[SOLVED] System doesn't post if I change the RAM settings in the slightest

[bureksasir]

Hi,

so I have recently built a new PC and I decided to play with overclocking a little bit, downloaded Thaiphoon burner and Ryzen DRAM calculator, set all the values correctly, no post, motherboard stuck at CPU debug LED, peripherals don't light up, no video signal, OK. Reset CMOS, played with the voltages for a bit, still no post. Did that about 10 times. Then I also tried the MSI's "Memory try it" feature, which also resulted in a no post. Could it be that I just simply didn't win the sillicon lottery at all? RAM is stable with XMP.

Specs:

CPU: Ryzen 5 3600X @3.8Ghz, 4.3Ghz Turbo (PBO on) (no OC) (Stock cooler)
MOBO: MSI B450 Tomahawk Max (flashed to the latest BIOS)
RAM: 16GB G.Skill Trident Z RGB 3600Mhz CL18 2x8GB kit (F4-3600C18D-16GTZRX)
GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1660 Ti GAMING OC 6G (GV-N166TGAMING OC-6GD)
PSU: Corsair RM850X (2018 model)
STORAGE:
Samsung 860 Evo 1TB (Sata 3, 6Gb) (Boot drive, apps, games)
Seagate Barracuda 1TB 7200RPM HDD (Sata 3, 6Gb) (Backup drive)
OS: Windows 10 Home (Build 2004)
CASE: NZXT H510 (if needed)

PERIPHERALS: (if needed)
MONITOR: Samsung S27E510C
KEYBOARD: Corsair K70 RGB RAPIDFIRE
MOUSE: Logitech G502
SPEAKERS: Logitech Z333

Thanks,

open to any questions.

 

[extreme_noob]

DRAM calculator isnt always 100% correct, for timings or voltage. Sometimes the values it spits it just wont post at all. On the other hand, it is also very possible that you "lost" the silicon lottery, as 3600CL18 is not a very impressive bin, and a ton of ICs can do it. What IC did Thaiphoon say it was, and what timings did dram calculator give you?

1usmus also made a guide for ram overclocking, and the whole thing is worth a read, but here's the section on troubleshooting, which may help: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/8.html

 

[Karadjgne]

You don't want to OC faster or you'll run into fclock issues and get worse performance. Best you can do is tighten the timings, if the ram will get to 3600/16 I'd call it a success and leave it alone.

The problem with high Cas ram is that it's one of 2 things. It's either a demanded contract fulfillment (as in someone ordered X amount of 3600/18 kits) or its a leftover after binning process failed 3600/16 but it passed 3600/18. At that point, the OEM sells the 3600/18 to the highest bidder, which is most often 3rd party OEMs like HP, Dell, Lenovo etc.

Which means you have a 33/33/33% chance, it could be no worries to tighten timings or will fail without extreme measures or will fail utterly.

 

[bureksasir]

DRAM calculator isnt always 100% correct, for timings or voltage. Sometimes the values it spits it just wont post at all. On the other hand, it is also very possible that you "lost" the silicon lottery, as 3600CL18 is not a very impressive bin, and a ton of ICs can do it. What IC did Thaiphoon say it was, and what timings did dram calculator give you?

1usmus also made a guide for ram overclocking, and the whole thing is worth a read, but here's the section on troubleshooting, which may help: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-memory-tweaking-overclocking-guide/8.html

Hi,

I suppose this is everything you need, I have also tried playing with the SoC voltages and the DRAM voltages, nothing helped.

DRAM calculator: https://prnt.sc/svg7oq

MANUFACTURING DESCRIPTION

Module Manufacturer:	G.Skill
Module Part Number:	F4-3600C18-8GTZRX
Module Series:	Trident Z RGB for AMD
DRAM Manufacturer:	Samsung
DRAM Components:	K4A8G085WB-BCPB
DRAM Die Revision / Process Node:	B / 20 nm
Module Manufacturing Date:	Undefined
Module Manufacturing Location:	Taipei, Taiwan
Module Serial Number:	00000000h
Module PCB Revision:	00h

PHYSICAL & LOGICAL ATTRIBUTES

Fundamental Memory Class:	DDR4 SDRAM
Module Speed Grade:	DDR4-2133
Base Module Type:	UDIMM (133.35 mm)
Module Capacity:	8 GB
Reference Raw Card:	A1 (10 layers)
JEDEC Raw Card Designer:	SK hynix
Module Nominal Height:	31 < H <= 32 mm
Module Thickness Maximum, Front:	1 < T <= 2 mm
Module Thickness Maximum, Back:	1 < T <= 2 mm
Number of DIMM Ranks:	1
Address Mapping from Edge Connector to DRAM:	Standard
DRAM Device Package:	Standard Monolithic
DRAM Device Package Type:	78-ball FBGA
DRAM Device Die Count:	Single die
Signal Loading:	Not specified
Number of Column Addresses:	10 bits
Number of Row Addresses:	16 bits
Number of Bank Addresses:	2 bits (4 banks)
Bank Group Addressing:	2 bits (4 groups)
DRAM Device Width:	8 bits
Programmed DRAM Density:	8 Gb
Calculated DRAM Density:	8 Gb
Number of DRAM components:	8
DRAM Page Size:	1 KB
Primary Memory Bus Width:	64 bits
Memory Bus Width Extension:	0 bits
DRAM Post Package Repair:	Supported
Soft Post Package Repair:	Supported

DRAM TIMING PARAMETERS

Fine Timebase:	0.001 ns
Medium Timebase:	0.125 ns
CAS Latencies Supported:	10T, 11T, 12T, 13T, 14T, 15T, 16T
Minimum Clock Cycle Time (tCK min):	0.938 ns (1066.10 MHz)
Maximum Clock Cycle Time (tCK max):	1.600 ns (625.00 MHz)
CAS# Latency Time (tAA min):	13.750 ns
RAS# to CAS# Delay Time (tRCD min):	13.750 ns
Row Precharge Delay Time (tRP min):	13.750 ns
Active to Precharge Delay Time (tRAS min):	33.000 ns
Act to Act/Refresh Delay Time (tRC min):	46.750 ns
Normal Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC1 min):	350.000 ns
2x mode Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC2 min):	260.000 ns
4x mode Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC4 min):	160.000 ns
Short Row Active to Row Active Delay (tRRD_S min):	3.700 ns
Long Row Active to Row Active Delay (tRRD_L min):	5.300 ns
Write Recovery Time (tWR min):	15.000 ns
Short Write to Read Command Delay (tWTR_S min):	2.500 ns
Long Write to Read Command Delay (tWTR_L min):	7.500 ns
Long CAS to CAS Delay Time (tCCD_L min):	5.625 ns
Four Active Windows Delay (tFAW min):	21.000 ns
Maximum Active Window (tMAW):	8192*tREFI
Maximum Activate Count (MAC):	Unlimited MAC
DRAM VDD 1.20 V operable/endurant:	Yes/Yes

THERMAL PARAMETERS

Module Thermal Sensor:

Not Incorporated

INTEGRATED TEMPERATURE SENSOR

Manufacturer:	OnSemi
Model:	N34TS04
Revision:	30h
Temperature Monitor Status:	Active
Current Ambient Temperature:	38.688 °C
Sensor Resolution:	0.0625 °C (12-bit ADC)
Accuracy over the active range (75 °C to 95 °C):	±1 °C
Accuracy over the monitoring range (40 °C to 125 °C):	±2 °C
Open-drain Event Output:	Disabled
10V of VHV on A0 pin:	Supported
Negative Temperature Measurements:	Supported
Interrupt capabilities:	Supported
SMBus timeout period for TS access:	25 to 35 ms

SPD PROTOCOL

SPD Revision:	1.1
SPD Bytes Total:	512
SPD Bytes Used:	384
SPD Checksum (Bytes 00h-7Dh):	242Dh (OK)
SPD Checksum (Bytes 80h-FDh):	A01Ch (OK)

PART NUMBER DETAILS

JEDEC DIMM Label:

8GB 1Rx8 PC4-2133-UA1-11

Frequency	CAS	RCD	RP	RAS	RC	RRDS	RRDL	WR	WTRS	WTRL	FAW
1067 MHz	16	15	15	36	50	4	6	16	3	8	23
1067 MHz	15	15	15	36	50	4	6	16	3	8	23
933 MHz	14	13	13	31	44	4	5	14	3	7	20
933 MHz	13	13	13	31	44	4	5	14	3	7	20
800 MHz	12	11	11	27	38	3	5	12	2	6	17
800 MHz	11	11	11	27	38	3	5	12	2	6	17
667 MHz	10	10	10	22	32	3	4	10	2	5	14

INTEL EXTREME MEMORY PROFILES

XMP PARAMETER	PROFILE 1	PROFILE 2
Profiles Revision: 2.0
Profile 1 (Certified) Enables: Yes
Profile 2 (Extreme) Enables: No
Profile 1 Channel Config: 2 DIMM/channel
Speed Grade:	DDR4-3604	N/A
DRAM Clock Frequency:	1802 MHz	N/A
Module VDD Voltage Level:	1.35 V	N/A
Minimum DRAM Cycle Time (tCK):	0.555 ns	N/A
CAS Latencies Supported:	18T	N/A
CAS Latency Time (tAA):	9.759 ns	N/A
RAS# to CAS# Delay Time (tRCD):	12.039 ns	N/A
Row Precharge Delay Time (tRP):	12.039 ns	N/A
Active to Precharge Delay Time (tRAS):	23.250 ns	N/A
Active to Active/Refresh Delay Time (tRC):	35.479 ns	N/A
Four Activate Window Delay Time (tFAW):	24.000 ns	N/A
Short Activate to Activate Delay Time (tRRD_S):	2.029 ns	N/A
Long Activate to Activate Delay Time (tRRD_L):	4.849 ns	N/A
Normal Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC1):	350.000 ns	N/A
2x mode Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC2):	260.000 ns	N/A
4x mode Refresh Recovery Delay Time (tRFC4):	160.000 ns	N/A

You don't want to OC faster or you'll run into fclock issues and get worse performance. Best you can do is tighten the timings, if the ram will get to 3600/16 I'd call it a success and leave it alone.

The problem with high Cas ram is that it's one of 2 things. It's either a demanded contract fulfillment (as in someone ordered X amount of 3600/18 kits) or its a leftover after binning process failed 3600/16 but it passed 3600/18. At that point, the OEM sells the 3600/18 to the highest bidder, which is most often 3rd party OEMs like HP, Dell, Lenovo etc.

Which means you have a 33/33/33% chance, it could be no worries to tighten timings or will fail without extreme measures or will fail utterly.

Hi,

sorry, forgot to specify I only wanted to tighten the timings. (16-21-21-42) + subtimings.

 

[extreme_noob]

It's possible this could be mislabelled C die, as Gskill and Corsair make that mistake more often than they should, and if so, you may not be able to hit 3600CL16 at all. But try out some of the troubleshooting tips I sent earlier, and see if that helps.

 

[bureksasir]

It's possible this could be mislabelled C die, as Gskill and Corsair make that mistake more often than they should, and if so, you may not be able to hit 3600CL16 at all. But try out some of the troubleshooting tips I sent earlier, and see if that helps.

Oh my god,

thank you so much, I legit didn't think about that at all, went to the motherboard's QVL list and sure enough it was SK Hynix C-die. The only question I have left is, which is better for overclocking? Just wondering. Thank you so much.

 

[extreme_noob]

Oh my god,

thank you so much, I legit didn't think about that at all, went to the motherboard's QVL list and sure enough it was SK Hynix C-die. The only question I have left is, which is better for overclocking? Just wondering. Thank you so much.

Hynix CJR (C die) scales worse than Samsung B die, and is less voltage tolerant. at 3600CL18 bin, I'm not sure if you can hit 3600CL16, though its worth a shot. Might want to check DRAM calculator again for CJR.