The Future of FPS Games

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they must
come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with the
envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice but
the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster and
graphics cards more powerful.
 
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SamuelF566@AOL.COM wrote:
> As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they must
> come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with the
> envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
> that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice but
> the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
> The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster and
> graphics cards more powerful.

Absolutely. Physics has been present for a while, in the form of highly
controlled and simulated physics effects like pulling the bottom block
of a stack out so that the others all fall down. Not true physics,
because every movement is controlled and pre-programmed, but the
impression of physics is there.

The Source engine (and maybe others?) now gives the ability for in-game
"random" physics and that opens up a whole range of possibilities for
games designers. The environment is no longer about cover and hiding
surprises; it is a weapon and a tool in it's own right. It opens up a
whole load of "open-ended" gaming possibilities.

Imagine if Deus Ex, IGI or Far Cry featured the ability to move stuff
around like you can in HL2? IGI, DX and FC are pretty open in the game
design - you can approach your goal in a number of different ways and
change tactics at the drop of a hat. Throw in the ability to interact
more fully with the environment and you have even greater freedom. A
wall is no longer an impassable barrier - you just need to find
something to stack up so you can climb over it.

Personally, I think we will see more of the this kind of game, where
you can have much more freedom to do what you want and the physics can
work out the results on the fly. Games will become much more of a
personal experience that can be replayed in different ways.

But I bet we see a lot of duds for every gem, because this is asking a
lot of the designers.
 
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On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:

> The Source engine (and maybe others?) now gives the ability for in-game
> "random" physics and that opens up a whole range of possibilities for

The Source engine has nothing to do with this. HL2 uses the Havoc engine
which can be added to 3d engines like the Karma engine for Unreal games.

> Imagine if Deus Ex, IGI or Far Cry featured the ability to move stuff
> around like you can in HL2? IGI, DX and FC are pretty open in the game

Far Cry already has a great physics engine, it just didn't celebrate it
like HL2. Without the HL2 gravity gun, not much would have been left...

> wall is no longer an impassable barrier - you just need to find
> something to stack up so you can climb over it.

They already did this in Trespasser a long time ago and it shouldn't be
overdone. After all, how often do we do something like it in real life?

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
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SamuelF566@AOL.COM wrote:
>As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they must
>come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with the
>envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
>that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice but
>the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
> The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster and
>graphics cards more powerful.

WOW YOU'RE A GENISU.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Bateau" wrote
> SamuelF566@AOL.COM wrote:

>>As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they must
>>come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with the
>>envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
>>that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice but
>>the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
>> The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster and
>>graphics cards more powerful.

> WOW YOU'RE A GENISU.

It obviously takes one to know one.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

wonder if there is any massiveo nline fps games. since rpg is heading
towards mmorpg, maybe fps will be mmo-fps ?






Cowly the Game player
Games I support

http://www.gamestotal.com
http://www.spacefederation.net
http://uc.gamestotal.com
http://aw.gamestotal.com
http://gc.gamestotal.com
http://mmorpg.gamestotal.com
http://3700ad.gamestotal.com
http://ballmonster.gamestotal.com
http://free_mmorpg.gamestotal.com
http://strategy_games.gamestotal.com
http://free_strategy_games.gamestotal.com
 
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"Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>SamuelF566@AOL.COM wrote:
>> As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they must
>> come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with the
>> envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
>> that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice but
>> the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
>> The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster and
>> graphics cards more powerful.
>
>Absolutely. Physics has been present for a while, in the form of highly
>controlled and simulated physics effects like pulling the bottom block
>of a stack out so that the others all fall down. Not true physics,
>because every movement is controlled and pre-programmed, but the
>impression of physics is there.
>
>The Source engine (and maybe others?) now gives the ability for in-game
>"random" physics and that opens up a whole range of possibilities for
>games designers. The environment is no longer about cover and hiding
>surprises; it is a weapon and a tool in it's own right. It opens up a
>whole load of "open-ended" gaming possibilities.
>
>Imagine if Deus Ex, IGI or Far Cry featured the ability to move stuff
>around like you can in HL2? IGI, DX and FC are pretty open in the game
>design - you can approach your goal in a number of different ways and
>change tactics at the drop of a hat. Throw in the ability to interact
>more fully with the environment and you have even greater freedom. A
>wall is no longer an impassable barrier - you just need to find
>something to stack up so you can climb over it.

Yeah imagine if Deus Ex had crates you could push around and stack up to
get over obstacles! It could have a special augmentation that let you
move heavier crates!

>Personally, I think we will see more of the this kind of game, where
>you can have much more freedom to do what you want and the physics can
>work out the results on the fly. Games will become much more of a
>personal experience that can be replayed in different ways.
>
>But I bet we see a lot of duds for every gem, because this is asking a
>lot of the designers.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

HalfLife 2 is a pile of POO POO. Whats so good abour a game thats the
same as any other FPS ?
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Chadwick wrote:
> SamuelF566@AOL.COM wrote:
> > As we saw with Half Life 2 , Developers are realizing that they
must
> > come up with different ideas so the player can interact more with
the
> > envirement. The Gravity Gun and the real life physics is what makes
> > that game stand out. Having nice graphics like in Far Cry is nice
but
> > the rest is just shooting like any other Game.
> > The future of gaming will be interesting as Computers get faster
and
> > graphics cards more powerful.
>
> Absolutely. Physics has been present for a while, in the form of
highly
> controlled and simulated physics effects like pulling the bottom
block
> of a stack out so that the others all fall down. Not true physics,
> because every movement is controlled and pre-programmed, but the
> impression of physics is there.
>
> The Source engine (and maybe others?) now gives the ability for
in-game
> "random" physics and that opens up a whole range of possibilities for
> games designers. The environment is no longer about cover and hiding
> surprises; it is a weapon and a tool in it's own right. It opens up a
> whole load of "open-ended" gaming possibilities.
>
> Imagine if Deus Ex, IGI or Far Cry featured the ability to move stuff
> around like you can in HL2? IGI, DX and FC are pretty open in the
game
> design - you can approach your goal in a number of different ways and
> change tactics at the drop of a hat. Throw in the ability to interact
> more fully with the environment and you have even greater freedom. A
> wall is no longer an impassable barrier - you just need to find
> something to stack up so you can climb over it.
>
> Personally, I think we will see more of the this kind of game, where
> you can have much more freedom to do what you want and the physics
can
> work out the results on the fly. Games will become much more of a
> personal experience that can be replayed in different ways.
>
> But I bet we see a lot of duds for every gem, because this is asking
a
> lot of the designers.

When I played Far Cry I was amazed at the Graphics.. Almost made you
feel like you were on an island. As I got further into the game I
realized Far cry not only had great graphics, but had the best
qualities of other games such as vehicles like in Halo, Great creatures
and scary indoor levels like Doom 3 but you can now see stuff. The only
negative about far cry is even on the easy level , I can't see someone
finishing some levels because there are so many enemies. You really
have to plan your attacks carefully in this game. I put the game in God
Mode half way through to just see the entire game.
 
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On 7 Apr 2005 23:43:24 -0700, step_y@yahoo.com wrote:

>wonder if there is any massiveo nline fps games.

Planetside.
 
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Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>
> > The Source engine (and maybe others?) now gives the ability for
in-game
> > "random" physics and that opens up a whole range of possibilities
for
>
> The Source engine has nothing to do with this. HL2 uses the Havoc
engine
> which can be added to 3d engines like the Karma engine for Unreal
games.

Sorry, my bad! But you know what I mean.


>
> > Imagine if Deus Ex, IGI or Far Cry featured the ability to move
stuff
> > around like you can in HL2? IGI, DX and FC are pretty open in the
game
>
> Far Cry already has a great physics engine, it just didn't celebrate
it
> like HL2. Without the HL2 gravity gun, not much would have been
left...

Yeah, Far Cry uses Havok, but it doesn't make much use of it in the
actual game. The boats rock on the sea and the trucks roll downhill,
but that's pretty much it. HL2 allows you to do stuff with the
environment. You can build things and use the wreckage lying around you
as a weapon, as defence, to make a new path etc. OK, Valve got a little
obsessed by the see-saw, but at least they did build that kind of
environmental interaction ionto the game. This gives a lot of
possibilities for non-combat action (Garry's Mod makes theb point
rather more graphically) and I look forward to seeing more of this
stuff in games.

> > wall is no longer an impassable barrier - you just need to find
> > something to stack up so you can climb over it.
>
> They already did this in Trespasser a long time ago and it shouldn't
be
> overdone. After all, how often do we do something like it in real
life?
In real-life, I'm not generally fighting off aliens, sneaking into a
missile base or chasing terrorists, so it's difficult to answer. But if
I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more 'alternative'
route to avoid or escape detection.
 
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knight37 wrote:
> Michael Cecil <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:eplk511180khmhpd9sol4om75kml41ronp@4ax.com:
>
> > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:46:30 +0200, Werner Spahl
> > <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
> >>
> >>> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
> >>> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.
> >>
> >>My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative
route,
> >>even using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with
> >>riddles you had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to
use
> >>it as a weapon, and that only worked well if the level provided
> >>suitable ammunition...
> >
> > It would have been much more fun if they had just presented you
with a
> > large city to explore while fighting the alien menace where you had
> > many routes and options to accomplish the various tasks needed to
> > proceed.
> >
>
> Nah. I like having the developers build out a puzzle and me solving
it,
> and I like it to be relatively linear, so I know I'm making progress.
And
> that makes the story better, since the story writers know what you're

> going to do in what order so they can make the story flow better.

I';m with Werner and Michael (to an extent) on this one. My perfect
game would have the freedom of Far Cry, Deus Ex or IGI, with the
"interactive environment" of HL2. If you're having trouble going one
way you can change tactics and try a different approach. Equally, the
enemy AI will be free tor eact as appropriate and they will move around
in response to your presence (eg in Far Cry you can often lure soldiers
- or they will chase you - some way from starting positions).
The downside of this is that you may lose the scripted sequences and
set pieces that make HL(2) so good. The map designers cannot predict
how you will approach a location or that key NPCs will still be in the
area.
It would require careful level design to create bottlenecks where the
player and NPCs are forced to be present all together for a set piece.
There is a danger that it could look too contrived.
But if it could be done well....
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:

> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.

My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative route, even
using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with riddles you
had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to use it as a weapon,
and that only worked well if the level provided suitable ammunition...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:46:30 +0200, Werner Spahl
<spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>
>> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
>> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.
>
>My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative route, even
>using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with riddles you
>had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to use it as a weapon,
>and that only worked well if the level provided suitable ammunition...

It would have been much more fun if they had just presented you with a
large city to explore while fighting the alien menace where you had many
routes and options to accomplish the various tasks needed to proceed.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner is dead right on this one. The reason the buggy and airboat are
basically indestructible is because the linear gameplay and fixed plot
demand they never be destroyed. Ditto for Barney and Alyx on certain levels,
they're basically indestructible as well. The original Half Life didn't seem
as linear although it probably was.

--
Remove nospam to email
"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0504111242230.25727@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>
>> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
>> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.
>
> My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative route, even
> using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with riddles you
> had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to use it as a weapon,
> and that only worked well if the level provided suitable ammunition...
>
> --
> Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
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Then we would still be waiting for Half Life 2 to go gold.

--
Remove nospam to email
"Michael Cecil" <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eplk511180khmhpd9sol4om75kml41ronp@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:46:30 +0200, Werner Spahl
> <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>>
>>> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
>>> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.
>>
>>My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative route, even
>>using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with riddles you
>>had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to use it as a weapon,
>>and that only worked well if the level provided suitable ammunition...
>
> It would have been much more fun if they had just presented you with a
> large city to explore while fighting the alien menace where you had many
> routes and options to accomplish the various tasks needed to proceed.
>
> --
> Michael Cecil
> http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
> http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
 
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Michael Cecil <macecil@comcast.net> wrote in
news:eplk511180khmhpd9sol4om75kml41ronp@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:46:30 +0200, Werner Spahl
> <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Chadwick wrote:
>>
>>> But if I were I'd probably appreciate the option to take a more
>>> 'alternative' route to avoid or escape detection.
>>
>>My problem with HL2 is that they never gave you an alternative route,
>>even using the gravity gun. HL2 was always completely linear with
>>riddles you had to solve with the gun to continue or the option to use
>>it as a weapon, and that only worked well if the level provided
>>suitable ammunition...
>
> It would have been much more fun if they had just presented you with a
> large city to explore while fighting the alien menace where you had
> many routes and options to accomplish the various tasks needed to
> proceed.
>

Nah. I like having the developers build out a puzzle and me solving it,
and I like it to be relatively linear, so I know I'm making progress. And
that makes the story better, since the story writers know what you're
going to do in what order so they can make the story flow better.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:28:05 -0700, "Doug" <pigdos@nospamcharter.net>
wrote:

>Then we would still be waiting for Half Life 2 to go gold.

Better that than a game that has zero replay value. :)

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, knight37 wrote:

> Nah. I like having the developers build out a puzzle and me solving it,
> and I like it to be relatively linear, so I know I'm making progress. And
> that makes the story better, since the story writers know what you're
> going to do in what order so they can make the story flow better.

Principally I agree with you, except there wasn't much of a story in HL2
to begin with and lots of modern games from NOLF and Thief to FarCry and
VTM:Bloodlines managed to provide alternative routes now and then without
sacrificing the story and therefore did hide their linearity much better.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
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Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0504111541070.25727@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de:

> Principally I agree with you, except there wasn't much of a story in
> HL2 to begin with and lots of modern games from NOLF and Thief to
> FarCry and VTM:Bloodlines managed to provide alternative routes now
> and then without sacrificing the story and therefore did hide their
> linearity much better.

Guess I'm okay with non-linear as long as it doesn't sacrifice story.
BTW, I disagre about HL2 I thought it had a pretty good story.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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Werner Spahl wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, knight37 wrote:
>
>
>>Nah. I like having the developers build out a puzzle and me solving it,
>>and I like it to be relatively linear, so I know I'm making progress. And
>>that makes the story better, since the story writers know what you're
>>going to do in what order so they can make the story flow better.
>
> Principally I agree with you, except there wasn't much of a story in HL2
> to begin with and lots of modern games from NOLF and Thief to FarCry and
> VTM:Bloodlines managed to provide alternative routes now and then without
> sacrificing the story and therefore did hide their linearity much better.

As far as __story_ goes, there aren't many computer games that could
match a decent piece of fiction. That's sort of to be expected, since we
play the games to _play games_; if we wanted compelling fiction, we'd
read Saul Bellow. (There aren't even many movies which match written
fiction, so this isn't exactly a snipe at games.)

So a computer game, when it has a story, more or less uses it to provide
situations where we can do game-like things, like shooting, sneaking,
trading credits, hunting enemies, and the like. Usually, games tend to
be "linear" in the sense that the story follows one distinct path. The
map levels follow one another in a distinct order; "solving" the maps
may have a narrow solution (Half-Life) or several solutions (Deus Ex),
but it's still a single "path."

I suspect that one possibility for the future of gaming would be stories
which really _do_ branch off, with some decisions revealing whole maps
which may not be revealed with other decisions... and game endings which
really do vary, based on decisions made by the player. The Deus Ex games
were a good start on this.

And the upcoming Unreal engine, with its capability of swapping in level
data on the fly for bigger worlds, offers some really neat
possibilities. If you make one choice, Region A could be a happy, living
city... but make another, and it's a barren wasteland.

This could lend itself to games in which you're never sure you've
"completed." You may play through some levels, accomplish some kind of
goal....but you play it again, doing things differently, and find an
entirely different ending, or several maps you didn't reach before.
 
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On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, knight37 wrote:

> Guess I'm okay with non-linear as long as it doesn't sacrifice story.
> BTW, I disagre about HL2 I thought it had a pretty good story.

Hmmm, then please explain it to me. As far as I remember it was like this:
You move from location A to location B without hardly knowing why.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
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Werner Spahl <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0504111651000.25727@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de:

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, knight37 wrote:
>
>> Guess I'm okay with non-linear as long as it doesn't sacrifice story.
>> BTW, I disagre about HL2 I thought it had a pretty good story.
>
> Hmmm, then please explain it to me. As far as I remember it was like
> this: You move from location A to location B without hardly knowing
> why.

That is what was good about it, you didn't know all the answers, so you
were constantly learning bits and pieces as to why all of it was
happening.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com
Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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Sometimes it did seem that Half Life 2 was just a bunch of tech demos strung
together by the weakest plot imaginable. We had boat maps, then buggy maps,
zombie-maps, then monster-ally maps, then human-ally maps and then the end.
The only thing we didn't have were any airborne/flying maps.

--
Remove nospam to email
"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0504111651000.25727@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, knight37 wrote:
>
>> Guess I'm okay with non-linear as long as it doesn't sacrifice story.
>> BTW, I disagre about HL2 I thought it had a pretty good story.
>
> Hmmm, then please explain it to me. As far as I remember it was like this:
> You move from location A to location B without hardly knowing why.
>
> --
> Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Werner Spahl wrote:

> Hmmm, then please explain it to me. As far as I remember it was like
> this: You move from location A to location B without hardly knowing
> why.

If you pay attention to the dialoge you can make sense out of the story.
This is all done through the point-of-view of Gordan, not someone playing a
video game. Gordan doesn't know what is going on either, even though
everyone assumes he does. G-man is manipulating Gordan the whole time. He
needed him to get to Nova Prospekt to spark the human rebellion. Come to
think of it, I wonder if the G-man is responsible for the rebellion against
the Empire in Star Wars.
 
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