Tapping vs Summoning Sickness

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Hi all!

Me and my friends have some different opinions about tapping/summoning
sickness, and we would like to know who is right and who is wrong:

Player A permanents:
5 tapped Swamps
1 untapped Shepherd of Rot (has summoning sickness)
1 untapped Zombie Trailblazer (has summoning sickness)

Player B permanents:
4 untapped Islands
1 untapped Puppeteer (no summoning sickness)

It's now Main Phase of Player A. He has just summoned Shepherd of Rot and
Zombie Trailblazer.

Zombie Trailblazer
Color= Black
Type= Creature - Zombie
Cost= BBB
TO(U)

Text (TO+errata): 2/2. ; Tap an untapped Zombie you control: Target land
becomes a Swamp until end of turn. ; Tap an untapped Zombie you control:
Target creature gains swampwalk until end of turn. [Oracle 2003/07/01]


Shepherd of Rot
Color= Black
Type= Creature - Zombie Cleric
Cost= 1B
ON(C)

Text (ON): 1/1. ; {Tap}: Each player loses 1 life for each Zombie in play.


Puppeteer
Color= Blue
Type= Creature - Wizard
Cost= 2U
OD(U)/8(U)

Text (OD/8th): 1/2. ; {U},{Tap}: Tap or untap target creature.


We found in rules:

G19.27a - The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes
a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that include
the tap symbol when it has come under a player's control since the
beginning of that player's most recent turn. [CompRules 2003/07/01]


Which of following statements are true/false in this situation?

1. Player B can pay U and tap Puppeteer to tap Shepherd of Rot or Zombie
Trailblazer.

2. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use Shepherd's ability.

3. Player A cannot tap Zombie Trailblazer to use one of Zombie
Trailblazer's abilities

4. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use one of Zombie Trailblazer's
abilities


Thanks for help in advance!


--
Maciej "Sasha" Zalewski

GG# 1850769
mail: josif[WYTNIJTO]@klub.chip.pl
z mojego maila usuñ ca³y nawias kwadratowy

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"Maciej Zalewski" <josif[WYTNIJTO]@klub.chip.pl> writes:
> Me and my friends have some different opinions about tapping/summoning
> sickness, and we would like to know who is right and who is wrong:

Well, there's just one simple rule: If something is a creature, and
that something hasn't been under its current controller's control
since the beginning of his most recent turn, it can't attack or use
activated abilities that have the tap symbol in the activation cost.

> Player A permanents:
> 5 tapped Swamps
> 1 untapped Shepherd of Rot (has summoning sickness)
> 1 untapped Zombie Trailblazer (has summoning sickness)
>
> Player B permanents:
> 4 untapped Islands
> 1 untapped Puppeteer (no summoning sickness)
>
> It's now Main Phase of Player A. He has just summoned Shepherd of Rot and
> Zombie Trailblazer.
>
> Zombie Trailblazer
> Tap an untapped Zombie you control: Target land
> becomes a Swamp until end of turn. ; Tap an untapped Zombie you control:
> Target creature gains swampwalk until end of turn. [Oracle 2003/07/01]
>
> Shepherd of Rot
> {Tap}: Each player loses 1 life for each Zombie in play.
>
> Puppeteer
> {U},{Tap}: Tap or untap target creature.

> We found in rules:
>
> G19.27a - The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes
> a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that include
> the tap symbol when it has come under a player's control since the
> beginning of that player's most recent turn. [CompRules 2003/07/01]

Be careful. It looks like you're looking at a rulings file, which
while likely very accurate (and is correct here), it's not the
official rules. The rules are at <http://www.wizards.com/magic/comprules>.

The official rule is 212.3d:

,----[ Magic Comprehensive Rules ]
| 212.3d A creature's activated ability with the tap symbol in its
| activation cost can't be played unless the creature has been under
| its controller's control since the start of his or her most recent
| turn. A creature can't attack unless it has been under its
| controller's control since the start of his or her most recent
| turn. This rule is informally called the "summoning sickness"
| rule. Ignore this rule for creatures with haste (see rule 502.5).
`----

> Which of following statements are true/false in this situation?
>
> 1. Player B can pay U and tap Puppeteer to tap Shepherd of Rot or Zombie
> Trailblazer.

That's true. There's nothing odd going on here.

> 2. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use Shepherd's ability.

That's also true. The Shepherd of Rot's ability includes the tap
symbol, and it just came into play this turn.

> 3. Player A cannot tap Zombie Trailblazer to use one of Zombie
> Trailblazer's abilities

That statement is false. The Trailblazer's ability does not include
the tap symbol, so you can use it.

When the rules say the tap symbol, they really actually mean the
*symbol*. (Or more accurately, they mean the {T} in its Oracle text.)

> 4. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use one of Zombie Trailblazer's
> abilities

That statement is also false, for the same reason.

> Thanks for help in advance!

You're very welcome. Please post again if have any more questions.

--
Peter C.
"Uncle Cosmo ... why do they call this a word processor?"
"It's simple, Skyler ... you've seen what food processors do to food, right?"
-- MacNelley, "Shoe"

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Maciej Zalewski <josif[WYTNIJTO]@klub.chip.pl> wrote:
>Me and my friends have some different opinions about tapping/summoning
>sickness, and we would like to know who is right and who is wrong:

Well, first off, "summoning sickness" isn't an Official Magic Term, and hasn't
been for some time. That being said, though, it is a very usable -paradigm-
for the "with haste/without haste" rules.

All permanents become 'sick' on coming into play, and also on changing
controllers. (If something in play turns into a creature, that does NOT
affect whether it's 'sick' or not.)

A permanent stops being 'sick' as its controller's turn starts.

Only creatures care whether or not they are 'sick'; 'sick' creatures can't
attack, and can't use activated abilities they have which have the Tap-
symbol in the activation cost.

>Player A permanents:
>5 tapped Swamps
>1 untapped Shepherd of Rot (has summoning sickness)
>1 untapped Zombie Trailblazer (has summoning sickness)

The Shepherd can't use its activated ability; it's a creature, and the ability
has the tap-symbol in the activation cost.

The ZT can use either or both of its activated abilities; neither one has
the tap-symbol in the activation cost. It doesn't matter whether the Zombie
used to pay the cost is 'sick' or not.

>Player B permanents:
>4 untapped Islands
>1 untapped Puppeteer (no summoning sickness)

Its ability can be used.

>It's now Main Phase of Player A. He has just summoned Shepherd of Rot and
>Zombie Trailblazer.
>
>We found in rules:
>
>G19.27a - The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which describes
>a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities that include
>the tap symbol when it has come under a player's control since the
>beginning of that player's most recent turn. [CompRules 2003/07/01]

Right.

>Which of following statements are true/false in this situation?
>
>1. Player B can pay U and tap Puppeteer to tap Shepherd of Rot or Zombie
>Trailblazer.

Yes. The Puppeteer is not 'sick', so can use its activated-ability-with-Tap-
symbol-in-cost. Note that the ability, once on the stack, can be responded
to normally before it ever gets to resolve.

>2. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use Shepherd's ability.

Correct.

>3. Player A cannot tap Zombie Trailblazer to use one of Zombie
>Trailblazer's abilities

Not correct. Yes, the ZT is 'sick'. But neither of ZT's abilities has
the tap-symbol in the cost... so either one can be used. And nothing
about being 'sick' stops a creature from -tapping- as such. Being 'sick'
stops a creature from doing two different things, either of which can
+involve+ tapping it ... but it's nothing like "this can't become tapped".

>4. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use one of Zombie Trailblazer's
>abilities

Again, not correct. The ZT can use either one of its abilities; either
untapped Zombie is a perfectly good candidate to pay the activation cost
"Tap an untapped Zombie you control" with. The Shepherd can't use its -own-
ability, because that DOES have the tap-symbol in the activation cost.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Maciej Zalewski wrote:

> Hi all!
>
> Me and my friends have some different opinions about tapping/summoning
> sickness, and we would like to know who is right and who is wrong:
>
> Player A permanents:
> 5 tapped Swamps
> 1 untapped Shepherd of Rot (has summoning sickness)
> 1 untapped Zombie Trailblazer (has summoning sickness)
>
> Player B permanents:
> 4 untapped Islands
> 1 untapped Puppeteer (no summoning sickness)
>
> It's now Main Phase of Player A. He has just summoned Shepherd of Rot and
> Zombie Trailblazer.
>
> Zombie Trailblazer
> Color= Black
> Type= Creature - Zombie
> Cost= BBB
> TO(U)
>
> Text (TO+errata): 2/2. ; Tap an untapped Zombie you control: Target land
> becomes a Swamp until end of turn. ; Tap an untapped Zombie you control:
> Target creature gains swampwalk until end of turn. [Oracle 2003/07/01]
>
>
> Shepherd of Rot
> Color= Black
> Type= Creature - Zombie Cleric
> Cost= 1B
> ON(C)
>
> Text (ON): 1/1. ; {Tap}: Each player loses 1 life for each Zombie in play.
>
>
> Puppeteer
> Color= Blue
> Type= Creature - Wizard
> Cost= 2U
> OD(U)/8(U)
>
> Text (OD/8th): 1/2. ; {U},{Tap}: Tap or untap target creature.
>
>
> We found in rules:
>
> G19.27a - The term "summoning sickness" is an informal term which
> describes a creature's inability to attack or to use activated abilities
> that include the tap symbol when it has come under a player's control
^^^^^^^^^^
Note that; it's important! *Only* abilities with *tap symbol* cannot
be played.
> since the beginning of that player's most recent turn. [CompRules
> 2003/07/01]
>
>
> Which of following statements are true/false in this situation?
>
> 1. Player B can pay U and tap Puppeteer to tap Shepherd of Rot or Zombie
> Trailblazer.

True. There's no reason he can't. Abilities on a creature aren't
going to care if other creatures are summoning sick, even if those
abilities are tapping those other creatures.
>
> 2. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use Shepherd's ability.

Also correct. The Shepherd's ability has a tap symbol, and he's summoning
sick. He can't use it.
>
> 3. Player A cannot tap Zombie Trailblazer to use one of Zombie
> Trailblazer's abilities

False. The Trailblazer's abilities have the *word* tap, and require
you to tap as a cost, but do not have the tap symbol. The fact that
he's summoning sick therefore does not affect his abilities.
>
> 4. Player A cannot tap Shepherd of Rot to use one of Zombie Trailblazer's
> abilities

Also false, for the same reason as number 3.
>
>
> Thanks for help in advance!
>
>

--
Christopher Mattern

"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"