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Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
99% of the time.

Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
back, very tedious? For both sides?

This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
up somewhat.

Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back, and
abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with this,
except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
interesting part when the winner is undecided.

Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's not
that common though.

Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
counting on that though.

So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
much struggle.

Your thoughts?

--
aaronl at consultant dot com
For every expert, there is an equal and
opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Margolis" <someone@somewhere.org> wrote in message
news:10f2nrnovtl1ad1@corp.supernews.com...

> Somebody has to lose.
>

That's exactly how I justify my continued attempts to play the game

~SOD~.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Aaron Lawrence enlightened us with:
> This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
> profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
> (assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
> not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
> shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
> up somewhat.

But why try and rebuild that power node, if you know your enemy is
going to shoot it again? This is a rather dumb strategy. Instead,
focus on getting the superweapons first, and then rebuild while you're
attacking your enemy with them. That is what teamplay is all about -
spread your actions so that you can get a hold on the situation.

> Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back,
> and abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree
> with this, except that this phase of the game is invariably much
> longer than the interesting part when the winner is undecided.

Then ask the admin of the server to reduce the timelimit to 10 minutes
instead.

Maybe a good idea for a mod: make the timelimit variable. As long as
the game is balanced, the limit is long, say 20 minutes. If the game
becomes rather unbalanced, it should reduce it to say 10 minutes.

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
<aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:

>Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
>planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
>to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
>mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
>99% of the time.
>
>Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
>back, very tedious? For both sides?

Generally don't see alot of this. If a team is knocking on the base
door within 2-5 minutes, they generally will be dancing on the
destroyed reactor core within another minute or two :)

I have seen it happen where the other side comes back, tho. Bad luck,
initial sloppy playing followed by a growing determination along with
overconfidence from the opposing team. By favorite game ever was
being pushed back to the base on ArticStronghold, holding for several
minutes, then slowly but constantly pushing back to the enemy base for
a late victory.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Aaron Lawrence <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1b5c0aed68da7138989cb1@news.xtra.co.nz:

> Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold,
> red planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is
> the fastest to build nodes and use superweapons.

Sometimes one side will build nodes sooner because it has players with
faster hard drives. But the other side might have the better players
and ultimately win.

-Tuber
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

> So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
> period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
> going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
> much struggle.

I don't mind losing as long as my team mates arn't idiots, if they're
running around with their thumbs up their butts then I usually just quit
because it's not fun, especially those who hop in the hellbender with no one
else and charge into battle and try to use it as a device to run over
people.... it just doesn't happen, you die. If teammates constantly ignore
nodes I usually quit, I've seen many times when my team mates walk right by
the blank node and don't even activate it.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
<aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:

>Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
>planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
>to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
>mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
>99% of the time.
>
>Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
>back, very tedious? For both sides?
>
>This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
>profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
>(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
>not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
>shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
>up somewhat.
>
>Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back, and
>abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with this,
>except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
>interesting part when the winner is undecided.
>
>Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
>for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's not
>that common though.
>
>Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
>counting on that though.
>
>So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
>period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
>going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
>much struggle.
>
>Your thoughts?

First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer. That's annoying
as hell. I could live with the other superweapons, but the 'deemer is
just too powerful and too easy to use. Hell, you can just waltz over
to a node and blow both it and yourself up... you don't even have to
have the skill to pilot it. At least with the Levi you have to use a
bit of skill or planning, and the Target Painter isn't quite as
devastating as the 'deemer so I don't mind it as much.

The other factor is the game timeout value. I have found a timeout of
between 15 and 20 minutes to be the most reasonable. If you want to
see something really stupid, visit one of the 'official' Atari ONS
servers. Some bonehead set the timeout value for 45 minutes. Because
of that, they're virtually deserted.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Szaki enlightened us with:
> It's difficult to see it ahead, teams can change during the game, players
> come and go, switch sides etc...

Yeah... that's why I prefer LAN parties over internet play.

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

That's why each node has an energy turret gun, to protect the node. I jump
in there many times and shoot down redeemers very easy, even regular
missiles that attacks me.
Also, I can prevent players to get the redeemer, when they try to fly there,
like in Torland. From the turret I can control the tower, where the redeemer
is located. I shoot down redeemers with other guns also, like the sniper or
machine gun. I point in front of it and let it fly into the center of the
cross hair than BANG. Easiest to shoot down when it flies toward me in an
angle.
So it's all strategy.
Too many players just run around, trying score, to kill other players or
have their little privet war, not playing as a team.
I've seen selfish player, just jump in the Manta and take off than others
just sit idle in the base or has to walk to the next node.
When the team builds nodes, I just jump on the Manta and wait for others to
jump on it than take off. I even carried 4 players at once on the Manta.

Panzer

"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
news:8sm2f05tqfj8g528e10hu2rsrt406vhsod@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
> <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:
>
> >Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
> >planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
> >to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
> >mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
> >99% of the time.
> >
> >Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
> >back, very tedious? For both sides?
> >
> >This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
> >profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
> >(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
> >not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
> >shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
> >up somewhat.
> >
> >Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back, and
> >abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with this,
> >except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
> >interesting part when the winner is undecided.
> >
> >Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
> >for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's not
> >that common though.
> >
> >Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
> >counting on that though.
> >
> >So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
> >period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
> >going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
> >much struggle.
> >
> >Your thoughts?
>
> First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
> That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
> rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
> act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer. That's annoying
> as hell. I could live with the other superweapons, but the 'deemer is
> just too powerful and too easy to use. Hell, you can just waltz over
> to a node and blow both it and yourself up... you don't even have to
> have the skill to pilot it. At least with the Levi you have to use a
> bit of skill or planning, and the Target Painter isn't quite as
> devastating as the 'deemer so I don't mind it as much.
>
> The other factor is the game timeout value. I have found a timeout of
> between 15 and 20 minutes to be the most reasonable. If you want to
> see something really stupid, visit one of the 'official' Atari ONS
> servers. Some bonehead set the timeout value for 45 minutes. Because
> of that, they're virtually deserted.
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:17:45 -0400, Folk <Folk@folk.com> wrote:


>First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
>That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
>rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
>act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer.

1) With a group of good players, odds are the more experienced are
picking up the superweapons before the n00bs realize they're there.

2) The inexperienced tend to fly the shot in remotely, making it
ridiculously easy to shoot down and block the shot. Experienced
players will either fly it in stealthily (hugging the ground from an
odd angle) or walk it to the node and reduce the flighttime to zero.
If someone takes out your node with a redeemer, they're doing a good
enuf job not to be called a pure n00b.

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Steven L Cox" <stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d55f01gira3mr4u3s1348p9or90ms8v1a@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:17:45 -0400, Folk <Folk@folk.com> wrote:
>
>
> If someone takes out your node with a redeemer, they're doing a good
> enuf job not to be called a pure n00b.
>



unless of course they're lucky ;op

--

Margolis
http://web.archive.org/web/20030215212142/http://www.agqx.org/faqs/AGQ2FAQ.htm
http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 04:12:14 GMT, "Szaki" <szaki10@comcast.net> wrote:

I would agree with you, but it is equally frustrating to get beside
players and wait for them to jump on only to have them run away
blindly searaching for another vehicle. Then when you say "screw it"
and take off towards a node you're already a node behind. I even have
voice enabled and will say "anyone want a ride on the manta" and still
have idiots not jump on. I try to get to node 1 as fast as possible
in a manta, start it, and let the trailing scorpion finish it as I
head to node 2. That way, node 1 is up in less than a minute and the
walkers can teleport to node 1 and get a ride. I communicate this via
voice. If they can't catch on, they deserve to walk.

Another pet peeve is early in the game, people in fast moving vehicles
(raptor or manta) finishing the node to 100% completion. If you build
it to a certain percentage (depends on the size of the map) it will
build itself by the time you reach the next node and you've made up
valuable seconds. I abide by this strategy depending on the vehicle I
get. If I get a scorpion, I tell the Mantas to start the node and
leave. I promise to have it finished by the time they get to node 2.
This is especially valuable in Severance where control of the Levi is
key.

>That's why each node has an energy turret gun, to protect the node. I jump
>in there many times and shoot down redeemers very easy, even regular
>missiles that attacks me.
>Also, I can prevent players to get the redeemer, when they try to fly there,
>like in Torland. From the turret I can control the tower, where the redeemer
>is located. I shoot down redeemers with other guns also, like the sniper or
>machine gun. I point in front of it and let it fly into the center of the
>cross hair than BANG. Easiest to shoot down when it flies toward me in an
>angle.
>So it's all strategy.
>Too many players just run around, trying score, to kill other players or
>have their little privet war, not playing as a team.
>I've seen selfish player, just jump in the Manta and take off than others
>just sit idle in the base or has to walk to the next node.
>When the team builds nodes, I just jump on the Manta and wait for others to
>jump on it than take off. I even carried 4 players at once on the Manta.
>
>Panzer
>
>"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
>news:8sm2f05tqfj8g528e10hu2rsrt406vhsod@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
>> <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
>> >planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
>> >to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
>> >mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
>> >99% of the time.
>> >
>> >Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
>> >back, very tedious? For both sides?
>> >
>> >This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
>> >profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
>> >(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
>> >not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
>> >shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
>> >up somewhat.
>> >
>> >Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back, and
>> >abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with this,
>> >except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
>> >interesting part when the winner is undecided.
>> >
>> >Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
>> >for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's not
>> >that common though.
>> >
>> >Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
>> >counting on that though.
>> >
>> >So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
>> >period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
>> >going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
>> >much struggle.
>> >
>> >Your thoughts?
>>
>> First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
>> That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
>> rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
>> act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer. That's annoying
>> as hell. I could live with the other superweapons, but the 'deemer is
>> just too powerful and too easy to use. Hell, you can just waltz over
>> to a node and blow both it and yourself up... you don't even have to
>> have the skill to pilot it. At least with the Levi you have to use a
>> bit of skill or planning, and the Target Painter isn't quite as
>> devastating as the 'deemer so I don't mind it as much.
>>
>> The other factor is the game timeout value. I have found a timeout of
>> between 15 and 20 minutes to be the most reasonable. If you want to
>> see something really stupid, visit one of the 'official' Atari ONS
>> servers. Some bonehead set the timeout value for 45 minutes. Because
>> of that, they're virtually deserted.
>>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:24:19 GMT, Christoofar <nospam@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I even have
>voice enabled and will say "anyone want a ride on the manta" and still
>have idiots not jump on.

While its easy for you to assume you're a good player, its not so easy
for others to do so :) There have been several times I've hopped on a
manta ride only to have the driver meander about aimlessly. Those
"idiots" just might be thinking "there is a hot point of contention
that I know about and this guy might not, I'm better off hopping in a
scorpion and getting there slower than wasting time flying in the
wrong direction".

-s-
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 04:12:14 GMT, "Szaki" <szaki10@comcast.net> wrote:

>That's why each node has an energy turret gun, to protect the node. I jump
>in there many times and shoot down redeemers very easy, even regular
>missiles that attacks me.

Read my post. An opposing player can walk up to a node, or ride up to
a node in any vehicle, pull out a redeemer and blow up the node. How
are you going to stop that.?

>Also, I can prevent players to get the redeemer, when they try to fly there,
>like in Torland. From the turret I can control the tower, where the redeemer
>is located.

That strategy *only* works on Torlan. Other maps have the Redeemer in
spots that you can't cover unless you decide to simply camp that spot.

> I shoot down redeemers with other guns also, like the sniper or
>machine gun. I point in front of it and let it fly into the center of the
>cross hair than BANG. Easiest to shoot down when it flies toward me in an
>angle.

How easy is it to shoot down when someone pulls it out and detonates
it? In that case, it flies maybe two feet. Try to shoot that.

>So it's all strategy.

Or not...


>"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
>news:8sm2f05tqfj8g528e10hu2rsrt406vhsod@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
>> <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
>> >planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
>> >to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
>> >mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
>> >99% of the time.
>> >
>> >Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
>> >back, very tedious? For both sides?
>> >
>> >This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
>> >profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
>> >(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can you
>> >not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
>> >shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
>> >up somewhat.
>> >
>> >Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back, and
>> >abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with this,
>> >except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
>> >interesting part when the winner is undecided.
>> >
>> >Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
>> >for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's not
>> >that common though.
>> >
>> >Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
>> >counting on that though.
>> >
>> >So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
>> >period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
>> >going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
>> >much struggle.
>> >
>> >Your thoughts?
>>
>> First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
>> That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
>> rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
>> act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer. That's annoying
>> as hell. I could live with the other superweapons, but the 'deemer is
>> just too powerful and too easy to use. Hell, you can just waltz over
>> to a node and blow both it and yourself up... you don't even have to
>> have the skill to pilot it. At least with the Levi you have to use a
>> bit of skill or planning, and the Target Painter isn't quite as
>> devastating as the 'deemer so I don't mind it as much.
>>
>> The other factor is the game timeout value. I have found a timeout of
>> between 15 and 20 minutes to be the most reasonable. If you want to
>> see something really stupid, visit one of the 'official' Atari ONS
>> servers. Some bonehead set the timeout value for 45 minutes. Because
>> of that, they're virtually deserted.
>>
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:50:49 -0400, Steven L Cox
<stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:17:45 -0400, Folk <Folk@folk.com> wrote:
>
>
>>First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
>>That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
>>rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
>>act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer.
>
>1) With a group of good players, odds are the more experienced are
>picking up the superweapons before the n00bs realize they're there.
>
>2) The inexperienced tend to fly the shot in remotely, making it
>ridiculously easy to shoot down and block the shot. Experienced
>players will either fly it in stealthily (hugging the ground from an
>odd angle) or walk it to the node and reduce the flighttime to zero.
>If someone takes out your node with a redeemer, they're doing a good
>enuf job not to be called a pure n00b.
>
>-s-

OK, replace the phrase "n00b" in my post with "highly skilled player".
The net effect is exactly the same.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:58:32 -0400, Steven L Cox
<stevencox56@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:24:19 GMT, Christoofar <nospam@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I even have
>>voice enabled and will say "anyone want a ride on the manta" and still
>>have idiots not jump on.
>
>While its easy for you to assume you're a good player, its not so easy
>for others to do so :) There have been several times I've hopped on a
>manta ride only to have the driver meander about aimlessly. Those
>"idiots" just might be thinking "there is a hot point of contention
>that I know about and this guy might not, I'm better off hopping in a
>scorpion and getting there slower than wasting time flying in the
>wrong direction".
>
>-s-

Good point. I have fallen victim to the same "rides to nowhere".
Same goes for the Bender. A largely misunderstood vehicle. I think
when piloted skillfully, a single person can use the Bender
effectively. Most people use it as a mode of transportation (as a
driver or rider), and don't use it to capacity. If I have a rider in
the bender, nothing is worse than getting into a fight and thinking
you have someone gunning, only to realize they hopped out at the last
Scorpion. If I get in a vehicle I ride it until it dies (barring
extreme circumstances...like swapping a manta for the leviathon). If
I get out of a Bender while riding, I let the driver know via voice.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Christoofar enlightened us with:
> I would agree with you, but it is equally frustrating to get beside
> players and wait for them to jump on only to have them run away
> blindly searaching for another vehicle.

That's true, but remember it isn't easy to get onto a manta and stay
there. You must know that you have to duck in order not to fall off
easily. I don't think many players know this. Besides, would you jump
onto a huge rotating fan in real life?

> I try to get to node 1 as fast as possible in a manta, start it, and
> let the trailing scorpion finish it as I head to node 2.

Smart move, I do the same.

> Another pet peeve is early in the game, people in fast moving vehicles
> (raptor or manta) finishing the node to 100% completion. If you build
> it to a certain percentage (depends on the size of the map) it will
> build itself by the time you reach the next node and you've made up
> valuable seconds.

Yep. This is especially important when doing 1-on-1 onslaught.

MeltDown

PS: Why did you quote about three entire posts?
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
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Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Christoofar enlightened us with:
> If I get in a vehicle I ride it until it dies (barring extreme
> circumstances...like swapping a manta for the leviathon).

Yep, so do I. There is no use in handing the opposing team an extra
vehicle. I once played with some noobs in my team that got out of
their vehicle when it was about to be destroyed. I had to get to all
the wrecks and collect them, because our enemy was smart enough not to
blow them up.

MeltDown
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Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

MeltDown wrote:

> I once played with some noobs in my team that got out of
> their vehicle when it was about to be destroyed. I had to get to all
> the wrecks and collect them, because our enemy was smart enough not to
> blow them up.

Yeh! Something that also bugs me... when I'm in need of transport, and I
come across an abandoned enemy vehicle, I often find one of my team
blasting away at it.
Just last night I was running towards an empty enemy Manta, when a
fellow team-member starts knocking it further and further away with the
turret gun. Grr!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
news:6fd5f0tm976k7ml9jienjgruh5ek9brbub@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 04:12:14 GMT, "Szaki" <szaki10@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >That's why each node has an energy turret gun, to protect the node. I
jump
> >in there many times and shoot down redeemers very easy, even regular
> >missiles that attacks me.
>
> Read my post. An opposing player can walk up to a node, or ride up to
> a node in any vehicle, pull out a redeemer and blow up the node. How
> are you going to stop that.?
***********************************************************************
In that case you can't, unless I can shoot down his vehicle or kill the
player befor he can pull the Redemer.
Happend before.
It's all ways risky carrying the redemer, becuse of being killed, so all
effort to obtain the redemer is lost.
********************************************************************

>
> >Also, I can prevent players to get the redeemer, when they try to fly
there,
> >like in Torland. From the turret I can control the tower, where the
redeemer
> >is located.
>
> That strategy *only* works on Torlan. Other maps have the Redeemer in
> spots that you can't cover unless you decide to simply camp that spot.
>
> > I shoot down redeemers with other guns also, like the sniper or
> >machine gun. I point in front of it and let it fly into the center of the
> >cross hair than BANG. Easiest to shoot down when it flies toward me in an
> >angle.
>
> How easy is it to shoot down when someone pulls it out and detonates
> it? In that case, it flies maybe two feet. Try to shoot that.
************
It don't happen that offten! Most people try to shoot the Redemer from a
distance, some wobles it or jerks it while flying, so it don't get shoot
down. Some times it works.
*********
>
> >So it's all strategy.
>
> Or not...
********
Wrong!
************>
>
> >"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
> >news:8sm2f05tqfj8g528e10hu2rsrt406vhsod@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 02:42:27 +1200, Aaron Lawrence
> >> <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
> >> >planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the
fastest
> >> >to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes
of
> >> >mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
> >> >99% of the time.
> >> >
> >> >Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
> >> >back, very tedious? For both sides?
> >> >
> >> >This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
> >> >profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win
> >> >(assuming the winner knows how to use the weapons). So not only can
you
> >> >not win, its likely that your first node will be destroyed in a single
> >> >shot, over and over. At least the superweapons do tend to speed things
> >> >up somewhat.
> >> >
> >> >Many people insist that you should try and try and try to come back,
and
> >> >abuse those who leave once the winner is clear. I would agree with
this,
> >> >except that this phase of the game is invariably much longer than the
> >> >interesting part when the winner is undecided.
> >> >
> >> >Sometimes you get a game that is well balanced and goes back and forth
> >> >for a while before one side gets the upper hand. Those are fun. It's
not
> >> >that common though.
> >> >
> >> >Of course, sometimes other players join and turn the tide. No point
> >> >counting on that though.
> >> >
> >> >So in my opinion, it's perfectly reasonable to leave after a short
> >> >period of attempting to come back, if it's pretty clear you're never
> >> >going to win. Or if not leave then let the other team win, without too
> >> >much struggle.
> >> >
> >> >Your thoughts?
> >>
> >> First off, I think ONS would be more enjoyable without the Redeemer.
> >> That scenario you mention where you struggle for several minutes to
> >> rebuild your first node only to have it disappear in a second by the
> >> act of a (possibly) unskilled n00b with the 'deemer. That's annoying
> >> as hell. I could live with the other superweapons, but the 'deemer is
> >> just too powerful and too easy to use. Hell, you can just waltz over
> >> to a node and blow both it and yourself up... you don't even have to
> >> have the skill to pilot it. At least with the Levi you have to use a
> >> bit of skill or planning, and the Target Painter isn't quite as
> >> devastating as the 'deemer so I don't mind it as much.
> >>
> >> The other factor is the game timeout value. I have found a timeout of
> >> between 15 and 20 minutes to be the most reasonable. If you want to
> >> see something really stupid, visit one of the 'official' Atari ONS
> >> servers. Some bonehead set the timeout value for 45 minutes. Because
> >> of that, they're virtually deserted.
> >>
> >
>
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Steve enlightened us with:
> Yeh! Something that also bugs me... when I'm in need of transport,
> and I come across an abandoned enemy vehicle, I often find one of my
> team blasting away at it.

More people should read the Vehicle tutorial at UnrealTower... ;-)

MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Folk enlightened us with:
> Read my post. An opposing player can walk up to a node, or ride up to
> a node in any vehicle, pull out a redeemer and blow up the node. How
> are you going to stop that.?

Hmmm... lotsa spidermines :)


MeltDown
--
!For all your UT99/2k3/2k4 questions visit UnrealTower's FAQ section:
! http://www.unrealtower.org/faq
!Home of the FAQs for agut and agut2003.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Aaron Lawrence" <aaronlNOT@HEREconsultant.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b5c0aed68da7138989cb1@news.xtra.co.nz...
> Seems like many games (especially in maps like arctic stronghold, red
> planet, etc) are resolved in the first 2-5 minutes by who is the fastest
> to build nodes and use superweapons. Then follows another 20 minutes of
> mucking around as the loser attempts to come back, which doesn't work
> 99% of the time.
>
> Is it only me that finds the 20 minutes of hopeless attempts to come
> back, very tedious? For both sides?

No. I have a problem with that, too. It seems to me that comebacks are more
common in almost any other form of teamplay.

>
> This is even worse on maps like severance and crossfire where the
> profusion of superweapons guarantees that the loser cannot ever win

Of course I know exactly what you meant here, but you have to admit that is
kind of a funny choice of words... :)

[snip]

--
Cycho{HHR}
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Suddenly, MeltDown sprang forth and uttered these pithy words:
> But why try and rebuild that power node, if you know your enemy is
> going to shoot it again? This is a rather dumb strategy. Instead,
> focus on getting the superweapons first, and then rebuild while you're
> attacking your enemy with them. That is what teamplay is all about -
> spread your actions so that you can get a hold on the situation.

Yes, indeed, but it's not really practical when your enemy controls most
of the map and indeed, is spawning right next to numerous vehicles and
weapons, and passing superweapons just as a matter of course. And all
they need to do is find ONE deemer, whereas to prevent this you have to
get them all.

Of course, it is natural that the victor should control more weapons.
This should result in the game finishing quickly once the balance shifts
strongly one way. But somehow, it often doesn't. The defending team has
enough vehicles to keep the first node in contention indefinitely, but
not enough to go further.

> Then ask the admin of the server to reduce the timelimit to 10 minutes
> instead.

Sounds like a good idea.


--
aaronl at consultant dot com
For every expert, there is an equal and
opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
 
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