Question System Freeze & Shutdown unexpectly

brain_trust

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Dec 31, 2007
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Hi mate,

Here my problem, previously my system (Windows 10) freeze randomly, when it freeze, everything still running like fans & light but mouse & keyboard hang.

There is no error message shown

What I did
  • Removed cables & hardware
  • Changed RAM slots
  • Replaced thermal paste
  • Reformatted windows on 3 different hardisks (2 HDD & 1 SDD)
After that, the system still freeze same like before

Then, I did again
  • Changed graphic card
  • Changed slot graphic card
  • Performed Extended Windows Memory Diagnosis (No error)
  • Updated BIOS
Now, freeze is gone & my system shutdown unexpectedly without any error msg, but fans & lights still running like usual except blank screen, keyboard & mouse light off

I normally will press reset button to restart my system again, between I also noticed the fan of my graphic card sometime running & sometimes not

My SPECS
  • AMD Ryzen 5 2600
  • Asrock B450 Fatal1ty K4
  • 8gb DDR4-2400 & 8gb DDR4-2666
  • GTX 1060 6gb
  • PSU FSP Hexa 500W
  • Samsung SDD 860 Evo 250gb
Thank you for your help
 
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Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
You are using two entirely different memory modules, so honestly, all bets are off as far as compatibility is concerned. It's highly likely that you are getting errors from poor memory configuration. Remove one of the memory modules and see if the problem persists.

Furthermore, do NOT "change RAM slots". There is only ONE way that the memory is supposed to be installed. One. That is all.

If you have ONE memory module installed, then it goes in the A2 slot. If you have two memory modules installed then they go in the A2 and B2 slots. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter with a third module and with a fourth module obviously all slots will be full. The A2 and B2 slots are the second and fourth slots away from the CPU socket. A few ASUS boards put the A2 slot closest to the edge of the motherboard but for ALL other B450 motherboards the A2 slot will be the second slot away from the CPU socket. So put ONE stick of RAM in the A2 slot and do not install the other stick of RAM.

Then, do a hard reset of the CMOS as detailed below, and see if the problem persists. If it does, try the other stick of RAM in the same slot, and again do a hard reset of the CMOS to clear out any old settings from the previous configuration.




BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.
 

brain_trust

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You are using two entirely different memory modules, so honestly, all bets are off as far as compatibility is concerned. It's highly likely that you are getting errors from poor memory configuration. Remove one of the memory modules and see if the problem persists.

Furthermore, do NOT "change RAM slots". There is only ONE way that the memory is supposed to be installed. One. That is all.

If you have ONE memory module installed, then it goes in the A2 slot. If you have two memory modules installed then they go in the A2 and B2 slots. Beyond that, it really doesn't matter with a third module and with a fourth module obviously all slots will be full. The A2 and B2 slots are the second and fourth slots away from the CPU socket. A few ASUS boards put the A2 slot closest to the edge of the motherboard but for ALL other B450 motherboards the A2 slot will be the second slot away from the CPU socket. So put ONE stick of RAM in the A2 slot and do not install the other stick of RAM.

Then, do a hard reset of the CMOS as detailed below, and see if the problem persists. If it does, try the other stick of RAM in the same slot, and again do a hard reset of the CMOS to clear out any old settings from the previous configuration.




BIOS Hard Reset procedure

Power off the unit, switch the PSU off and unplug the PSU cord from either the wall or the power supply.

Remove the motherboard CMOS battery for five minutes. In some cases it may be necessary to remove the graphics card to access the CMOS battery.

During that five minutes, press the power button on the case, continuously, for 30 seconds. After the five minutes is up, reinstall the CMOS battery making sure to insert it with the correct side up just as it came out.

If you had to remove the graphics card you can now reinstall it, but remember to reconnect your power cables if there were any attached to it as well as your display cable.

Now, plug the power supply cable back in, switch the PSU back on and power up the system. It should display the POST screen and the options to enter CMOS/BIOS setup. Enter the bios setup program and reconfigure the boot settings for either the Windows boot manager or for legacy systems, the drive your OS is installed on if necessary.

Save settings and exit. If the system will POST and boot then you can move forward from there including going back into the bios and configuring any other custom settings you may need to configure such as Memory XMP, A-XMP or D.O.C.P profile settings, custom fan profile settings or other specific settings you may have previously had configured that were wiped out by resetting the CMOS.

In some cases it may be necessary when you go into the BIOS after a reset, to load the Optimal default or Default values and then save settings, to actually get the hardware tables to reset in the boot manager.

I already did, installed 1 module RAM, hard reset & changed another RAM, hard reset again, but the problem still persist, sudden shut down for both modules RAM
 
Nov 15, 2020
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Even if you did the CMOS reset, you may have some issue where the power draw is too high with that 500W PSU. Suggest you plug in bare minimum components of mouse, keyboard, monitor and make sure no other USB devices or thumbdrives are stuck anywhere on the comp.

If you did that,
I would check if your RAM is on the QVL sheet for your motherboard. Not that I am an expert here, but assuming since AMD is less optimal for RAM compatibility listing, RAM could be unreliable for your motherboard. I think I had these exact symptoms when I did my first build with RAM not on the list.
 
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brain_trust

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Even if you did the CMOS reset, you may have some issue where the power draw is too high with that 500W PSU. Suggest you plug in bare minimum components of mouse, keyboard, monitor and make sure no other USB devices or thumbdrives are stuck anywhere on the comp.

If you did that, I would check if your RAM is on the QVL sheet for your motherboard. Not that I am an expert here, but assuming since AMD is less optimal for RAM compatibility listing, RAM could be unreliable for your motherboard. I think I had these exact symptoms when I did my first build with RAM not on the list.
My builds almost 1 year, so far everything running smooth, the freeze only happen this week
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
Even if you did the CMOS reset, you may have some issue where the power draw is too high with that 500W PSU.
No, this is not factual. And frankly, it makes very little sense. His system needs far less than 500w. It's definitely not a great model of PSU, but unless it's fairly old or is faulty, which are entirely different issues than simply "power draw is too high for 500w", then it shouldn't cause a no POST issue.

Chances ARE good however that you have a PSU issue simply due to the fact that the PSU you have is not very good. How long has that power supply been in service? Did you have this in use on a prior system before this one?
 

brain_trust

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No, this is not factual. And frankly, it makes very little sense. His system needs far less than 500w. It's definitely not a great model of PSU, but unless it's fairly old or is faulty, which are entirely different issues than simply "power draw is too high for 500w", then it shouldn't cause a no POST issue.

Chances ARE good however that you have a PSU issue simply due to the fact that the PSU you have is not very good. How long has that power supply been in service? Did you have this in use on a prior system before this one?

My PSU around 1 years old, I just facing this issue now, never happen before
 

brain_trust

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Your power supply is not good quality or performance. This review is for the 400w version, but the 500w version is same quality. Both are FSP's extreme budget platforms and are very old. If you bought that PSU a year ago, then it was sitting on somebody's shelf for a LONG time.

Okay, waiting for my new PSU to test, hopefully it solves my problem

in meantime, I bought, new GPU (GTX 1660) & new motherboard (B450M), but the problem still the same, display suddenly blank despite all the lights n fans running as usual
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
What is the actual model of the new motherboard? Why did you get a new motherboard? The motherboard you had should have been fine, and if it wasn't, then it should have been under warranty still. Motherboards generally have a 3 year warranty in most cases.
 

brain_trust

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What is the actual model of the new motherboard? Why did you get a new motherboard? The motherboard you had should have been fine, and if it wasn't, then it should have been under warranty still. Motherboards generally have a 3 year warranty in most cases.
yes, still under warranty, my current motherboard Asrock Fatal1ty K4 B450, and bought Asrock B450M Steel Legend

I bough new one, because I really need to use my PC, but not sure which one giving a problem
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
I understand. They are both decent mid level-ish boards. I can see getting the micro ATX version for cost savings since you're not sure if it's the problem or not.

So, if you bought a new graphics card, a new motherboard, have reinstalled Windows 3 times and have run numerous tests, that definitely makes a strong case for it being the power supply as I said originally. It might not be, but right now it sure looks guilty.
 

brain_trust

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So far, I changed

  • Asrock B450M Steel Legend (New)
  • 1st Player SteamPunk PS-650SP (650w Rated) Gold Plus (New)
  • ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1660 AMP 6GB GDDR5 (New)
But the system still shutdown randomly

Very frustrated :mad:
 

Darkbreeze

Retired Mod
1st Player SteamPunk PS-650SP (650w Rated) Gold Plus (New)
This is not a solution. This is intentionally installing another problem. It's not terrible, but it CERTAINLY wouldn't be on my list of recommended units considering it's price vs the list of problems it has.

  • ChengX caps on the secondary side
  • Low quality sleeve bearing fan
  • Very low hold-up time
  • PSU OFF To Full +12V performance problem
  • High OCP triggering points on the minor rails
  • Transient response at +3.3 V
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/1st-player-steampunk-ps-750sp-750-w/7.html

Since there are no reviews of the 650w model, we have to assume we can use the 750w review to judge quality. And while it's not a dumpster fire, it definitely isn't worth the price, and has some moderately undesirable issues. Also, this may well have been a cherry picked model sent to Aris for review. Retail models might have significantly worse build quality and performance, but we have to assume otherwise for now since we have no proof of that, which itself is a concern.

Assuming however that the PSU is not the problem if you are still having the exact same issue as before,

I would pull the hardware and build it on the bench for testing. Pay particular attention to whether there might be a standoff where one shouldn't be under the motherboard. Using my bench testing guide you should hopefully be able to narrow down where the problem is. Make sure as well that you have tried ALL of the memory modules, one at a time, in the correct slot (A2).

Also, make SURE you have the latest STABLE BIOS version installed.


Another consideration might be that Windows is corrupt. When was the last time a clean install was done?

It might be a good idea to run through ALL of these test procedures.

If there are any steps listed here that you have not already done, it would be advisable to do so if for no other reason than to be able to say you've already done it and eliminate that possibility.



First,

Make sure your motherboard has the MOST recent BIOS version installed. If it does not, then update. This solves a high number of issues even in cases where the release that is newer than yours makes no mention of improving graphics card or other hardware compatibility. They do not list every change they have made when they post a new BIOS release.


Second,

Go to the product page for your motherboard on the manufacturer website. Download and install the latest driver versions for the chipset, storage controllers, audio and network adapters. Do not skip installing a newer driver just because you think it is not relevant to the problem you are having. The drivers for one device can often affect ALL other devices and a questionable driver release can cause instability in the OS itself. They don't release new drivers just for fun. If there is a new driver release for a component, there is a good reason for it. The same goes for BIOS updates. When it comes to the chipset drivers, if your motherboard manufacturer lists a chipset driver that is newer than what the chipset developer (Intel or AMD, for our purposes) lists, then use that one. If Intel (Or AMD) shows a chipset driver version that is newer than what is available from the motherboard product page, then use that one. Always use the newest chipset driver that you can get and always use ONLY the chipset drivers available from either the motherboard manufacturer, AMD or Intel.


IF you have other hardware installed or attached to the system that are not a part of the systems covered by the motherboard drivers, then go to the support page for THAT component and check to see if there are newer drivers available for that as well. If there are, install them.


Third,

Make sure your memory is running at the correct advertised speed in the BIOS. This may require that you set the memory to run at the XMP profile settings. Also, make sure you have the memory installed in the correct slots and that they are running in dual channel which you can check by installing CPU-Z and checking the Memory and SPD tabs. For all modern motherboards that are dual channel memory architectures, from the last ten years at least, if you have two sticks installed they should be in the A2 (Called DDR4_1 on some boards) or B2 (Called DDR4_2 on some boards) which are ALWAYS the SECOND and FOURTH slots over from the CPU socket, counting TOWARDS the edge of the motherboard EXCEPT on boards that only have two memory slots total. In that case, if you have two modules it's not rocket science, but if you have only one, then install it in the A1 or DDR4_1 slot.



Fourth (And often tied for most important along with an up-to-date motherboard BIOS),

A clean install of the graphics card drivers. Regardless of whether you "already installed the newest drivers" for your graphics card or not, it is OFTEN a good idea to do a CLEAN install of the graphics card drivers. Just installing over the old drivers OR trying to use what Nvidia and AMD consider a clean install is not good enough and does not usually give the same result as using the Display Driver Uninstaller utility. This has a very high success rate and is always worth a shot.


If you have had both Nvidia and AMD cards installed at any point on that operating system then you will want to run the DDU twice. Once for the old card drivers (ie, Nvidia or AMD) and again for the currently installed graphics card drivers (ie, AMD or Nvidia). So if you had an Nvidia card at some point in the past, run it first for Nvidia and then after that is complete, run it again for AMD if you currently have an AMD card installed.



And last, but not least, if you have never done a CLEAN install of Windows, or have upgraded from an older version to Windows 10, or have been through several spring or fall major Windows updates, it might be a very good idea to consider doing a clean install of Windows if none of these other solutions has helped. IF you are using a Windows installation from a previous system and you didn't do a clean install of Windows after building the new system, then it's 99.99% likely that you NEED to do a CLEAN install before trying any other solutions.


How to do a CLEAN installation of Windows 10, the RIGHT way
 

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