The Death of the Joystick

[polarity]

I've got the Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar, and it's so much better than anything else I've had in the past (I decided to pay up for a decent joystick, as £80 ones weren't much better than £30 ones).

I play BF2 with it, and the programming you can do on it means I can fly a plane, hop out and get in a chopper, flip a switch and the controls are changed to suit the different flying style (throttle reversed, new response curves on x/y axes). The thing is so smooth I can get the Cobra hovering, go get a cup of tea, and the thing'll be hovering right where I left it when I come back.

If the precision ever goes then I can replace the gimbals and pots with custom parts, including precision engineered gimbals with bearings, hall effect sensors to replace the pots, or just replace everything with force sensors, so the stick doesn't move at all, it just senses how hard you're pushing on the stick (http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/mods.php).

 

[Bobsama]

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Hard-Light Productions main site
FreeSpace Wiki
Hard-Light Forums

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It's a large download... but its worth it! I have everything. Freespace2 Online Installer

 

[Crashman]

Have you actually considered a joystick for racing games? Setting up a steering wheel is such a PITA, besides storing it, that a Joystick is the simple answer.

 

[Atolsammeek]

Oh all the descent games. On the second descent game I was useing 2 joysticks at once. Two Force feedback at once. But that game had tons of controls. I was crazy on the game. One joystick was set for slides up down left right. The other joystick acted as a normal flight stick. One fire button would be missles and the other would be guns. Weapons controls where set on both joysticks and views.

I wish they make a Descent 4.

 

[jeffareid]

I like the CH joysticks for 2 main reasons. The centering force is very light making small off center adjustements easier, and reducing fatigue. The CH Control Manage also helps out a lot, since it can map buttons into keystrokes or mouse actions.

I use twin joysticks for racing games. Left stick is used as a throttle / brake stick, while the right stick is used for steering. For flight simulations, I use a radio control style setup, right stick same as a plane, forward/back is pitch control, left/right is roll control. Left stick forward/back is throttle/airbrake (glider) control, left/right is rudder control. This is the same setup used for USA radio control transmitters.

As someone mentioned, I have a logitech momo racing wheel and pedals, but it's a pain to hook up. I just have the joysticks on a clipboard which I slip into a partially opened center drawer on my desk, here's a picture:

 

[eiskrystal]

I'm surprised there has been no real mention of joysticks for fighting games. If there is one type of game i demand an arcade stick, it's on the old-style sideways beatem-ups. Not so popular now though 🙁

 

[isftish]

i have a MS Sidewinder Pro 3d on my desk. it's sorta collecting dust for a while now, because i work long hours, and i can't dedicate the sort of time to play flight sims.

if anyone remembers this schtick...it's old...probably like 10years old. it's the only microsoft thing I'm impressed with, it's the first optical stick, and except of a bit of lash when centering, it still works great. sprint tension from center is not light enough, i end up sweating a lot keeping the bead on the enemy..

i used it to play stuff like B17 flying fortress, BF1942, Jane's flight sims, x-wing series, racing games like microprose GP, colin mcrae series, TOCA....

i swear by it forever, and when it finally goes...it's going back into it's box and on my top shelf as recognition of it's legacy.

LONG LIVE THE JOYSTICK!!!! NEVER LET IT DIE!!!

 

[isftish]

dude i like that hi-fi sitting under your hp printer

that's sooooo retro

 

[joedorson]

It is a real shame that the direction of game development seems to be much more making games simpler to run across multiple platforms these days, my favorite genre of PC games has always been the space sim from the days of elite, through the wing commander/privateer series to the only real contender for a while the X series.

I do not think that it helps any that with Vista MS decided to remove the MIDI/Gameport support from the OS (took me ages to remember where my USB-Gameport adaptor for my sidewinder was) but I think that like a lot of changes to the was that DirectX works in Vista this is because they want dual Vista/Xbox development to be as simple as possible.

On the positive side there are a lot of people out there who love the old games and are doing remakes etc. for example there are 2 good privateer remakes - Gemini Gold and Remake and a few indie developers working on the genre - but it does look like the future could lie with them rather than the big boys of the game development world 🙁

Joe

 

[tmeacham]

Haha, 2 joysticks. You guys are the best. I have to try that now.

 

[Krenn]

I still have a MS Force Feedback 1 sitting around - but no game port anymore, so it's a bit useless. But it was one of the best joysticks I've ever used - and built well enough that I'm sure it still works perfectly. Something tells me there's no drivers for Vista, though, so it's just taking up space now.

As for space simulation games - how about the X1 - X2 - X3 series that came out recently? I have X3, but haven't played it yet because my video card died after less than a week. And Dark Star One. Maybe the problem is US game companies don't make space fighter games...

 

[dobby]

i always loved sidewinder

 

[bourgeoisdude]

I used gamepad's on the PC for oldschool stuff, like the DOS games of the 90's, but more recently for the 8 and 16-bit console emulaters and stuff. I have two Gravis Gamepad Pros, one usb and one game port version. Sadley, Vista completely removes any and all support for the game port joysticks, and the down arrow on the usb version broke, so Vista is killing the older gamepads entirely. Yeah, used a Saitek gamepad with a layout similar to the original xbox control pad and use it exclusively for playing halo, but honestly the calibration just never gets quite "accurate" enough for me.

Why? Why is there no demand for PC gamepads? I'd buy a gamepad pro usb the next chance I get, except they're disappearing too quickley. Besides Saitek, are there ANY manufacturers still making gamepads or joysticks for the PC? How am I going to play Super Street
Fighter 2 again, with a !@#$in keyboard?!? Try doing Ryu's uppercut using the arrow keys if you think it isn't a problem!

*sigh* If anyone here knows of any Super-Nintendo-like controllers that use USB and work for the PC, please let me know. I would be eternally grateful :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[jhansonxi]

The Gravis Analog Pro was the only real joystick. Made it through all six episodes of Castle Wolfenstein 3D with one. Here's one on eBay.

 

[bourgeoisdude]

I'm surprised there has been no real mention of joysticks for fighting games. If there is one type of game i demand an arcade stick, it's on the old-style sideways beatem-ups. Not so popular now though 🙁

If there was an XBox-like controller I could use to play Halo for PC, I'd prefer that than using the keyboard and mouse for sure. Yeah, that Saitek controller works, but the analog thinggies just aren't accurate like the one's used on console systems. Why can't there be a single decent gamepad for PC that emulates console controllers--other than wireless controllers, that is (I HATE wireless--long story short, compatability, functionality, potential intermittent glitching, and batteries)?

 

[bourgeoisdude]

The Gravis Analog Pro was the only real joystick. Made it through all six episodes of Castle Wolfenstein 3D with one. Here's one on eBay.

Honestly I'd prefer the gamepads...never liked joysticks much. Thanks for the link though.

What are those darn analog controller thingies called that come on xbox controllers? Can't think of the dang name of them...calibration software calls them POV hats on my Saitek controller...what are they called? I don't mind those, it's the joysticks I could care less about.

 

[xXDracoXx]

Have you tried playing Freelancer with a joystick? I can imagine that being pretty neat because the combat feels arcade-ish to me.

 

[WarHawkZero]

The lack of well made space sims over the last few years has been really depressing. The last one I really played was Allegiance, and that was probably the most fun I've ever had in an online game ever.

I'm hoping that someone will come out with a massive space flight sim (EVE doesn't count, not by a long shot.) Anyone know of anything like this in development?

Oh, last game that I used my joystick on: Planetside (whenever I hoped in my reaver 😀 )

 

[kigmatzomat]

My Sidewinder Pro is in storage somewhere, along with my BattleZone CD. Hovertanks are the next best thing to a chopper sim and the top hat was an excellent way to issue commands for the RTS/management stuff. Hind was my favorite sim, nothing like a sim that will shatter the rotor blades if you hover in the harmonic zone.

I was never that fond of planes but I always keep an eye out for a new helicopter sim.

 

[gm0n3y]

When I heard about EVE I was really excited about the idea of a Space Sim MMO. Of course then I tried it out and found out that it wasn't a good game at all.

 

[aihyah]

i have a logitech too, and it still works. its a few years old as i only really used it for 1942. it was definetly superior in that kind of game, dog fight against any mouse/kb combo and they were as mismatched an opponent as kb only folks were against wasd+mouse players in fps.

 

[dobby]

joystick and gamepad only really apeal to flight simms, PC games are normally hardcore FPS poeple (like myself) who care about the milliseconds on a multiplayer so gamepad/joystick just are fast enough. and for the unhardcore it not worth the investment.

 

[Anoobis]

Wow. Awesome links to great games!!!! Props out to everyone. All I've got is the same old open source Babylon 5 game I've linked to in the past.

I Found Her!

It's a rather challenging game to play.

 

[erikpurne]

It's like you read my mind. Not only did you address the apparent death of the joystick, but you found what few there currently are and compared them. My onl problem now is that I'm torn between the force feedback Logitech and the regular one.

Thank you, kind sir, for the exact article I was wishing for only a few days ago.

 

[russki]

Apparently you like to post without reading the thread. I will regurgitate what someone else has said - Logitech's joysticks are not the best. Look at Saitek, Thrustmaster, or CH if you have money to burn. (Thursmaster makes the most authentic stick, while CH makes sticks with which most are satisfied. TM has some QC issues...).

By the way, in modern fighters there is no force feedback, so the feature is unnecessary for modern fighter sims (and by extension space sims, too).