.

That is relative.

Personally, I build new every ~4 years and rarely change anything aside from upgrading HDDs or adding RAM in-between, so almost no net change in power draw.

Everyone is different but I would rather have choosen a beefier PSU for the extra 20 bucks and the egg is always running deals on PSU's and would of went as high as I could go so I would have room for expansion/upgrades down the line so I wouldn't have to run the risk of it being at full capacity threshold. I have had Antec's blow up and once that VRM module is cooked there goes everything else in the system and at that point the money is burnt.

I am curious though what would be a middle way GPU for 200?? I have to 2 XFX Radeon 7770 crossfired wonder if it would improve performance much vs a GTX760 or a 3Gig Radeon 7950.

 

[pauldh]

any builder has to consider future upgrades and that PSU would really be at full capacity with future upgrades.

That is relative.

Personally, I build new every ~4 years and rarely change anything aside from upgrading HDDs or adding RAM in-between, so almost no net change in power draw.

Everyone is different but I would rather have choosen a beefier PSU for the extra 20 bucks and the egg is always running deals on PSU's and would of went as high as I could go so I would have room for expansion/upgrades down the line so I wouldn't have to run the risk of it being at full capacity threshold. I have had Antec's blow up and once that VRM module is cooked there goes everything else in the system and at that point the money is burnt.

I am curious though what would be a middle way GPU for 200?? I have to 2 XFX Radeon 7770 crossfired wonder if it would improve performance much vs a GTX760 or a 3Gig Radeon 7950.

There was not a higher output model of this quality available for $40 unless if you want to factor mail-in rebates, which we do not. I doubt's you'd upgrade this CPU during the machine's life. A graphics upgrade is unlikely too, BUT if you did, it may not draw any more power than this GTX 760 anyway.

What Antec has cooked? You must look at the specific model, not lump the brand as a whole. I am guessing either a faulty unit, or it was a Smart Power / Smart Power 2.0. Out of well over 50 builds relying on Antec power supplies, only "Smart Power" units have come back with trouble over 3-5 year time frame.

 

[Outlander_04]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($99.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.98 @ Outlet PC)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 LE R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($78.97 @ Outlet PC)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial M4 64GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($69.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($155.66 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($47.99 @ Microcenter)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($18.25 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $650.81
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-09-28 00:29 EDT-0400)

Interesting choices , but they will limit performance .

The "LE " motherboard wont overclock well . No heatsinks on the VRM's at all .

The single stick of RAM will cut performance compared to a dual channel kit

And spending $70 an a nearly useless SSD which is too small , and over spending on the case by $50 cut so much out of the graphics card budget that game performance will be underwhelming compared to the original build

 

[InvalidError]

I have had Antec's blow up and once that VRM module is cooked there goes everything else in the system and at that point the money is burnt.

The only PSU I have that has ever fried components aside from itself is an old PC-XT PSU which has no protections whatsoever and could belch out around 10V on the 5V output after a partial short.

Under most circumstances, it will take a PSU more than 30us to rise from 12.5 to 13V due to internal and external capacitance while over-voltage protections have response times in the 0.1-10us range so it should be nearly impossible for a bad PSU to fry a properly designed load that has a properly designed OVP... unless the unnecessarily powerful PSU blows up the load's OVP first with its 40+A single-rail supply - OVP protections work by shorting PSU output(s) to ground but that does not work if the PSU can dish out enough current to blow up the OVP or fry the load's wiring/PCB without tripping itself.

 

[InvalidError]

Non UL parts but yet UL certification.

UL certification is for the public's safety, not the equipment's or reliability.

As long as the PSU cannot fail in a way that could burn down someone's home or injure humans under relatively normal use conditions including the most common handling mistakes, misuses and abuses, it will get its UL certification.

 

[InvalidError]

Google bestec 250 catching fire

You will have to provide a link. I'm only getting seven pages of results and at a glance, none of them seemed to point to newsworthy catastrophic failures. A few reports of them frying motherboards and that's pretty much it.

The closest thing to a fire that I saw was someone blowing his PSU's caps by dumping water in it... not remotely close to normal use or abuse.

 

[Onus]

I thought it was eMachines, not Dell, that used those particularly onerous mobo-killing PSUs.

 

[Onus]

Here it is: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=154

 

[jbird2383]

I didn't lump up all of Antec;s Brand all together and I wasn't prejudging or insinuating them in any way or say they were bad, all I meant in that sentence was to help my point out that once your PSU goes your whole system is fried. Being close to threshold capacity is to risky to me and the price difference is insignificant when you consider long term life of the build.
I like Antec's and used them over the years I wasn't saying anything bad and I do recommend there products. I 've rebuilt 2 systems that got toasted due the PSU VRM went and fyred the mobo and all the other devices. 1 had a Antec.
How about the VRM in the PSU unit? There's a chip that once gets burned out can't regulate the voltage to all the devices and thats what happened to the system it cooked all the devices. The system wasn't overclock and had 2 WD Raptors, Amd Socket 939 FX cpu, Asus Mobo Nvidiia graphics direct x 9 video card with a Antec Case and Power Supply. Not sure in the exact specs and models but this was a system I rebuilt like 3 or 4 years ago.

Newegg is always running deals on PSU at the 60 price point.
How can you ignore rebates on budget builds???? Budget minded individuals who are cost conscience are gonna consider rebates.

 

[jbird2383]

I have had Antec's blow up and once that VRM module is cooked there goes everything else in the system and at that point the money is burnt.

The only PSU I have that has ever fried components aside from itself is an old PC-XT PSU which has no protections whatsoever and could belch out around 10V on the 5V output after a partial short.

Under most circumstances, it will take a PSU more than 30us to rise from 12.5 to 13V due to internal and external capacitance while over-voltage protections have response times in the 0.1-10us range so it should be nearly impossible for a bad PSU to fry a properly designed load that has a properly designed OVP... unless the unnecessarily powerful PSU blows up the load's OVP first with its 40+A single-rail supply - OVP protections work by shorting PSU output(s) to ground but that does not work if the PSU can dish out enough current to blow up the OVP or fry the load's wiring/PCB without tripping itself.

Power spikes and surges don't occur?? Lightening strikes?? Components fail and the electricity does damage. In my experience it happened twice where a whole system was dead and I didn't point the blame to the Antec brand just that is happens.

 

[InvalidError]

Here it is: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=154

No mention of smoke or fire in there other than Jonny expecting/wanting to see some but failed to get it and had to kill it so he had to finish it off with the usual tear-down.

He would probably get better luck getting his desired result with a dustier unit but then, excessive dust accumulation would be a user maintenance failure rather than an equipment manufacturer failure.

 

[InvalidError]

That is the whole problem , they will not die but continue to heat up and eventually leading to a fire.

Except Jonny did all he could to do just that and never even managed to kill it until he gave up on trying and dismantled it. While there were some signs of one spot on the PCB running somewhat hot, this is by no means an imminent sign of impending failure when the hot components causing the PCB discoloration are 2-3W ceramic resistors.

I have a 20 years old CRT TV which has a small transistor that is part of the standby switch circuitry. That transistor uses the copper plane as its heatsink and the PCB around it is deep-brown. The only problem I have had with that TV is the heat causing the plating on that transistor to come off so I had to re-solder it.

PCB thermal discoloration may seem alarming but in many cases, it actually is no cause for concern.

 

[InvalidError]

I have replaced two at my office both with black soot on the grill after it overheated. A power supply that fails and does not shut down will blow more than your motherboard

But UL certification is not about how many computers a PSU will fry before shutting down/self-destruct or some burnt some dust. It is about whether or not the design contains intrinsic design flaws and sample units off the production line can fail in potentially harmful (to humans) ways.

As long as the PSU has proper electrical ground, electrical isolation between primary and secondary sides (to prevent unexpected 50-400V from showing up on low-voltage outputs), flame retardant in non-metal/ceramic materials (to prevent them from producing self-sustainable flames should the device ever catch fire), pressure relief valves on caps to prevent them from blowing up in a way that could produce shrapnel, etc. even the worst PSUs ever produced can get UL certification.

In UL certification, it is OK for devices to catch fire and explode as long as that fire or explosion are self-contained and put themselves out after a few seconds. This does not include dust though - keeping equipment relatively clean and dust-free (at least to a level where it does not pose a fire or explosion hazard) is entirely your responsibility.

 

[jbird2383]

I just assume not to trust a p/s that will fry burn and overheat even if it puts itself out

Components fail and shit happens I think there all vulnerable with the manufacturing process and business challenges. Cheap stuff never really works. I like stuff thoroughly tested and R and D alot I try not to tax my psu to heavily to avoid any issues. If you live in a are with alot of storms they have line conditioners to supply clean power from your wall that will help it out to avoid power spikes.

I've used different brands , Corsair -Antec - Raidmax- SeaSonic XFX CoolerMaster, ThermalTake. I leave my setup open and once every 3 months I'll use a shop vac and just blow all the dust out and vacuum it out. My rule of thumb for PSU get something strong and invest in something that can carry anything I put in over the years. I like to upgrade when something new and fast comes out or when I catch a deal or two here and there.
I'v always bought max watts, max amps on the 12V rail for nvidia cards,
something that has vents, decent fan. I like active phasing, modular, and sleeved PSU's. Anything 80 bronze and up certified.

The cases they sell with PSU's I'll only buy for like a facebook internet setup.

 

[aeromech99]

I have a ATI Radeon 4870 HD X2. I'm having trouble finding a case that I don't need to cut out structure to fit it in. I'm wondering if this case is my solution. The card in this build looks to be a similar size.

 

[Toni Vicente]

The AMD processor is with the idea of ​​overclocking, but if i dont want to overclocking, what is the alternative? i5 3570, 180€ aprox?