Question Task manager's performance view is stating different than processes view

editor1

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Hi all

After afk'n my vm that runs vpn and seeding. I have its ram set to 1,2,3 or 4 I have tested. My host Task manager's performance view is stating my memory is up at 9-9.3 gb used. My idle host is usually 2.3-3 gb without the VM up and running vpn/seeding. I have tested it.. if the vm is not running vpn and seeding the host is ok. I did a fresh install of a different windows 10 . 32bit this time.

So basically wen I look at the processes there is no way it adds up to 9+ gb of ram/mem used.

Any suggestions ?

PS. I forgot to mention. After task manage's performance view state's that pc is using 9gb I launch over 3 more vms with games runing and the task manage's performance view dos not change. Or if it does its only by 0.1-0.9 gb's.

EDIT: 9-9.3 gb is now commonly at 11 gb of used ram.
 
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Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Have you tried looking using Process Explorer?
Download Process explorer and run it as admin (it comes from Microsoft so its safe)

the default view is tree structure meaning like your task manager screen, it will show what processes are under each service, but unlike task manager, it shows the ram usage of each part so you can see what is eating your ram

Private bytes = actual ram usage
Working set = Ram + page file usage

This page shows what all the colours and headings mean, link at bottom of it shows how to use it to find problems. You can right click headers and run an av scan from within the program.
 

editor1

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Have you tried looking using Process Explorer?
Download Process explorer and run it as admin (it comes from Microsoft so its safe)

the default view is tree structure meaning like your task manager screen, it will show what processes are under each service, but unlike task manager, it shows the ram usage of each part so you can see what is eating your ram

Private bytes = actual ram usage
Working set = Ram + page file usage

This page shows what all the colours and headings mean, link at bottom of it shows how to use it to find problems. You can right click headers and run an av scan from within the program.
ty for the suggestion but it seems to be the same as task manager and I'm not seeing any change wen the performance moves from 7-15gb used. the explorer is only reporting 3.3gb used on Private bytes on host.
I am see the ssd C drive keeps randomly maxing out for around 1 minutes than drooping back down to 1-3% on the vm and host.
I can shut down all the process in vm and see its ram decrease but it will not move the host performance view.
 
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editor1

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P.S.
I am noticing the the Ethernet connection is lying on host and the vm. Its saying 7-10mbps and in fact my other net work monitoring app('s) saying 1.5mbps.
I Also keep getting long spikes at random. The spike persist of Ethernet, cpu, ssd(c) and gpu card at same time. The hdd spikes att 100%, cpu increases 10-15%, I did't get to log the Ethernet spike, and gpu increases 15-20%. Ill up date Ethernet spike wen I see it again.
 

gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
It might help to know what VM software are you using, as it could be a buggy version or a problem known to that specific software.

I'm using Oracle VirtualBox and don't see anything like that. A quick test reveals the following with a VM that has 4 GB allocated to it (on my 12 GB system):

Host Task Manager
Before loading VM3.9 GB used, 8.0 GB Available
After VM loaded8.0 GB used, 3.9 GB Available
After loading 6 tabs in FF in VM7.5 GB used, 4.4 GB free

Yes, the RAM usage actually went down while using Firefox in the VM. I don't know why, it's just what Task Manager showed me. I only had the VM open a few minutes.
 

editor1

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I have ben using free VMware workstation 15 player for a couple years.
I'll test out multiple VM's in a moment.
Now the ram is greatly reduced so thats good news but the network traffic is insanely incorrect. EDIT: nvm. The ram was accurate yesterday but it's back to being massively in-accurate again.

pics are screen prints of the same time stamp down to the minute.


The traffic is at zero with no activity. So its only greatly incorrect during downloads.
 
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gardenman

Admirable
Moderator
Go to the Process tab, right click on columns near the top and make sure the Network column is on. Sort the list by Network activity by clicking on that column's header. See what programs are using the internet. Win10 has alot of background programs that connect to Microsoft for updates, including Windows Update and Store App updates and then there's "Telemetry" and more.

You might also want to read what Colif posted here:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/unreasonably-high-ram-usage-with-next-to-nothing-running.3580257/#post-21615714
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
Colif reads what he said... oh, turn fast startup off to clear ram on startup?

Windows only clears its compressed memory cache on a restart or if the PC needs the ram that the information is currently compressed into. There are probably programs that will clear it but as I said in that thread, they are counter productive to how windows 10 uses ram.

Apart from using lots of ram, are there any negative effects? As there shouldn't be, you still have free ram. If you opened something that needed more space than you currently have free, win 10 would move the compressed data onto the page file.

It leaves any program/data you used since startup in ram in case you open that program again as its far faster to open a program from ram than it is from most storage now (Optane need not apply since it is as fast as ram, since it is ram... its complicated)
 

editor1

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Go to the Process tab, right click on columns near the top and make sure the Network column is on. Sort the list by Network activity by clicking on that column's header. See what programs are using the internet. Win10 has alot of background programs that connect to Microsoft for updates, including Windows Update and Store App updates and then there's "Telemetry" and more.

You might also want to read what Colif posted here:
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/unreasonably-high-ram-usage-with-next-to-nothing-running.3580257/#post-21615714
So my host says "vmware NAT service" using the network and vm is saying "openVPN Daemon" using the network. thay both commonly say 14-22mbps 24/7. I'm using PIA on vm.
Colif reads what he said... oh, turn fast startup off to clear ram on startup?

Windows only clears its compressed memory cache on a restart or if the PC needs the ram that the information is currently compressed into. There are probably programs that will clear it but as I said in that thread, they are counter productive to how windows 10 uses ram.

Apart from using lots of ram, are there any negative effects? As there shouldn't be, you still have free ram. If you opened something that needed more space than you currently have free, win 10 would move the compressed data onto the page file.

It leaves any program/data you used since startup in ram in case you open that program again as its far faster to open a program from ram than it is from most storage now (Optane need not apply since it is as fast as ram, since it is ram... its complicated)
Ok.. sounds fairly complicated but it does seam sound to me. Wen my ram is stated ate 14gb+ used I can launch lots of stuff(8gb on vm's and than 3 instances of a mmorpg. Not move much of the reading of task managers performance view . But every thaing are super slow. As you stated it would be.

I don't have any problem's with memory after robot's. So I dowt I have fast startup

The main thaing that caut my eye is that the taskmanager is saying 14-18mb down per a sec and my networks is saying 4mbps. Its the small toolbar's in my picture.

I have lots of oddity's happening on host and vm's. The error's on vm(vpn/tor) mostly seem to be grafix. It recent crashed and made its wallpaper solid black. It is not activated so wallpaper should not change. Mouse hover over the transparent auto pop ups(help/hints) on browser(chrome) and a on taskbar(PIA) ar grafix gliche'd. All my vms(win10 32/64) seem to have a odd also. Randomly after 30-90 sec after boot up Avast network/wifi scan says new device connected to network. like 2 out of 3vm's have this during boot up. The avast network/wifi scans are very inconsistent as for seeing my devices.

An as the host go's thers to many randome's. Clipboard related. Mouse drag for highlighting and courser location is glitch'y. I have only ben testing games with indipendant chat servers(games will function but several different text associate'd servers randomly go down or temp ban's due to hakers trying to hijack chat's). All this has ben happening to me as of December. I did get 2 different results due to vm or gaming acct.

But all that crap is a hole diferant day.

This doesn't seem to be a rare problem with VMWare.

Ever heard of REFS? It's a file system like NTFS.
https://communities.vmware.com/thread/600785

Vmware Workstation uses all my RAM
https://superuser.com/questions/1098680/vmware-workstation-uses-all-my-ram
Sounds interesting. Ill have to look in to REFS.

ironic if vmware had a memory leak.

Maybe it just doesn't release the memory like it should.
I have to do a ccleaner on host every time I mod(delete) vm's hd to free up space correctly on all my windows vm's.
 
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Colif

Win 10 Master
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Try turning fast startup off and see if we are right - https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html - if you have ssd or faster, you don't need that on. If it is a memory leak in the VM software drivers, it should release all the ram on startup with that off. Ram usage will grow until next restart.

Its funny, I normally only suggest to turn that off if boot times are affected by old drivers, not for a memory leak.
 

editor1

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Try turning fast startup off and see if we are right - https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/4189-turn-off-fast-startup-windows-10-a.html - if you have ssd or faster, you don't need that on. If it is a memory leak in the VM software drivers, it should release all the ram on startup with that off. Ram usage will grow until next restart.

Its funny, I normally only suggest to turn that off if boot times are affected by old drivers, not for a memory leak.
I disabled it on host. Vm dos't have the fast startup option. network data is continuing to display 5 time more than what is really moving. I'll have to wait a few hr's to see if memory goes to 14gb used.
I keep getting random spikes on c drive(ssd) and pc stops responding during the spike. Mouse can move around and media player continues to play but I can't do any interactivity with desktop or windows.
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
it makes sense you only need to turn it off on host, as that is where the program that has the memory problem is running.

Where is page file located? If C that could be windows writing info to drive as it had it cached in ram up until that point and the VM suddenly wanted more ram.

There is a program called Poolmon you can use, it might isolate this down to a particular driver. It might help to know its name. I haven't ever used it so I can't explain to you how to use it. I have watched videos on it but I didn't get very far.
 

editor1

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it makes sense you only need to turn it off on host, as that is where the program that has the memory problem is running.

Where is page file located? If C that could be windows writing info to drive as it had it cached in ram up until that point and the VM suddenly wanted more ram.

There is a program called Poolmon you can use, it might isolate this down to a particular driver. It might help to know its name. I haven't ever used it so I can't explain to you how to use it. I have watched videos on it but I didn't get very far.
Paging file is on my c drive(ssd). Should I try upgrading to a m.2 or maybe putting paging on a different drive other than os is on ? I cant real'y afford Intel Optane.
My vm's disc usage is hitting 90 avarage. And host is 30-70%. It drops down to 1% after clicking/activatin vm's window.


Odd thing is wen setting up vm's it ask for memory thrush hold. And after a short period of time(15min-1.3 hr's) my memory goes up to 14gb out of 16gb host. An task manager's and all other managers will not report the memory use other than the performance view. I'll try "Poolmon ". Any idea why only vm running torrent client in example.. torrent client is saying 2.5mb down, "networx" 4.8mb down and task manager performance view say 17mb down(local area)/22mb down(ethernet0) . The host "networx" is say the same mb down as the vm's torrent client is displaying. But not the same as the vm's networx.
 
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Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
I don't run VM's, its why Gardenman answered as I know he does.

I don't know if asking on a forum like this might find an answer for you - https://communities.vmware.com/welcome since it seems it is the program causing issue. It is possible we are wrong here.

more ram is a better answer than to move page file, but fixing the problem is a better answer again. More ram just means it won't use page file so fast but its a bandaid.
 

editor1

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I don't run VM's, its why Gardenman answered as I know he does.

I don't know if asking on a forum like this might find an answer for you - https://communities.vmware.com/welcome since it seems it is the program causing issue. It is possible we are wrong here.

more ram is a better answer than to move page file, but fixing the problem is a better answer again. More ram just means it won't use page file so fast but its a bandaid.
Tru.. I did think about that for the vm associated stuff. But I know this community and I don't know them.
I'm thinking it is my VPN(PIA) rung bad inside vm. But it dos't explain why a few weeks ago my gpu would spike with the c drive and cpu. I'm going to try some other vpn's.

I plan on building a server but for now I just need to get the torrenting up and running.
 

editor1

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I see if more mods know about VM software, its likely some do...
AHHH the screen shots are evidence of ransomware. Miscalculated network traffic, os drive spikes, cpu spikes and gpu spikes at same time are evidence. Thay tried to/did hijack task manager to prevent manual detection..
Thay also mouse haked me for wen I activated desktop with it thay would stop encryption mod. VM's ar inactive until you click on there window.

PS: the problem I'm having is my back up boot iso might have malisha on it. My lap top fried the other day. I did see that a non windows pc can download the ios from Microsoft. Seeing my network traffic is haked I don't think its safe to boot a Linux to download a new windows ios. Any suggestions on how to reinstall windows ?
 
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editor1

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I guess hacking is another reason for misreported figures.

You don't know anyone who can make you an iso? As that would be how I go forwards, some you can trust.
No.. I live in a regal area.
I'm thinking ill have to temporarily buy a brand new laptop and make the iso from a public location like Starbucks :( Any idea on what I should install be for making iso at Starbucks ? security, vpn and so on ?
 

Colif

Win 10 Master
Moderator
No.. I live in a regal area.
I'm thinking ill have to temporarily buy a brand new laptop and make the iso from a public location like Starbucks :( Any idea on what I should install be for making iso at Starbucks ? security, vpn and so on ?
There must be a way you can get an ISO made another way apart from buying a new laptop to make it... no friends? no family members who can mail you tthe usb?
 

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