Question System upgrade

[elitech]

Hello everyone,

The community has been extremely helpful in the past, so I am reaching out once more. I am asking/looking for ideas to upgrade my current system (built in 2018). Wondering what upgrade(s) would give me best bang for buck. I do not have a high budget (up to $300, can be stretched to more if the gain is worth it).

I feel I should probably invest into more/better RAM, but suggestions are welcome. I haven't noticed any problems so far on my system while playing (knock on wood).

I am in the US.

My current build can be found below:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor ($330.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Gigabyte B360M DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: TEAMGROUP Dark 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 CL16 Memory
Storage: Crucial MX500 500 GB M.2-2280 SATA Solid State Drive
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200 RPM Internal Hard Drive ($38.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte WINDFORCE OC GeForce GTX 1080 8 GB Video Card
Case: Corsair Carbide Series 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($164.49 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair TX550M Gold 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM - DVD 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Acer ED242QR Abidpx 23.6" 1920 x 1080 144 Hz Curved Monitor ($193.00 @ Amazon)
Total: $846.47
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-05-11 09:31 EDT-0400

Thank you,

 

[punkncat]

On that budget I would suggest doubling RAM, perhaps replace the HDD in system for an SSD. You 'could' look for a used 9xxx CPU, but I don't really think the gain from it would be worthwhile.

If you were to go after a graphics card that would also include an update to the power supply, so budget isn't going to allow for that. Pretty much the same with upgrading the CPU/motherboard. I think even the combo deals Micro Center is doing are starting at around $350, if one is even close to you.

 

[elitech]

On that budget I would suggest doubling RAM, perhaps replace the HDD in system for an SSD. You 'could' look for a used 9xxx CPU, but I don't really think the gain from it would be worthwhile.

If you were to go after a graphics card that would also include an update to the power supply, so budget isn't going to allow for that. Pretty much the same with upgrading the CPU/motherboard. I think even the combo deals Micro Center is doing are starting at around $350, if one is even close to you.

Thank you for your input.

Doubling RAM - that's what I was thinking, but do I buy another 2x8 (for total of 32) or do I buy 4x16 (total 64)? I believe my motherboard can take up to 64 GB. At that point, if I go for 4x16, what would be recommended (all these latency, CAS, speed... options/stuff makes my head hurt).

Also, what kind of MC combo deals? There is one close-ish...

 

[Why_Me]

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: *Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor ($160.85 @ B&H)
Motherboard: *MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($104.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $264.85
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
*Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria
Generated by PCPartPicker 2023-05-11 12:25 EDT-0400

 

[punkncat]

That 8th gen i7 is only looking for 2666 speed. Anything over that would be XMP/overclock.

Best practice is to purchase a matching set. I have found over the years that Intel refresh is pretty forgiving on RAM. I might look to see if you can find another 2X set of what you have now, that is a pretty common type. Purchase from somewhere with a good return policy just in case. In the case that you have to buy a 4X set I might suggest looking into whether you will update to a DDR4 or DDR5 rig next. If you are planning to do a 'behind the curve' update on sale prices (for instance) I would purchase the RAM based on what you think that might be.

@Why_Me is astounding at finding good deals, like the one above if you wanted to update the core components instead.

edit- I would mention in light of the leak over at MSI, that if you get their motherboard be exceptionally careful that you are only on the manufacturer page to manually do your base drivers and updates.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/msi-bootguard-keys-leaked-to-internet

Surf over to microcenter's web page and typically up in the right corner will be a couple of mentions to combo deals they have going on. Right now they have both 12th and 13th gen Intel, as well as 7xxx Ryzen. They have had both 5xxx and 3xxx deals as well, but suspect at least the 3xxx ones are gone by now. They are at my local (2) stores.

 

[elitech]

Thank you both very much for your responses.

@punkncat I don't know when I'll upgrade to the next rig, but it won't be for at least another 2-3 years.

I'm still wondering if it's worth going to 64GB of RAM on current machine? Or should I just keep it at 32GB since other components are the bottleneck?

Trying to find the same RAM, but no luck. For 32GB, would something like this be good?

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/xMVG3C/gskill-aegis-64-gb-4-x-16-gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c16q-32gis

Or

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ghPzK8/corsair-memory-cmk32gx4m4a2666c16

If 64GB is recommended, is this the way to go? https://pcpartpicker.com/product/7Xbkcf/gskill-memory-f43200c16q64gvk

Again, I get lost in all these numbers/characteristics of RAM, so sorry if I post something that's not compatible with my MB.

Thank you,

 

[punkncat]

I am a fan of G Skill myself, have had really good results with their products. I like Corsair as well and haven't had any notable issues with it on Intel.

Basically speaking you have speed (which would be the 3200 part) and latency (often shown as 'CL'). For DDR4 anything at 16 is pretty good, and 14 is exceptional as well as expensive. The faster the RAM gets the latency tends to increase alongside that. There is a chart that shows this relationship somewhere...
To put it simply (and I am pulling numbers from my butt) something like 3000 CL14 can be just as fast as 3200 CL16 (once again, pulling from my butt) and thus why I mention that chart as you can use it to compare the speed and pricing to find a kit that suits your needs.
In a case like yours, I probably wouldn't be as concerned about speed/latency as I would be about price. At the end of the day, Intel CPU aren't as 'reactive' to fast RAM as AMD Ryzen is.

This is one of many results I got just typing in "RAM speed to latency chart":

The Difference Between RAM Speed and CAS Latency

Find out more about CAS latency, RAM speed, and how to measure memory performance.

www.crucial.com

 

[elitech]

Thanks for all the info!

So, 32 or 64 gigs of RAM? And any model recommendations?

 

[Eximo]

More memory only helps if you actually use it. Just having it sitting there won't do much good.

32GB is still the recommendation for today's gamer. Though 16GB is really plenty, there are a few new games that exceed that, so better to have 32GB. Quite a few games now coming with 16GB minimums.

 

[elitech]

More memory only helps if you actually use it. Just having it sitting there won't do much good.

32GB is still the recommendation for today's gamer. Though 16GB is really plenty, there are a few new games that exceed that, so better to have 32GB. Quite a few games now coming with 16GB minimums.

Sounds reasonable, 32GB it is! I assume 4x8 would be better than 2x16?

Any recommendations on the best RAM model(s) for my current setup? I cannot find the same model I already have, so I have to get all new anyways...

 

[Eximo]

Sounds reasonable, 32GB it is! I assume 4x8 would be better than 2x16?

Any recommendations on the best RAM model(s) for my current setup? I cannot find the same model I already have, so I have to get all new anyways...

For this board, maybe. Not seeing anything on the QVL tested with 16GB sticks.

But generally 2x16GB is easier on the memory controller than 4x8GB.

There are some pretty cheap 4x8GB memory kits out there, so not the worst option.

 

[Lafong]

What do you do with the PC??

What problem are you trying to solve?

I'm wondering if you just have an upgrade itch with no specific expectations.

It's certainly possible you won't notice the difference between 16, 32, and 64 RAM.

Your existing stuff is 5 generations back in time.

I'd at least consider a new CPU/motherboard combination at Microcenter OR stockpiling more money.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I am a fan of G Skill myself, have had really good results with their products. I like Corsair as well and haven't had any notable issues with it on Intel.

Same here. Always used their ram.

More memory only helps if you actually use it. Just having it sitting there won't do much good.

32GB is still the recommendation for today's gamer. Though 16GB is really plenty, there are a few new games that exceed that, so better to have 32GB. Quite a few games now coming with 16GB minimums.

I'd agree... I have 64GB but is it used? Not in gaming.

If it were me OP I'd go with the core upgrades that Why_Me suggested... CPU, board... and 32GB ram.

 

[Eximo]

Same here. Always used their ram.



I'd agree... I have 64GB but is it used? Not in gaming.

If it were me OP I'd go with the core upgrades that Why_Me suggested... CPU, board... and 32GB ram.

For a DDR5 system 64GB makes more sense. Since you can potentially keep that board through 2 or more CPU upgrades, better to have it now than try and mix and match later. Though I don't see game requirements going up too massively as long as the current gen consoles are around.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

For a DDR5 system 64GB makes more sense. Since you can potentially keep that board through 2 or more CPU upgrades, better to have it now than try and mix and match later. Though I don't see game requirements going up too massively as long as the current gen consoles are around.

Makes sense... that's why I went with 64GB after all.

 

[elitech]

Thank you all for your inputs!

What do you do with the PC??

Gaming is the most resource intensive thing I do on the computer.

What problem are you trying to solve?

Looking at games/mods that now require 16GB of RAM and wondering/asking if anything could be done to improve my current system within the budget (up to $300, can be stretched to more if the gain is worth it). Punk recommended RAM upgrade, why_me went for cpu+mobo combo.

I'm wondering if you just have an upgrade itch with no specific expectations.

Expectations are to make my system somewhat better/add longevity to it if possible within budget.

It's certainly possible you won't notice the difference between 16, 32, and 64 RAM.

Does that mean it is certainly possible I will notice a difference? Hence my posted specs, as I'm asking people with more knowledge than myself to help and see what would be the best investment.

I believe its established that 32GB of RAM is plenty for my specs IF that is the route to go.

Is it worth upgrading to that CPU/mobo combo? What will give me more improvement? Any other ideas?

If I go for the combo:

CPU: *Intel Core i5-12400F 2.5 GHz 6-Core Processor ($160.85 @ B&H)
Motherboard: *MSI MAG B660M BAZOOKA DDR4 Micro ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($104.00 @ Newegg)
Total: $264.85

Is that just the first step in seeing any improvement? I can see on CPU benchmark that the i5 vastly outperforms what I have, but will something else be a bottleneck after that upgrade?

 

[Why_Me]

Thank you all for your inputs!

Gaming is the most resource intensive thing I do on the computer.

Or is that just the first step in seeing any improvement? I can see on CPU benchmark that the i5 vastly outperforms what I have, but will something else be a bottleneck after that upgrade?

The next logical upgrade would be the RAM.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bcnypg/team-t-force-vulcan-z-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-3200-cl16-memory-tlzgd432g3200hc16fdc01

TEAMGROUP T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4-3200 32GB (2x16GB) CL16 $55.99

btw make sure and add a LGA1700 compatible cpu cooler to that cpu.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09Z7VM85V/
Thermalright Assassin X 120 R SE CPU Cooler $20.90

 

[Eximo]

There are always bottlenecks, best to ignore that line of thinking. More like system limitations.

CPU will more or less set your maximum potential FPS.

GPU will set your maximum resolution and settings (some settings will increase system memory use as well)

Your GTX1080 is likely the limit for most games these days. Though games mods in particular can be poorly optimized and require a lot more CPU than the normal game.

A matter of testing, if you reduce game settings and gain no FPS, then the CPU is the limit. If you drastically lose FPS when increasing settings, GPU limitation. If you see memory usage maximized, then more memory is likely to help. (you can also track GPU memory usage)

For the money, getting the i5-12400F is a good course of action. If you feel inclined, that means later on you could install a 13700K or the like.

 

[elitech]

@Why_Me Basically, with CPU+MOBO+RAM+Cooler you posted, all that is ~$350, which sounds very reasonable for all the components. Would that be a best case scenario within the (rough) budget?

 

[Lafong]

I can see on CPU benchmark that the i5 vastly outperforms what I have, but will something else be a bottleneck after that upgrade?

You sound like the type who isn't regularly upgrading CPU and GPU.....you tend to keep parts for several years unless they fail outright.

You aren't going far with that CPU.

Can your 300 become 500 in 3 months or 6 months?

Are you so annoyed with the current hardware that you MUST buy something right away?

 

[elitech]

You sound like the type who isn't regularly upgrading CPU and GPU.....you tend to keep parts for several years unless they fail outright.

That is correct 😀

Can your 300 become 500 in 3 months or 6 months?

Perhaps, perhaps not. I know what I can do now, have no clue what's gonna be happening within the next 6 months.

Are you so annoyed with the current hardware that you MUST buy something right away?

No, and if the consensus here is that without i.e. $700 there is no real point in upgrading, then that's what it is and I won't upgrade.

 

[Why_Me]

@Why_Me Basically, with CPU+MOBO+RAM+Cooler you posted, all that is ~$350, which sounds very reasonable for all the components. Would that be a best case scenario within the (rough) budget?

That's what I would do with that budget. Later on look at the new gpu's due for release at the end of this month RE Nvidia RTX 4060 Ti, RTX 4060 and AMD RX 7600.

 

[punkncat]

As it stands, I feel like your system is pretty well balanced with the 8th gen i7 and the GTX 1080. Of no doubt, if you upgrade the CPU/mobo package your system is without doubt going to be stronger for CPU bound tasks. I doubt that you will see much by way of uplift in gaming simply due to the 1080 at that point.

I don't like to use the term "bottleneck" because it so often is used as a tech-speak marketing tool in order to convince people they need to buy something (else). I like the term above being used: "limitations".

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I don't like to use the term "bottleneck" because it so often is used as a tech-speak marketing tool in order to convince people they need to buy something (else). I like the term above being used: "limitations".

Exactly. Google bottleneck calculator and type in 7950x3D and 4090 and it will tell you that you are bottlenecked. 🤣🤣🤣

 

[Lafong]

I have no clue what's gonna be happening within the next 6 months.

No, and if the consensus here is that without i.e. $700 there is no real point in upgrading, then that's what it is and I won't upgrade.

300 dollars: 150 dollar board, 150 dollar CPU.

500 dollars: 200 dollar board, 300 dollar CPU.

That can be a considerable difference for most users.

700 dollars: not much marginal improvement from 500 if spent on only those 2 parts.

You say "no clue" of 6 months status. Not sure how literally you mean that. You might mean in 6 months, you will have zero to spend and can't buy anything.

I'd certainly use Microcenter if at all possible as there discounts can be highly attractive.

I'd say stockpile more money if at all possible. Likelihood of that is known only to you. Emphasize CPU and motherboard for the first 500 or so.