Tech: More MM electrical woe

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Well, worked overnight. As I posted earlier, everything seemed fine
for 6 or 7 games. During the heat of the 7th, the flippers started to
pulse, would not hold unless both were pressed at the same time. This
morning, same result, but also, if both are pressed at the same time,
the ball is launched!!!

Sounds like a crossed or shorted wire somewhere, but I don't know where
to start. Is the ball launch on the same circuit as the flippers?

Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[martin]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Check that the optos are clean. Also, the software has an option to
launch the ball off of the right flipper button.

Then go into the test menu and run the switch matrix test.

 

[martin]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

On the ground cover, definitely not.

next step is to get into the diagnostics and the switch test mode. When
you get to the grid, most of the boxes should be empty. Start testing
switches, look for the right name to come up.

Flippers and the ball launch button are obvious choices to try. It does
sound like a short, the matrix will help narrow it down.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Martin, Thanks, I checked the flipper optos and they look clean. I
also checked the software the the "flipper plunger" was set to no.

I am at a loss, however, tell me if this may make a difference. The
braided ground which goes from the cabinet to the head had a plastic
cover on it. I did not replace this since it was really moldy and did
not see a good reason that it was in plastic. Do you think this may be
causing the electrical problems I am seeing?

Thanks, Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think that it is going to be traced to your original problem with the
fuse holders.
Try replacing the fuse holders with new ones.

Lee





math08 wrote:
> I think this may be heat related. As I posted earlier, the problem
> started when I was deep into a long game and all of the specials were
> going, ie, trolls up, lights and the flippers died. I though I fixed it
> by reseating the fuses but in the middle of a game, the flippers started
> to stutter. At this point, the ball launch started when I pushed the
> right flipper button.
>
> My kids though the game was working, tried it and left it on for a
> couple of hours. When I noticed that, the flippers were totally not
> working again, although the switch test sees the switches and says they
> are working.
>
> I retraced all of the wires and do not see any breaks, problems etc.
>
> Any other thoughts?
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Are the other solenoids working? The coin door high power switch could
be flakey. I would run a volt meter to the solenoid power and play
until the failure and check your before and after readings. Did you
replace the fuse or just reseat it? They can break on the ends and you
will never see it. Don

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Hey, could be the opto boards, but your stating that it started to act
up when the trolls were up and other stuff going on made me think the
flippers weren't getting enough voltage.
However re-reading your problem of the ball launch firing with the
flipper button makes sense that there is possibly something else going
on.
I'm definately not an expert, just trying to give a fresh perspective.

Lee

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Mike,
Was this game wet at some point in time?
A little background info helps sometime.

Lee

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think this may be heat related. As I posted earlier, the problem
started when I was deep into a long game and all of the specials were
going, ie, trolls up, lights and the flippers died. I though I fixed it
by reseating the fuses but in the middle of a game, the flippers started
to stutter. At this point, the ball launch started when I pushed the
right flipper button.

My kids though the game was working, tried it and left it on for a
couple of hours. When I noticed that, the flippers were totally not
working again, although the switch test sees the switches and says they
are working.

I retraced all of the wires and do not see any breaks, problems etc.

Any other thoughts?

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

klevens, thanks, I will try that this weekend when I get some time. I
got an email with the suggestion that it could be the opto boards for
the flippers. It suggested taking the optoboards out, soak and clean
them throughly and reset. He said that when he had the optos get out of
alignment or dirty, he got really funny things happen which seemed
unrelated to the flippers. Since I moved everything over from the old
cabinet and everything was fine until that time, he thinks that dirt,
dust etc may have lodged in the opto.

What do you think?

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Don, The coin door switches seem to work. When I hold them in during
the various diagnostics, they are OK, but I will try your suggestion.
Lee, thats what is driving me crazy. I reseat the fuses after testing
them on my meter and the problem seemed to go away for a game or two.
If it was something like the coin door switch or optos, I would have
though this would not do anything.

I have all new fuses and will try them.

As to the voltage, your right, the voltage to the flippers seems to
drop, however, when I try the other soloniods, they all seem fine.

I will say, however, when I am in the diagnostics and get to the "hold"
test of the soloniods, nothing seems to happen. This is for the
flippers, trolls, castle gate, etc. Maybe something going on in the
high energy circuit which may point to the coin door switch now that I
think of it.

Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

New fuses isn't going to help here. You may have a heat problem, that is
going to be a board problem. Since you fiddled with the fuses and it worked
for a bit, start there. Reflow the solder on the fuse holders, and go over
that board for poor solder joints. LTG

"math08" <mathisen08@msn.com> wrote in message
news:Scb_e.4$A57.2451@news.uswest.net...
> Don, The coin door switches seem to work. When I hold them in during
> the various diagnostics, they are OK, but I will try your suggestion.
> Lee, thats what is driving me crazy. I reseat the fuses after testing
> them on my meter and the problem seemed to go away for a game or two.
> If it was something like the coin door switch or optos, I would have
> though this would not do anything.
>
> I have all new fuses and will try them.
>
> As to the voltage, your right, the voltage to the flippers seems to
> drop, however, when I try the other soloniods, they all seem fine.
>
> I will say, however, when I am in the diagnostics and get to the "hold"
> test of the soloniods, nothing seems to happen. This is for the
> flippers, trolls, castle gate, etc. Maybe something going on in the
> high energy circuit which may point to the coin door switch now that I
> think of it.
>
> Mike
>
> --
> Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
> http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Lee

This game was in a damp operators storage room for years. When I
purchased it the distributor had his tech fully shop the game (I spoke
to the tech. He spent 40 hours taking almost everything off and
cleaning the accumulated dirt etc.) When I got the game home,
everything was working great. I went under the cabinet to get
something, looked up and saw black mold covering the underside. I
reached an agreement with the distributor who refunded some of the
purchase price, and bought a BTC cabinet. I agonized whether to return
the game for a refund, which the distributor was willing to do, but
based on the mechanical and playfield condition, and getting the advice
from various members of this board, decided to keep the game and go with
the cabinet swap.

Prior to the swap, I probably had 100 + games played without a
suggestion of a problem. Mechanically the game played flawlessly. I
moved everything over to the new cabinet and head, cleaning while I
went. Got everything in, fired it up and had a small problem. First,
the lower playfield did not light. I traced down the wires, and found
that one of the wires to the connector on the Driver Board was loose in
the connection. I reseated the wire and it was fine. Second, the fuse
for the lower flashers went bad, I replaced, and again, everything was
fine.

At that point, I played the 7-8 games with no problem, and as I related
above, the flipper problem started then.

Hope this helps.

Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[MikeO]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Sounds like you may have a bad solder joint on the daisy chain power
wiring that services those items. It would make sense with the stutter
type symptoms you mentioned.

Follow the wires from the flippers in both directions. To be totally
sure, review the manual to identify which is the power wiring. The
ground wiring goes back directly to the power driver board on this
game. The power wiring will daisy chain from one device to the next as
they are always hot. The transistors on the power driver board close
the circuit and ground it to fire it.

Turn the game on and start a game. Lift the playfield up and hold a
flipper button down and start wiggling wires and see if you can get the
flippers to work. I had a customer's EM pinball that would play some
times and not others without any indication of where the problem was. I
checked and checked and checked until I was blue in the face. I
finally found the problem when the game was on and I started wiggling
wires around. One wire on the transformer had a cold solder joint.

Caution, be careful not to short something else out while you are
poking around under there.

Good Luck.

Mike O.

 

[MikeO]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

It still sounds like a loose wire somewhere. Or could be a cold solder
joint or a broken trace as well. It appears as though vibration or
heat are surfacing the problem. I'd start a game and poke around with
the under playfield wiring while holding a flipper. Same for the
backbox wiring.

Again, be careful not to short anything while doing this.


Mike O.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Newest update, I have been out of time since the last post, turned on
the game, no fippers at all. On the diagnostics, no flipper power, no
troll power. Are these two related?

All of the other solonoids fire when tested.

Thanks, Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

Lee, I went over an earlier post where you suggested the flipper/troll
board. Based on both not working, I went back in, reseated the ribbon
cable as well as the troll connectors, and I now have power to
everything.

Thanks to you all for the help. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope
everything is good from here.

Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

MikeO

Just got worse. I was playing, and everything went off. Total blackout
except for the coin box lights.

The LED's on the CPU/Flipper board are not right. I don't have the full
manual for this game, but looking at my AFM manual, LED 201 and 202 are
on at start (which they are), and they 201 is off and 203 is blinking
(that is how it was). Now 201 is staying on and 203 does not blink.

I don't know what this means, or what to do to fix it.

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.pinball (More info?)

I think I found it, maybe. When I slightly push on (flex) the right
side of the flipper board, the whole game goes off. When I then pull on
the board, the game went back on and the flippers are working. This is
right where the ribbon connector attaches to the side of the board. As
you said, through vibration or heat, there must be a cold solder joint
which is not quite firm where that ribbon connector is.

Thanks for the advice. I will post when I get a chance to pull the
board and fix it.

Mike

--
Sent via Gamer Newsgroups
http://www.gamernewsgroups.com